Saga What "new threats" might appear in SW one day, and still feel like SW?

There's this intentionally bad/troll theory

Spoiler

I was thinking about a certain scene in Episode VIII: The Last Jedi that a lot of people seem to be heavily criticizing or just generally dislike - very early on in a space battle, Leia's ship takes a hit to the bridge, and she is thrown out into the vacuum of space. Using the Force, she flies back inside and enters a coma for a few days

People have stated numerous reasons for disilking this scene - perhaps they think it's a dumb idea, or it just looked silly, or even with SW's generally poor grasp on science, it's just too much. I contend it was very much intentional, and that last point is important. What if there's a reason it's so far removed from real life science, even for SW's past standards? This is something that can get us to question the very nature of the SW universe itself, and I believe it may be hinting at something that is coming - a threat far greater than the Sith, a superweapon, or any empire could be, and the hints have been there for four decades and counting

Let's start at the beginning of the timeline. Throughout the prequel trilogy, it actually does a fairly decent job of sticking to real life science, even with the Force to hand wave some things away, such as Jedi characters falling extreme heights and landing uninjured. They even accurately use the logic of a star system's gravity affecting other stars when looking for a planet that was deleted from the Jedi archives. But let's get specific

Throughout TPM, the science is mostly accurate. But things get a little shakier in AOTC. We can use suspension of disbelief when a Jedi character falls a great distance without harm, such as Anakin when he jumps down to the assassin's speeder on Coruscant. But what about Padme? For a non-Force-sensitive character, she sure takes a beating in this one. Most notably, she falls out of a clone gunship a good distance and tumbles away, losing consciousness for a few minutes. She wakes up a bit dazed, but she has an unnaturally fast recovery, and she doesn't seem to be in the slightest pain. No broken bones, no bruises, not even a limp. Seems rather strange, does it not? Now onto Revenge of the Sith. Again, mostly fine, and things like the nonsense gravity in the Invisible Hand during its fall can be forgiven because science fiction, but the majority of characters who see action in this one are Jedi, or at least empowered beings like Grievous, so we can excuse things - until we get to Mustafar. During the climactic duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan, the shielding around the mining facility is deactivated, so they have no protection from the lava - lava that, might I note, they are often mere inches from for extended periods of time. The average temperature of lava is close to 1000 C/1800 F. Just being in proximity to it would be enough to catch on fire, and certainly not comfortable enough to have a duel by. But what do Anakin and Obi-Wan have to show? Their outfits have a few scorch marks and they're mildly sweating. Just a detail to make it look better to us, the audience? Or greater purpose?

Now on to the original trilogy. Let's examine the Death Star's destruction of Alderaan. Within seconds, it goes from an Earth-like planet to nothing but some fire and an asteroid field. Aside from the sound and fire in space (we'll get back to that later), that is not how a planet would react even to the unimaginably high amount of force that would be necessary to effect such a destruction. There are videos showing that the Death Star has more than enough, in fact, too much, power to achieve what's necessary to destroy a planet, but for such a large object to leave only an asteroid field in the approximate same area in space? It makes an astronomer want to cry. Now think to the battle of Hoth in TESB. Hoth is an ice planet, which gives us some insight to its composition, and going by official numbers, it's significantly smaller than Earth. With a smaller size is suggested a lower mass, and with an icy composition, a lower density. Given the calculations, Hoth's gravity could be as low as 30% that of Earth's, but no more than around half of Earth's gravity. Yet characters and tanks are moving around and falling normally. A result of the fact the movie was filmed on Earth? Or intentional? Furthermore, remember to when the Falcon lands in an asteroid. Han, Leia, and Chewie go outside to investigate the mynocks and eventual strange rumbling, and all they need to do is put on a breath mask. And they are fine in the otherwise unprotected esophagus of the exogorth. There have been explanations to say they didn't stray too far from the Falcon's artificial gravity/atmosphere, but this is simply too much of a stretch. Let's now think of ROTJ. There is a famous criticism/fan theory known as the Endor Holocaust, in which the destruction of the Death Star II would mean raining massive bits of itself down to Endor, especially with an official diameter of 160 km compared to estimated sizes for Endor based on visual comparisons. But the Ewoks are fine, and the Rebels celebrate into the night with not a bit of scrap to fall from the sky

Next, the ongoing sequel trilogy, and this is where the science really begins to fall apart. Starkiller Base in particular is a huge offender. The characters on Takodana are able to see from the planet's surface the destruction of the Hosnian System hundreds, thousands, perhaps even more, lightyears away. Hyperspace travel is explained as being similar to wormholes that compress spacetime. Science-fiction that really needs no more explanation, but light is different. I believe some supplementary material mentions that the bright lights themselves went through hyperspace, but even in SW, hyperspace travel takes time. It is not instantaneous. Furthermore, Starkiller Base itself functions by absorbing an entire star - even the smallest and least massive of stars contain SO much mass that to absorb one (which IS science fiction) would still contain enough energy to begin nuclear fusion. Starkiller Base itself would be toasted the minute it absorbed too much and would itself become a star - something that only happens after it is critically damaged. Now, as for that scene in TLJ. Force-sensitive or not, Leia could not have survived the open vacuum of space without a suit and undamaged. There is a myth that one explodes in space due to lack of pressure, but this is untrue. However, the body does not react well. Gases expand almost instantly, causing the body to bloat. Blood in the veins would boil. But more importantly, space is cold. Very cold, especially when not directly facing a source of heat like a star. This would result in near-instantaneous and irreparable cellular damage and, in turn, death. Even with advanced medical technology, this just isn't something that can be fixed. This is by far the most scientifically questionable thing in the Star Wars saga thus far

So as we can see, there is a clear pattern here. As the timeline goes on, the connection to real world science is becoming shakier. More crazy things are happening. And we can't say that filmmakers are becoming more daring since the original trilogy was made first. And of course, over the entire series, we have typical complaints not unique to Star Wars. Sound in space is not possible. Fire, such as from explosions, cannot exist in space. The ships' maneuvers should not be really necessary or, in some cases, even possible, and they would move considerably slower given real physics. But what if there is also a reason for this, a reason connecting the increasingly odd things mentioned in my list?

I believe this is leading up to whatever greater threat there may be to the whole galaxy, perhaps to all of existence, either in Episode IX or whatever future movies there may be in Anthology or in the episodic films after the Skywalker Saga, and that is the very fabric of reality itself. Something very long ago happened - or is happening - that is causing the galaxy's hold on itself and the physics behind it to slip. Perhaps whatever it is threatens all of existence itself. If this trend continues and the physics become even wonkier, even crazier and less realistic, then whatever is happening to the galaxy is getting closer to completing its plan. That is, IF there is a sentient being behind this. Some could argue the Force itself, or some long dead evil godlike entity, or hell, even Snoke if they want

This could change everything in the entire franchise. What if even the Force itself is a result of this steadily loosening grip on the laws of physics in the Star Wars universe? Something's happening, something crazy, and the hints are there

Spoiler: tl;dr version

the bad science in SW is getting worse as the timeline progresses, and it's a deliberate hint that the nature of the universe is falling apart, possibly caused by an intelligent being that also may or may not intend to destroy all of existence

 

Well geez that got dark

 

Some fallen higher being like a whill or celestial who seeks to end civilization. A being that has been imprisoned for years . Can have an entire race such as the Vong or Rakatans as it's servants or worshippers . This entity enslaves everyone , even force sensetives. He has abominations such as leviathans , behemoths and zombies in his army . This entity has only one goal: Destroying everything because it thinks that's the only way to eternal peace and balance.

A fallen entity could work fell for a eventual fourth Skywalker trilogy imo.

 

All yall need to write some fanfics ASAP.

So many intriguing ideas.

 

I'd like to see something completely different than the usual Light Side/Dark Side trope. The Vong would be an excellent place to start, being of alien origin from outside the main Galaxy. I would also really enjoy seeing something akin to the Borg from Star Trek, a machine-like enemy that can assimilate what it needs and provides a masterful opponent for the main protagonists, whether it is a New Republic or another major governing body (if one exists).

 

Which do you like the most?

 

1. An Imperial Remnant on Coruscant that seeks Luke (as Vader's heir) to lead them.
2. Mace Windu having survived and started a Force user based "League of Shadows" like in Batman Begins. His Order would have a point, and make Luke question his allegiance to the notion of a New Republic. Windu points out how they will betray him.
3. The survival and return of Darth Plageuis the Wise to leave one last piece of unfinished business for Luke and his heirs.
4. The Republic/new government turning on the New Jedi Order, in an effort to stop the Jedi from fighting a return to the old ways of apathy and corruption.

 

I think the problem is that you don't need to make new villains to ensure that it still feels like Star Wars. We have enough material from the Canon and Legends for inspiration. Imperial Remnants, First Order, Hutts, Dark Side Users, Vicious Creatures, Bounty Hunters. I don't think they need to make a new Vong or bring back the Sith. By keeping it contained, it'll make all sides more whole and familiar.

 

Man, it's tough. The "extragalactic threats" that have been presented definitely have had the problem of not "feeling like Star Wars" as the thread title says. By the time the ST wraps up we will have had Space Nazis and Evil Wizards galore. I love the idea of Star Wars exploring issues with with droid sentience and such but a truly big bad droid or AI "villain" doesn't seem right, at least not for a major threat, we get a little too Terminator/Matrix going down that road.

To me, a sort of "something ancient and evil returns" would be a way forward with the Force side of things. Presented differently, though, not in the persona of a Palpatine/Snoke type dude on a throne. A dark version of the Mortis family, perhaps, not just a single entity, and more active rather than always being behind the scenes manipulating stuff. Some beings that were so awful that Jedi and Sith had to work together to vanquish them. That's a little different but still tied to the Force mythology.

As far as factions in a galactic conflict, that should be there, but less black and white -- imagine the Republic and CIS if they hadn't both been manipulated by Palpatine. Two groups who both have legitimate grievances, where it's imaginable that the heroes might legitimately switch allegiances as the story unfolds.

I don't see any existing concepts in Legends or Canon that are "big" enough to serve as the primary villain faction, at least in a Saga-level trilogy. We have interesting factions, sure, but nothing that's going to leap out from the background and rival the Empire, or the Sith/Darksiders.

 

A masked serial killer with lightsabers instead of arms and legs.

 

What about a terrorism angle? There would be clear bad guys, they'd emerge to cause chaos and destruction, but would then disappear afterwards. There would be no way of knowing when or where they'd strike next. There's no Death Star or any kind of centralized location that can be attacked to weaken them. There are only clues they leave behind and a growing suspicion that one of the good guys may actually working for them.

With this kind of setup, there could still be a lot of action when the terrorists actually attack, with the Jedi trying to stop them. There could also be the classic Star Wars themes of overcoming fear, resisting hate, etc., but without the overt good guys group vs. bad guys group. Maybe I've just watched too much 24.

 

Death Watch in TCW leaned pretty hard into this angle, including straight up suicide bombers and false flag attacks, so it's definite something that can work in a Star Wars context.

 

Some things that probably would NOT work, or wouldn't be that original or interesting:

• I hope we do NOT see a version of Abeloth... that's basically just an overpowered Sith.
• An alien invasion by itself does NOT make an interesting threat for a trilogy, unless they pose some ideological/philosophical questions, otherwise it's just "everyone unites to defeat the outside invaders." (Though if they were decentralized and nomadic, no single overlord/capital/ship to take out, it was just in their culture to either conquer or pillage or massacre, it would require a very different strategy at least.)
  
• I do hope we see a GFFA where droids have full rights, BUT a trilogy about it would be boring. It would be awful to depict the droids as the bad guys, if they're just fighting for equal rights. The outcome would be obvious: they gain equal rights (unless you want to be super-depressing). I want to see droids gain rights, but it doesn't need a trilogy to get us there, it can happen between movies.
• With the movie "Solo," we have now already gotten a movie with the criminal underworld as the main bad guys. And it didn't seem particularly interesting.
  
• We have already gotten corporations as the bad guys in the Prequels, and alluded to in TLJ too.

What could work?

We haven't yet seen a more feudal galaxy, divided into dozens/hundreds/thousands of small kingdoms or republics, a "GoT" in space. Though it is the kind of galaxy the Confederacy/Separatists were fighting for. I wouldn't want to see it in the "future." But perhaps in the past, what the galaxy looked liked before the Republic. Each Sith Lord having his/her own Jedi Knights to rule over their mini-kingdom, with the Sith Lords constantly at war with one another to expand power. Until the Jedi Knights discover the Force isn't only a tool but has its own will, and decide to side with the oppressed peoples of all the feudal kingdoms, go "order 66" against their Sith Lords, and help form the first Galactic Republic. With some Sith Lords not necessarily being dark, and their descendants being the leftover nobility we see in the Saga, where titles like Princess of Alderaan and Count Dooku originate from, the old Pre-Republic feudal system.

Other things I'd like to see:

• antagonists who create a virus that desensitizes the Jedi to the Force
• a new-canon version of Pius Dea (anti-alien Human Supremacist crusaders) as an enemy, either in the very old Republic era, or "modern" times, or even something that pops up throughout galactic history?
  
• a morally-ambiguous Force-user who leads an anarchist movement to liberate worlds from the Hutts but with ruthless and bloody methods
• anarchist terrorists striking at the Republic, and perhaps even being successful and leading to a genuine authoritarian counter-movement to restore order (what Palpatine pretended to be, someone truly reluctant to take more power to bring back peace), could be an interesting story set in the past of the Old Republic.
  
• a new-canon version of the Fel Empire and its Imperial Knights and Victory Without War programs like the Imperial Mission, existing either in the distant past or emerging out of the Unknown Regions between ROTJ and TFA
• a villain replicating Death Star technology and similar dangerous tech, but not to impose control, it's an organization that actively wants to just kill all life and destroy all planets and stars, reducing everything to nothing
• an empire arising in the galaxy that's very different in ideology and style, more totalitarian and caste-based, perhaps even led by misguided puritan Jedi
  
• a hero set in the time of still-lightside but more elitist Jedi who just enforce corrupt Republic laws & covert operations and don't understand a situation and we actually cheer for the protagonist to defy the Jedi
• transhumanist/transorganic antagonists (or protagonists) that really explore that theme for the first time in Star Wars
  
• exploring other Jedi factions in older time-periods, or perhaps post-TROS non-Jedi, light-side organizations (such as Jedi, or Jedi-like beings, who are: (1) more wandering mystical do-gooders than centralized bureaucracy with a governing council, (2) who don't serve the Republic but serve another government, (4) who don't serve any government, (5) more on those who are the non-sensitives that still follow Jedi teachings, (6) Jedi who allow marriages, children, families, (7) Jedi who have multiple career paths beyond warrior or monk, such as Jedi doctors, Jedi teachers, Jedi scientists, etc.

 

A very good post.

Another idea, drawing somewhat on George Lucas' mooted ideas for the ST: Why does the Force exist? Who created it? Maybe it was a bunch of bloodthirsty sadists, cosmic beings from another plane, who created the entirety of the GFFA, the Jedi, the Sith, etc. as a theater of blood-sport for their entertainment as an audience.

Writers, in other words.

 

@BlackRanger have you ever read Typewriter in the Sky?

 

I have not. I had to look it up. It sounds like an interesting premise, but L Ron Hubbard being its author makes me instantly leery, though.

 

Hubbard was crackers, that's for sure.

 

It's a fairly short book, not a lot of room for his preaching or philosophy, and it sticks pretty closely to the premise, as I recall. It's been a long time since I read it.

 

The Nihil in the High Republic so far definitely show potential as a new type of antagonist, as the Yuuzhan Vong did 20+ years ago now. The Nihil also seem closer to what Lucas was originally think would be one of the main antagonists of his Sequel Trilogy. They're not just pirates or criminals, they don't want this ideal Galactic Republic in its golden age to expand any further, into their outer rim of lawlessness where they currently prosper in lawless regions of space due to their strength.