Discussion What needs to happen to make you say, "The ST was as good as the OT"?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by boomx2sjk, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I've always felt (even before the PT) that Star Wars is bigger than a sum of its parts. 1 - 6 is still a more interesting and epic story than just 4-6. I think all six have similar flaws (especially in the acting and writing department) even if they stand out more in the prequels. So after Arndt was hired, I said I was hoping we'd finally have high quality dialogue to match the epic story and visuals.
  2. TheMasterOfSoresu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 1
    I definitely agree with you.

    When I was younger, I used to think that 'Sifo-Dyas' was simply the way the people of Kamino pronounced 'Sidious'. It confused me.
  3. The Crippled God Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 1
    I don't think any movie can be as good as Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back simply because they are not those two movies. They have been with me so long, I have lived and loved these films so long, they always hold a special place in my brain that cannot be replaced. I do believe there is a good chance they can be equal to, or better, than the prequels. Since we don't know anything it's hard to say.
    To be satisfied, I'd want Star Wars movies that veer away from the "rhyming" of George Lucas - more new stuff, instead of the same in different colors. As an example, I do not need to see bounty hunters again. They are everywhere really. Perhaps get a better look at assassins, or smugglers, or academy cadets, or engineers, or droid mechanics, or other professions. Now it feels like there are bounty hunters everywhere in the galaxy. Another example would be how the films "mirror" each other - I don't need per se a love story just because the two other trilogies have it; I don't have to see Jedi Knights or Sith Lords; I'd be fine with a Star Wars movie without Tatooine; and I wouldn't mind seeing a Star Wars movie following a different pattern. In other words, I'd like the new films to be less similar to the six existing films, yet they should definitely be set in that galaxy far, far away... kind of hard to explain, this is.

    Hey! The Science of Star Wars is on TV. Antony Daniels! Talking about C-3P0. I'm taking this as a sign. Yes, the droids will be back! :)

    Also have to agree with those who say they should have the look and feel of the original trilogy, especially when it comes to set dressing: Look how "used" and thereby realistic the environments in the originals seem - the interior of the Millenium Falcon being the prime example, with piping and blinking lights and gratings and thingamabobs everywhere, as opposed to, say the Queen's starship that never feels like anything but a set. An empty set, at that. In fact I feel that the Lars homestead kind of breaks the style of Attack of the Clones because it looks real.. :D
    Last edited by The Crippled God, Nov 27, 2012
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  4. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I love the PT, but I have a feeling that for all the the things people complain about, at the heart of their disappointment with the PT lies the fact that a lot of the character interaction just didn't feel quite as true as it did in the OT. I could list the reasons why I think this is (some being quite intentional and some being less so), but this isn't really the thread for that discussion. The point is, if the characters in the ST feel like real people who are in the same room with each other, I honestly believe that most people will accept it much more readily than they accepted the PT.
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  5. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    Why do we have to focus on it just being as good as the OT? Seems like you're just bounding yourself to that quality, however good. Let's make the ST even better than the OT. Let's make Nolan's Batman films look like Twilight with the ST.
    Last edited by KED12345, Nov 27, 2012
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  6. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    That's a tall order... but possible I guess. We'd have to play hard and fast with the universe to get that good...
  7. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    Keep it closer to ROTS and far away from the TPM ..... keep romance to a minimum .... no stupid alien characters ....lots of action ....bring back the big 3....make it fun & serious at the same time .....don't try & copy the empire strikes back .....
  8. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    I don't know. I still think GL gets criticized way too much for stuff. Like his dialogue in Ep IV, he wrote, was fine and had a lot of classic lines that we all know.

    "Would somone get this walking carpet out of my way?!" That's pure gold!
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  9. Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 1
    The reason why Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy is so good is that it seems so grounded in reality beyond the fact that Batman is rich, has toys, and the villains are all super schemers. Everything else is grounded entirely in reality. If the same approach came to Star Wars it would lose some of its charm because Star Wars has always been more fantastic and less grounded in reality.

    Light sabers
    special powers
    explosions in space
    hyperspace jumps
    creatures in rubber masks
    Dumb stormtroopers falling for stupid tricks
    Huge harry creatures that are a member of the gang
    Regularly cutting back to the misadventures of two odd couple androids

    I love what Nolan did to the Batman franchise but the same approach would really change Star Wars in a way that would make it less unique.

    The Original Trilogy shares more in common with the revamped Star Trek, the upcoming Hobbit, or Firefly. I think the key is to balance moments of seriousness, tension, and suspense with some banter, and adventurous fun. The key word there is fun. With a New Hope we, the audience, took our first jump to hyperspace in a "piece of junk." We learned about the force. We saw what it took to be a Jedi. When you're learning new things in a story you feel more apart of it. In the prequels we knew most of everything and were just filling in blanks and watching stuff play out.

    They just need to bring back that sense of adventure and charm again because one of the problems with the prequels was that there literally wasn't ANY group dynamics. In TPM QGJ and OW were master apprentice. In CW, OW and AS were master apprentice. It wasn't until ROTS when Hayden was old enough to joke around that he and Ewan started developing a little chemistry and friendship on screen but it wasn't anywhere close to the team that came together on the OT.

    Team dynamics will be huge. No more just squeaky clean Jedis. They need a more interesting group with unique advantages and disadvantages.
    Last edited by Ender_and_Bean, Nov 27, 2012
  10. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    Interesting question. I guess I want a sense of the magic. It is a little hard to describe. Dialogue has always been rough in Star Wars and things of that nature. For me there was just something magical about the OT that was more than just my nostalgia. I want the spirit of it to come back. It is still there in the PT just buried under some bad acting. I want a cast that can have fun with the films rather than view it as their big break. I want the adventurous gritty nature that the OT had. I want to be put back in a galaxy that looks old and used. I want it to maintain the spirit of Star Wars, but be willing to be different. I think the problem up to this point is they have tried to imitate a product they already created, and in that process they have lost some of the spirit to its originality.

    It reminds me a little of an interview I read about the actor who plays Gollum in Lord of the Rings. He said it was difficult to do the Hobbit because he found himself merely doing an imitation of his character rather than trying to breath new life and purpose into him. I think that right there is the biggest thing for this trilogy. Don't try and be like something you already created. Keep its spirit and move forward. I realize all of this is very vague, but that is mostly because aside from Hayden Christensen, my issues with the PT are rather few. What was really missing was something equally as vague to describe.
  11. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I actually don't mind corny dialogue in Star Wars as it imitates the old school serials. However, it can still get stilted at times, even in the OT. It doesn't bother me, but with the professional writers on board, why not strive for better?
  12. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    The "straight line" marching occurs to show the "factory line" nature of the droid army as opposed to the more organic and (relatively) independent nature of the clones. And sure as heck doesn't happen "linear" once the Clones arrive on Geonosis. It is however, meant to be kind of that way since both armies are meant to represent "perfect soldiers" who just follow orders, as opposed to the Rebels in the OT.

    One of the things superior in the PT to the OT is the ground based battles.

    However, I do hope that the ST does pit an army of "regular" John Q. citizens (of of all "New Republic" races) against a similar type army of whatever the threat is in more regular battles were the soldiers don't just blindly follow orders and are far from perfect soldiers.

    Hopefully, the director will look at a few WWI and WWII from the BBC and Channel 4 for inspiration.

    I don't see how any of the ships the PT and the OT are any different to each other.

    The reason why the Falcon is so special is because of how Han feels about it - to most beings in the Galaxy they are just machines. I believe Lucas purposely avoided making another "personal" ship just to emphasize that the Falcon IS special.

    Just like the droids. Nobody in Star Wars treats their droids the way Anakin and Luke do - as more than machines. That is why they are special.

    I don't think there will be a special ship in the ST other than the Falcon.

    In another thread, I say I hope that the kids have a droid of their own, but he should be expendable - not to them - but he should get destroyed at some point.

    I disagree. Why should Sifo-Dyas' life story (I exaggerate to make a point) be looked into? Not every character in a story needs to have an explanation or there backstory to be given in detail (unless Tolkien is writing it ;) )

    By this thinking, the "bounty hunter on Ord Mantell" needs much more of an explanation in TESB.

    I don't think there is any evidence in the "Pre-Special Edition Trilogy" to show that Han either fears or respects Jabba at all.

    Yes, he is up to his neck in trouble with Jabba, but he isn't exactly hiding from him in ANH. He is hanging out in Jabba's neighbourhood in fact.

    The only thing that concerns him in TESB is that Jabba's money has every scumbag gunning for him and in ROTJ, he blind and can't help Leia.
    Last edited by ThatWanFromStewjon, Nov 27, 2012
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  13. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    Because then it wouldn't match the other movies.
  14. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    Not for everyone.

    There are plenty of fans here for whom the PT is their first, and they judge the rest by those.

    It will be the same for those who become fans after the ST.
  15. Pro Scoundrel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    I meant was made first, but you're right, there are those who saw the prequels first, though I've never met anyone who prefers them to the OT. I'd be interested to hear from fans that do though.
  16. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    They abound - just like does who like both equally.
  17. Pro Scoundrel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    Interesting. I guess that kinda makes this thread redundant if not everyone agrees that the OT is the standard.
  18. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    Not really, since the OP considers the OT to be the "standard".

    The validity of the topic itself is a different matter.
    Last edited by ThatWanFromStewjon, Nov 27, 2012
  19. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    What needs to happen to make you say, "The ST was as good as the OT"?

    Answer: It needs to be released in 1977. So that it is completely new and resembles little else ever put to film in its scope, ensuring that it can be hyped up to godlike status in our minds over the course of 3 decades, making it absolutely impossible for anything (even of possibly equal or greater quality) to ever compare or contrast with. If they could somehow release the ST in that fan favorite "1977" Format, I think it will be even better than that horrible Episode 18 that came after it.
  20. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Good one. Add to that: we all need to be 7 years old again.
  21. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    Forget 3D... they better hand out "Nostalgia-Vision" glasses...
  22. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    Show me Jedi Master Luke Skywalker at the height of his power......that's all.
  23. battlefrontboy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 1
    It needs to be deep. I would go for depth over fireworks. Half of ANH took place in a desert, and the best scenes in ESB took place in a swamp. I think the writer should take his time with the characters and make some powerful statements about life and society.
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  24. Spam Bot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2012
    star 1
    For me, where the ST will rise of fall is in its plot. The Star Wars spirit (or tone) is there, in the OT. Once the right director gets the right rhythm, it can be translated into these new films. But what I'm worried about is that the story will be an uninspired excuse to go adventuring in that universe again; a flimsy pretence to have space battles and lightsabre duels amidst a banal backdrop of the trite absolute good vs absolute evil parable. That kind of story is dated and simply won't resonate with audiences and diehard fans alike like the OT managed to in its time.

    I know that Lucas has damaged his credibility (almost irreparably), but he did give us the OT. I see him as an excellent "big picture" kind of guy, but woefully inadequate when it comes to nuances or details. In saying all that, consider what Lucas said about the ST some time ago (sourced from Wikipedia):

    The main theme of the trilogy would be moral and philosophical problems, such as the necessity for moral choices and the wisdom needed to distinguish right from wrong, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned (Lucas in 1983 and 1989)

    If the ST preserves this theme, I think that it could lead to an excellent series. I personally like complex stories rife with moral ambiguity, and think that it is the natural evolution of the saga from where we've been. IMO, the story has outgrown the notion of moral absolutism. Or at least not take that perspective for granted.
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  25. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    I just can't do it. TPM and ATOC are just to hard for me to watch. I can watch ROTS, but can't watch it all in one sitting. And I was 13 when TPM came out. OT gets a viewing a least once a year for me. If not the whole trilogy than most definitly ESB.

    As for what the ST will have to do to be as good or better than the OT. Have a good story, with good dialogue, interesting characters, good acting, and good action.