Saga What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?

Lucas has stated that the six films exist as one, with everything else separated--EU/videogames/etc.

 

None of the things I brought up contradicted the films. And I would add that TCW DOES exist in the Lucas's official chronology.

 

Yea he trying to keep the six together, but he is releasing separated blu ray sets which kinda hurts the Saga agenda. It will be very interest to see which set sell the most. PT set, OT set or Saga Set?

 

Despite "everyone" knowing them, some people ignore it/pretend they didn't exist at one time, or argue as if they didn't.....So, what I said was not a straw-man.

Are you sure?

I seem to remember your insistence from a couple of years ago that "if the Force could show you the future (per Luke's Cloud City vision in ESB), then it could also show you the past" . You were arguing that the Force 'gave' Leia those memories of her mother.

Maybe so, but that wasn't the point.

Interesting way of looking at it, Stampid. Too bad LFL doesn't utilize this reasoning, though.

"OH NO HE DIDN'T !!!"

 

It's not focused on, but it's not ignored either. ROTS makes clear what sort of parents the Organas intend to be, and ANH proves what sort of father figure Owen has been.
Some of the most rewarding connections between the trilogies are the ones that aren't reasoned for us and left ambiguous. I guess its neat to have explicit explanations for everything seen on screen, especially silly little details that many viewers may not even notie. But some things are even better left for the viewer to wonder.

 

It bothers me that Anakin built C3P0 as a child.

I wish C3P0 had a different origin.

 

I side with your opinion sometimes. Other times I like the contrast of character it gives Anakin. A protocol droid is for royalty, an expensive piece of equipment--and then you have Anakin building something, something out of his price range, with his own two hands. It really sides well with the entire star wars saga in general, particularly A New Hope and George Lucas.

 

I agree, I like it. But it was unexpected, for sure. I think it makes it easier to accept if you take the back story that Anakin found the broken and abandoned parts of a protocol droid somewhere, took it home, and built it into C-3PO.

 

Now to mention that it brings up the theme that he WANTS things he doesn't have, things that are typically associated with the greedy.

 

WOW...I totally forgot about that....I dont think he built him from scratch though. If you look around Shmis hut you can see 3POs outer shell that he eventually gets in Ep2. I think 3PO was just a broken unit that Anakin repaired and was trying to show off for Padme...you know how kids are and you know how boys are when it comes to girls. I think they some how they got the droid through Watto, but the whole "I built a droid to help mom" I say yea right. Shmi never co signed that.

 

Right on...the kid worked at his owners junk yard. No way he built a working droid from nothing. Even in the scene where Qui Gon & Watto are in the yard you can see many driods, engines, machines, speeders etc etc...Hell Watto had the parts they needed for the Naboo ship, so its safe to say Watto had a really nice junk portfolio. The Anakin - Padme scene makes it seem like Anakin INVENTED a protocol droid, when he actually just REPAIRED one. If anything 3PO came from Watto.

 

Honestly, there are two scenes, and they are both related to deleted scenes. The first is in ROTS, when Yoda is talking to Obi-Wan at the end of the film about communing with Qui Gon, and knowing, just KNOWING where that Yoda Qui Gon scene is supposed to be and how horrible and unnecessary the Yoda/Bail scene ends up being instead. Without the earlier sequence in the movie, the scene with Obi Wan and Yoda makes no sense and therefore should not have been in there. The exact same is true of the Biggs Darklighter scene they added in ANH special edition at the end of the movie. Totally out of place and it lacks context if you don't include the scenes dealing with Luke and Biggs at the start of the movie. Instead it ends up playing like "Random pilot who just happens to know Luke from back home" Either keep the story threads intact and play all of it, or don't use them at all.

 

This probably sounds silly, but of the entire saga, the scene that has always bugged me the most is when the Executor rams into the Death Star in ROTJ. Here we have the massive flagship of the Imperial Navy slamming into the Empire's biggest battlestation, and the results are just... lame. IMO, it should be an epic collision, and I get weak in the knees imagining how cool it could be done now with full CGI, etc. etc. Stupid, I know, but I just really hate that scene and see it as a real missed opportunity.

 

No, no one pretends these facts don't exist or argues as if they don't exist. Everyone knows that they exist and as such they become irrelevant in context. When you insist on repeating these facts you deliberately forfeit the actual argument at hand and proceed to argue against positions which are nonexistent and imaginary.

Yes.

Actually, that was the point. Because your concept of a possibility involving the Force meant that different upbringings would necessarily be irrelevant, you assumed that would be applicable to my belief, but it is not. "Maybe so", meanwhile, is a concession to the relevance of the different circumstances.

 

I think you are.

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Most annoying plotline: Luke trying to bone his sister is a pretty bad romantic subplot in my book.

Most annoying character: Jar Jar Binks

Most annoying Scene- Anakin deciding to leave his 15 years of Jedi training behind him in like 3 seconds to become a Sith
Ani-(sobbing after cutting off Windu's hands)What have I done?
Palp- Join me, which I won't lie does involve ultra murdering some children
Ani- Sure brah.

 

Either the highlighted words, "no one" and "everyone" is extreme hyperbole on your part, or you really believe what you're saying in that first sentence. Are you sure about "no one"/"everyone"?

Using facts doesn't "forfeit" one's argument....

Or, the other way around, ie. upbringings as 'determinative' would make The-Force-Did-It an ad-hoc explanation....

"No True Scotsman" anyone?

If that's the case, then you saying "That's not necessarily true" is a "concession" to the opposite conclusion of yours.

 

I didn't have any major problems with Midichlorians personally. As others have said it adds a scientific edge to the Force, but it didn't totally de-mystify it (they help you attune to the Force, they aren't the Force itself)

They were just kind of unnecessay, given that they cut out the big pay off they were supposed to have with the relevation of Anakin being created by Palpatine (which I'm not sure would've worked as a plot twist. Sounds interesting, but is probably better on paper or as a theory than an actual part of the story)

For what bugged me. They could've toned down Jar Jar a bit. I think he could've been a fine character, it's just that he wasn't executed particularly well. And I think the romantic sub-plot of ATTACK could've been done better (Although I guess it works if taken as that quick, impulsive, and forbidden love Shakespearian style romance)

 

Yeah but for the most part Shakespeare's dialogue wasn't a chore to listen too.

 

Once again, strawmen are factual, and at the same time do not constitute a valid argument ( hence the name ). Imagine that. Not all facts are equally relevant. There are more ways to have a fallacious argument than simply insisting on factually inaccurate statements. Arguing against nonexistent positions is another way.

Yes. That's why you can't provide any actual quotes from people arguing, for example, that Anakin and Vader were the same character in 1977: because they don't exist. So, instead of providing any such evidence, your strategy devolves to testing whether or not I'm "sure". Well, now you know.

 

Let's keep it civil folks.

I don't mind the prophecy or the midis, but like them more as a system of sith beliefs, not accepted by the jedi.

 

I wonder, perhaps if Lucas had dug in deep with the Sith and midichlorian mythologies, instead of more or less dropping them in AOTC after fan backlash, if this might've turned up somehow? It definitely would've made Qui-Gon a more radical figure, to be taking some of the Sith's legends seriously, and maybe even considering them not-so-bad. More than anything, the PT raises the possibility that the true path of the Force is neither Sith nor Jedi, but somewhere in between, and something that Qui-Gon and eventually Luke were onto.

 

They provided an explanation for how and why certain people were selected for induction into the order, a question which would otherwise have been extremely open-ended.

 

Well my idea is not that Qui-Gon thinks the midis or prophecy are true to him but that he recognizes they are true to the sith and so pose a threat. That's why he would look for midis in Anakin, think he might be "The Chosen One", etc. Not because he believes in it but because he knows the Sith do believe and so one must be on the lookout.

I always hoped in between Ep 2 and 3 that in 3 it would be revealed the jedi were mistaken and that the prophecy had been misread and it was really about the sith all along.

I just like my jedi a little more enlightened and pragmatic and not so dogmatic to be held in by dogmas and prophecies and such. They would be the light to the mystical dark of the sith.




but anyway...back on topic:

irritating scene? Jedi Rocks in RotJ.

 

Right. Right.

My most irritating scene-- "Who's scruffy lookin'?"