CT What motivates the Storm Troopers to fight? What's their cause?

It's fun to see the Motti-choking scene from Motti's point of view.

 

I bet SHE'S got some interesting theories on "clone psycho-sexuality"....

 

One of my favourite scenes in all the films! You're doing a great job of selling this novel to me.

If she turns up round my way doing a lecture tour on the subject, I'll be purchasing front row seats, let's put it that way.​

 

It also hints that Vader had zero problem with the destruction of Alderaan:

Death Star
"I think it's time we demonstrated the full power of this station," Tarkin said. He looked back at his officer. "Set your course for Alderaan."
The man mumbled something and left, but Tarkin was already thinking ahead. If Princess Leia was a thorn in the Empire's side, then Alderaan was a forest of thorns.
Well, it was time to purge that forest. With fire.
Tagge started to say something but apparently thought better of it. Tarkin smiled almost benignly and said, "I understand your concerns, General. Rest assured I've spoken with Emperor Palpatine recently about demonstrating his battle station's range and strength. He has assured me that I have full rein to do so." He looked at Vader. "You disapprove, Lord Vader?"
"Not at all, Governor."

 

LOL... I'm sure you'll be fighting for a spot...

 

Much of the Imperial Army were clones, but the conscripted soldiers may have been coerced, bribed, threatened, etc. Other than that, they may just like the armor.

 

Getting back to the topic - let's look at it from a modern day perspective on why people join the armed services in their home countries... it's not for "evil-doing", it's to help protect their homeland, help secure their way of life and the ones they love. Why would it be different for any of the non-clones who enlist in the Imperial Navy? Albeit, there are still clones fighting all over, clones that have been genetically engineered to fight and die for the Republic/Empire.... however for the non-clones it's very plausible that they enlist for the same reasons someone would today.

To assume that the entire Imperial armed services are all evil because the head is evil I think would be erroneous. Although authoritarian, could it be that the Empire provided some good (limited) to the galaxy in the forms of security, order, perhaps humanitarian aide? After all, what's an empire if your subjects are all dying, and the ones left hate and despise you. Palpatine spent years building the facade of benevolence to secure his appointment as Chancellor. Now that he is Emperor, would it be fair to say that attempts are made to continue the popularity contest by providing for the citizens of the Empire? Don't get me wrong - I'm not calling him a saint, but suggesting that an Empire that consists of an entire population against it's ruler will not stand for the 20 or so years that the Empire did... meaning that some benevolent "bones" were tossed the populations' way...

 

Hand of Thrawn dwells on this (infighting between various races that have been at odds for generations, kept to a minimum by the Empire, is now flaring up). Survivor's Quest also mentions that, on a purely practical level, at least, the Empire was a "vast improvement on the bloated and bribe-driven bureaucracy that preceded it"

The Essential Guide to Warfare also goes out of the way to mention how much good the Imperial Navy was doing, in its early days, vs pirates.

In the A New Hope novelization, Biggs's comments on Tatooine are about the Empire having become corrupt, rather than always having been so:

"You should have heard some of the stories I've heard, Luke, learned of some of the outrages I've learned about. The Empire may have been great and beautiful once, but the people in charge now - " He shook his head sharply. "It's rotten, Luke, rotten."

 

Wow that's a rosy list. How about some more practical reasons?

Most of the people I knew who joined the army did so because they had no hope of getting a decent job. They had little in the way of qualifications, very little in the way of skills - and the thought of becoming a killer for money wasn't enough to put them off. That is, they were fairly violent before they signed up to shoot people for a living.

Of the officers I've known, most of them had very romantic ideas about glory, king and country and all that. Perhaps your 'non evil-doing' reasons apply to them, but these people were also thinking of themselves and their future careers. Anyone who claims to be doing anything for purely selfless reasons is either deluded, simple or lying.

This I do agree with.

 

LOL... You're probably right - alittle too rosy, however I would encourage you to ask any of our veterans from WWII on what their motivation was for enlisting. I think you'd find that my comments above would be valid with them.

I also think my comments are still valid regarding the fact that people who enlist in the armed forces do so not with the intent of doing evil... more like, "gonna go kick some bad-guy a$$.... "

 

V-2, I spent 20 years in uniform, and I'd estimate about 1% of my friends matched your description. That "rosy" picture that Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan describes is what the other 99% of us were like.

 

Thank you for your service Sarge!! Although I've never served, many in my family have and as a result I've developed nothing but respect for our armed services...

 

There's a lot of novels that take the view that a sensible military goes to huge lengths to weed out those lacking in restraint, or dangerously violent, before they get out of basic training.

Starship Troopers springs to mind.

Whether the Empire goes to similar lengths though, we don't know.

 

What percent of the armed forces consists of your friends? Even if 100% of your friends don't match @v-2's description, I doubt it's a sample size big enough to be statistically relevant.

 

Unless V-2 spent 20 years in uniform, I bet my sample size is bigger than his.

 

Did anybody already say: Their fanatic loyalty to the Emperor and fear of punishment?

 

Roaming into the EU here, but Legacy: Noob does a great job of showing how the stormtroopers operate in an Empire they know is ruled by the evil Sith. They are still loyal to the throne, or Empire in general, and simply must take the orders that come from above them.

 

True, but this fact does not elivate your own experience to a level of statistical signficance.

I don't claim to know what the truth of the matter is, I just hate when points in an argument are defended with projections based on generalities.

 

Observations, not generalities.

 

What population size would Sarge have to quote to satisfy your statistical significance? And BTW, polling a smaller sample size and then extrapolating to a larger population is exaclty what is done in every other poll, from election exit polls to Nielsen ratings, etc...

 

Sorry for the tone of my last post, I must have been in a bad mood. It's just that I find a lot of the fawning over soldiers quite tasteless. I realise how tactless I was being, and how unpopular my views are. I apologise to anyone I've offended.

Now prepare for more of the same.

Sarge - well, based on what you've said and your sig, you and I are probably not going to see eye to eye on a number of issues. I'll just say that the fact that I've never killed anyone for money (nor worked for an organisation which enables such activity) doesn't necessarily make my anecdotal evidence less valuable than someone who has.

I've known some really nice guys to join up and I've known some terrible ****s to join up. They were all up for a fight, some more than others, some requiring only minuscule provocation to send someone to hospital. I grew up in a barracks town, believe me, the squaddies were a nightmare out of uniform.

Soldiers are of course not all sadistic brainwashed killing machines. I've even known a couple of idealistic whimsical types; one has gone on to do much nobler things for humanity (which is not uncommon, the humanitarian life seems to appeal to a lot of military types), the other worked in bomb disposal and worked only to save lives - they're a division of the armed forces who I'd agree deserve universal respect (though you still have to question their sanity).

I know what Iron_lord said about weeding out violent types is true... From a certain point of view... When I say violent, I don't mean so unhinged as to be useless in war, I mean someone for whom violence is perceived as socially acceptable behaviour.

Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan - evil isn't a very useful term to me when talking about real life, but the desire to "go kick some bad-guy a$$" doesn't seem particularly nice to me. Desiring (or at least consenting) to inflict violence on strangers in exchange for money isn't what I'd classify as goodly or noble. I know that some people think it is - especially when it's fighting for the trivial goals of the rulers of the country they happen to be born in. I accept that some act on a sense of nationalistic/tribal altruism and don't care about the money. I personally don't accept that reasoning as morally or logically valid.

Regarding the talk of anecdotal evidence and talk of stats, and desperately trying to tie this rant up with the thread, the working class and the disenfranchised have always been used as cannon fodder in wars. It's a clichéd truism in the real world, and a well established narrative trope in fiction. If you've not got great prospects, if you're capable, young and fit enough, you can always catch bullets for a living.

 

Even though I do not agree with your viewpoints, I wanted to thank you V-2 for taking the time to post a more comprehensive look at your position. In the end, I hope this is what these boards are here for is generating and discussing opinions like ours... Although it's online and not face to face, it still requires courage to stick to your convictions, popular or not.

That being said, I wish we lived in a utopia society where standing military forces were unnecessary... however that is not the case. And that being said, men and women across the land sign up voluntarily (at least in the US) to serve, and I'm thankful they do. It's not just about kicking some "bad guy a$$" (probably not my best analogy)... but it's about securing our homelands... protecting our loved ones... and fighting for causes we feel are noble and just. Trivializing the efforts of our armed forces to actions that are solely "to inflict violence on strangers in exchange for money..." is a gross misconception. I realize you make efforts above to call out specific units you feel are worthy, but that type of generalization in inaccurate and dangerous in my opinion.

 

They're paid soldiers. I'm sure many of them have various reasons for fighting on behalf of the Empire.

 

Given Luke was about to join the Imperial Academy...

Given the Republic transformed into the Galactic Empire...

Given Imperial Troopers patrol the streets of Tatooine and keeping them clean of slavery, forcing the criminals to operate out in the plains or live in fear of being discovered...

Given the Empire kept order and maintained peace

Given all of this, I wonder if the Empire were actually indeed the good guys! I mean I heard someone question after watching ROTS and then going to ANH, as the Stormtroopers board, wait are they the good guys?

It's all a point of view I guess. Given that the Galaxy at large appears to be at peace, one wonders.

Also the following Rebel propaganda and the lack of full scale rebellion on a large scale would suggest the Imperials were more popular than the corrupt Mothma and her cohorts would have us believe.

It's a nice poster though

 

They might believe in the empire and they would also be getting paid so those are two pretty good causes.