Saga What plotline, character or scene in the entire Saga irritates you the most?

Almost nothing in the saga annoys or irritates me. I love the whole thing. Sure there are parts (very few though) that I don't completely agree with but it's not my story. This is George Lucas's story, he can make it however he likes. I'll love it all the same. It's Star Wars come on!!!

 

I love the whole OT. It's awesome. But there's some things in the prequels that bug me:

1. Midichlorians. They wreck the whole mystical, divine aspect of the Force, if you ask me, and the subsequent explanations given for their existence (that they really are NOT the Force, but are created by it, or somehow exist wherever the Force is) make them even more disappointing...and darn POINTLESS!

2. Anakin's whole "no father" bit. Being a devout Catholic I found that extremely annoying. WHY, GL, WHY???

3. That dumb two-headed sports announcer alien in Ep.I. The first moment I saw and heard it, I turned to my mom and said, "This is Star Wars?"

 

Have to agree with a previous point about GL's direction of the prequel trilogy. He is notorious for not giving actors any direction. Carrie Fisher and David Prowse both said that they more or less had to develop their own characters because George would just look at them and say "What? I told you what I want, now just go do it", and after that he wouldn't say much else.

However, George's lack of direction may not be the only blame for the blandness of the prequels. It might also say something about the talent of today's actors. I think Star Wars: A New Hope came out pretty darn good even though GL directed. The actors themselves seemed to be of a higher caliber. 20 years later, same director, different actors, totally different result. Jake Loyd as "Manaquin Skywalker". Natalie "the Drama Queen" Portman. Ewan "I'll make the lightsabre sounds with my mouth then bash the film off camera" McGregor. I mean, you can only make lemonade if you have lemons, right?

As a last illustration point, who are the best actors in the prequel trilogy? My vote goes for Ian McDarmid, Liam Neeson, and Christopher Lee. They have many years of experience, and they bring a bit more to their characters. They seem to have no trouble with the direction and their characters are more believable.

 

The thing that both irritates and fascinates me about the whole saga is the demands that it makes upon your imagination and what is plausible. This for me is epitomised by the scene in ESB when Luke tries to lift the X-wing and fails, saying to Yoda "You ask the impossible." That is exactly what GL is asking us to do - believe the impossible - believe that 9 year olds can build complex robots, 14 year olds can rule countries and 19 year old senators have the strength to hold out against evil dark lords, that "rubber gremlin" as somone hilariously described Yoda can lift a ship out the water and perform a complex series of kung-fu kicks - amidst other things. It is a continual suspension of belief and it doesn't always work - shown by the anger/issues generated on this forum - but there us always the problem that we judge what is possible through our own culture and society and GL can not entirely escape this, even by setting star wars miles away in space in another time. So I always have to think this when I am faced with another baffling plot device, it might be possible!

 

The midicholorians and Anakin's immaculate conception also rank waaay up my list. Here are two other ones that particularly rankle me:

1) TPM Anakin (aka Mini-Vader) who is told to "stay in that cockpit" by Qui-Gon during the ruckus on Naboo. As soon as I heard this phrase, I knew the pain was on its way. But I didn't think for a moment how excruciating it would really get: Anakin accidentally flies out of the hangar and achieves planetary orbit on autopilot. He then becomes miraculously skilled as a pilot in space despite childish manuvers ("Let's try spinning, that's a good trick") and only having had experience in the largely 2-dimensional racing of pod racing. But wait! After charging into the fray (I would also like to point out as an aside that he can't even see over the dashboard in the ship) Anakin flies at about 500 mph by accident into the unprotected hold of a giant battleship, skids to a halt without crashing or having his ship disintegrate, and ends up in the perfect spot to accidentally fire the right kind of torpedo down an adjacent hallway and into an exposed generator just sitting there in the open for some reason. Even as I write this I still can't believe that whole sequence actually happened. People who like it will say something about 'the Force' but seriously...dude... this is way too implausible for anyone to rationalize. Plus, Flight of the Navigator already beat all of this to death way back in 1986. I once saw this really cool movie called 'Star Wars: A New Hope.' In it, the defining moment for the young hero is when he uses the Force to blow up a giant ship with torpedoes. Here, basically the same thing happens 'cept that the hero is 6 years old and does it by accident. I just can't help thinking how immensely this entire back end of the film would have improved if Anakin really had just sat in the cockpit and disappeared through to the end credits.

2) Obi-Wan tracking Jango to Kamino by way of a "Kamino saber-dart". This is just..ugh. I mean, I've seen some creaky plot devices in my day, but having Jango literally fire a critical clue directly between Anakin and Obi-Wan when at all other times he uses blaster fire is a horrible way to advance the plot. I'm surprised the dart didn't have a little tag on it that read "Property of J. Fett. If Found, Return to 3910 East Tidal Basin, Kamino." But that's not all! No, the path taken by Obi-Wan to uncover this "mystery" had me practically curled fetal in my seat from shame. The 1950s era diner. The library. The younglings ("Hmmm.. invisible planet-sized gravity anomaly right where I expected a planet to be. I better go ask Yoda and some first graders"). Again, can you imagine how much this would have been improved if Obi-Wan had just said, "Hey, I recognize this, it's a dart manufactured on Kamino and sold nowhere else." Or remember that tracking device he threw on the Slave I as it left Kamino? Maybe you could have just thrown that onto Jango's jetpack when he fled on Coruscant? We're not trying to impress Rube Goldberg here, people.

 

Eh, most annoying character

Boss Nass/Jar Jar (tie)

Most annoying scene:

uh...the underwater thing with Jar Jar

most annoying Plot Line:

The death of Boba Fett!

I LOVE FETT!

 

Hate:

Midiclorians

Jake Loyd, Hayden Christiansen, and Portman (only in AOTC, she was good in TPM)

ALL dialogue in AOTC... hell, ALL of AOTC... it's the worst of the lot.

 

Jar Jar and the Ewoks bug me now. However, when I saw Jedi at 11 years old, I liked them(Wookies would have been better). My seven year old laughs at loud at Jar Jar, so I guess George knew what he was doing getting a new generation into the films.

All of the infantile humor gets on my nerves. Jar Jar stepping in Bantha poodoo. Sarlac burping. Chewie doing the Tarzan yell.

Han shooting first is bad. Luke and Leia being siblings and kissing in ESB(shiver). A second death star, didn't we just do this 2 movies ago. Ewoks instead of Wookies(because Chewie was too techie and Ewoks were more kid friendly). Not having the Clone Wars on film, except the beginning of it and the end of it. Why couldn't AOTC been episode I with TPM being severely trimmed as like a flashback, then The Clone Wars as Ep II, and ROTS being the third? Jar Jar was too over-the-top for me. Ani-Padme romance more forced than Han-Leia. Midichlorians and the virgin birth could have both been cut, Ani is special, we get it.

All of this is just nit-picking though, because I love the movies and the universe GL created.

 

Hmmm...excellent thread. I will approach the PT first:

1. Midichlorians. These were totally unnecessary. The result could have been achieved if Qui Gonn had said, "I have never the Force as strong with anyone as with Anakin." Plus, the Force would not be de-mystified.

2. Starting Anakin as a toddler. He should have been at the age Hayden was in AOTC.

3. Democractically elected 14 year old queen of planet falls in love with toddler? Not buying it. The saga could easily have begun with Obi, Ani, and Padme at their AOTC ages (which negates need for Qui Gonn).

4. Jedi as quasi-priests, i.e. no love. I would have preferred a love triangle. Would help account for Anakin's hatred of Obi later.

As for the OT, I have only one:

1. No Ewoks. Endor should have been Wookiee slave planet. Bonus: No Ewok dance party at end of ROTJ.

 

Scene:
Dooku's dialogue with Yoda in AOTC. Its indicative of the dialogue in general in the PT, but who talks like that?

Character:
Jar Jar, goes without saying.

Plotline:
Anakin in love with Padme for ten years without ever seeing her in person. I had crushes when I was a little kid, but do I remember their names now? No. I could believe it if it all came back when they meet again in AOTC. He could be knocked head over heels, in total awe of her beauty or something, but in love for ten long years, puh-leese. It's like he's been having dirty little fantasies of her for years, and its all coming out now that they're in contact. I guess GL thought that's the way it had to be. Anakin had to have strong feelings for her, that's why Palpatine suggested they protect her. He knew what would happen if those two got together.

Still, I think it could have been more believable, for me, anyways. Their romance, I could believe it better if the actors believed it. The time that I think it is most believable was when they where in the meadow. They looked like they were really flirting, not just delivering lines. Most of the time it just feels stilted.

 

Jake Loyd and Hayden Christiansen, nuff said.

The death of Boba Fett!

I LOVE FETT!

He survies in the books (I think its Tales of the Bounty Hunters).

 

Jar-Jar. He served no purpose except amusement of little kids. Everyone else just stared at the screen thinking "Oh my God, what has happened to George to bring this thing in the movies?"

 

:::Scene:
::ooku's dialogue with Yoda in AOTC. Its indicative of the dialogue in general in the PT, but who talks like that?

Ummm... Jedi?

Laserbrain...

 

The virgin birth I didn't like. I understand the idea behind it but I think it could have been just as easy for his dad to have died before his birth and that Anakin was still the choosen one regardless if he had a real dad or not.

The virgin birth though just makes it too "biblical" for my taste and takes away from the story imo.

 

It wasn't meant to be particulalry Christian. If that's the only mimraculous birth you know about, then that's the only connection you will make.

Besides, whoever said Shmi was a virgin at the time of Anakin's conception?

 

The scene that drives me insane is the battle between Yoda and Dooku in AOTC. Dooku is hurling things at Yoda with the force, and Yoda is deflecting them. So far, so good. Then Dooku sends that giant piece of machinery flying at Yoda, and all of a sudden he's grunting and groaning and straining to hold it up. Huh? What the **** happened to "size matters not to a Jedi"? Has Lucas never seen The Empire Strikes Back? Is it too much to ask that he remember one of the best scenes in any of the Star Wars movies?

 

OK... That jacka$$ friend of annies who's chillin with him before the Pod race in TPM... yeah, well at the end of the race when everyones all down to get down, and that kid goes to high five the little Rodian kid... That has to be the worst high five in the history of high fives... and his little embarrased moves he pulls off after... why the hell didn't GL re-shoot... I realize its just a high five, but damn... Every scene should be perfect considering the budget. Anyways.. if you dont know what I'm talkin about.. check out the "happy time" right after Annie wins the race.. its a guaranteed laugh


Seacrest... out

 

Things that bother me,

Plotline: The whole political stuff in the PT. Lucas wanted more politics in the PT but some of it is unexplained or not very well thought out.
Ex. in TPM the ruler of a planet appears in the senate to bear witness that her planet has been invaded and they just accuse her of lying?? The TF blockade was known, the chancellor sent two jedis to settle the matter so why didn't they appear to bear witness?

In AotC from what Mace says "..there won't be enough jedis to protect the republic.." and Dooku " .. the jedi will be overwhelmed and the republic will agree to any demand." it seems that the republic has no armed forces what so ever apart from the jedi.
If that is so what could they have done in TPM, assuming that they belived Padme? They have no army or any way to force the TF to do anything. The TF could just say "be quiet or we'll invade you next." Also in AotC the TF, the techno union etc. all seem to have armies but the republic has nothing and in AotC when the jedi show up with a few hundred thousand soldiers, the separatist are totally suprised, "a HUGE army".
In a galaxy with thousand or even million of planets, it would not be very hard to drum up 100-200 000 soldiers but this seem to be impossible for the republic.

About the separatist, in AotC Mace says "if they do break away there won't be enough jedi to protect.."
The spearatist want to break free from the republic but everyone talks like they will break free and then attack the republic. These two things do not always follow each other. If you want to break free from an organisation or goverment body this does not mean that as soon as you have broken free you will turn around and attack.

Characters: The villans in the PT are somewhat lacking I feel, Sidous works, but he is behind the scenes, where he should be but the more visible villans are not good. They are either weak and cowardly, like the TF, or just disposable cardboard cutouts with no character, like Maul. Dooku I like due to Lee but he has very little to do and could have been better with more development. All the villans could have benefitted from deing developed more and having more character.

Scene: Yoda fighting. Not needed, I had no desire to see Yoda fight, he could have been just a great and wise teacher, there was no need to show him fighting.
The scene also looks quite silly and does not acomplish anything other than showing that Yoda can fight, which is not really needed. I would have prefered Mace Windu here, partly as there was hints of a history between them earlier in the arena and partly beacuse it would have been cool to see Mr Jackson and Mr Lee go at it.
Also it would not have looked as silly.

Regards
Nordom

 

WOW! This was a lot to read, but there are a lot of questions raised within the current 9 pages of this particular forum. However, reading this prompted me to join the forum, just so I could post my thoughts on this particular subject!

Here's my thoughts, for those who wish to read them:

1) I agree that the midicholorians thing was bad. Some have asked how they could have handled it otherwise... I say let it just be via Qui Gon's sensitivity to the living Force, and have him just say something like "I've never felt such a strong, untrained presence in the Force" or some such, and leave it at that. Remember, even after the blood test on wee lil' Ani, Obi Wan is not convinced. The only reason he winds up training Anakin at all is due to his sense of honor coupled with the deathbed promise made to Qui Gon. ANNNND... It seems obvious that Obi Wan, at the time he takes on Anakin as a Padawan, isn't all that certain that he is qualified to train the kid in the first place!

2) I am stunned by the lack of good performances coming out of what should be a stellar cast in Ep 1 and Ep 2. All of them have done great films in other genres (except Jake Lloyd... he really should tell his stage mom to stop pushing him and let him go back to having a normal childhood... he ain't cut out for Hollywood!). It's just really disappointing. And have you ever watched them in interviews? Wow, is there a lot said about their experience on the set that comes out in what they DON'T say!

3) My wife and I have discussed this, and we agree that Ep 1 and Ep 2 should have been combined into being the first movie (with Ep 1 being about 10 minutes of backstory at the beginning, or maybe opening with the Darth Maul fight, then explaining in 10 minutes afterwards what led up to it). Then, take all the Clone Wars Cartoon material (all 25 episodes) and make THAT the 2nd film, which would then lead us into a logical Ep. III and Anakin's turn to the dark side.

4) Jar Jar: Ah, poor Jar Jar... the whole poor Gungan race, actually... GL could have made them so much more compelling, and given them really COOL accents, instead of 1920's stereotypical caricatures (how bloody insulting!). Heck, SCOTTISH accents would have worked great, actually! (Close your eyes and picture it... especially Cpt. Tarpals... he was well on his way to being Scottish by the sound of it!)

5) I wholeheartedly agree that there are NO sparks between Anakin and Padme. Han and Leia, now THERE'S chemistry! Again, good actors delivering bad performances (Hayden & Natalie)... it's disappointing.

6) Would Padme PLEASE stop calling him Ani???? E GADS that's annoying!

7) Ewoks: I love 'em, I hate 'em. Man, did GL just totally KILL the ending of ROTJ in the Special Edition though! Different music, and a NEW Anakin ghost?!?!? AIIIIGGGHHHHH!!!!! I grew up the whole Ewok "Yub nub, toe pee chee keen" song, so to have that taken out, well, a little of my childhood went with it.

8) Do NOT get me started on the whole "Greedo shoots first" thing. The script in ANH makes it clear that Greedo is going to bring Han in dead, so Han takes the initiative. If I'm sure some green guy is gonna kill me, I'll shoot first too!

9) I'm sorry, but I like Salacious Crumb in ROTJ. It's a movie, and a little suspension of reality is good. Yeah, I know he's a glorified Muppet, but so is Yoda, and technically, so it Jabba! Crumb is just the typical taunting court jester you see in movies about the Middle Ages.

10) The relationship between Obi and Anakin looks like it will solidify in Ep III, especially given what has been shown in the Clone Wars cartoon. They are much more "brothers" now, though in the cartoon it looks like Obi is a master now, seeing as he sits on the council.

WOW. Sorry, didn't mean to write so much! See ya!

 

The Padme/Anakin Love story line and the scene by the fireplace in AOTC. Truly cring-worthy. It could had been better.

 

Well I'll agree about the whole Ani thing. I really hope that no one calls him Ani in ROTS! I hate that!

 

episode 1: Sebulba slams his fist down and says "poodoo".

episode 1: Anakin says: "now THIS is PODRACING!!" and "Ill try spinning, thats a good trick...woooaaahhh....."

episode 2: out of nowhere, muppet flies by and says "jedi poodoo"

episode 2: c3po breaks all sense of reality and says: "Die Jedi dogs" or "this is such a drag", or "im beside myself"

These scenes just take me out of the movie alltogether.

OR Jedi.

 

-Jar Jar...nuff said

-Young Annikin saying "yipeeee" after Watto tells him he can go home after cleaning the racks
Battle Droids in general (TPM)

-3PO's stupid dialogue...I'm beside myself, this is such a drag. (AOTC)

-R2D2s jet propulsion...why couldn't he use them then to go down the steps at the Millenium Falcon's hanger at Mos Eisley?


-Poor CG excuses for Yoda and Jabba the Hutt

 

Simple. It is never explaned both in the movie or in real life how Hayden Christensen is suppose to, in any way, be the alter ego to Darth Vader. Doesn't have the same stature. Doesn't have the same slight (very slight) British accent. Isn't as big. Doesn't have the same demeanor. Doesn't fight the same (though easily explaned). And plain and simply, isn't similar in any way I can figure except being caucasion (which isn't enough for this fan, I'll tell you what....) As a fan, I am thuroghly offended. Jake Lloyd I'll forgive because all kids are the same. They all say yippee blah...blah...blah. I guess I expected so much more out of the longly awaited ANAKIN SKYWALKER!!!!!!! Damn, what a waste of a character. Waste waste waste. Not even Jar Jar annoys me that much. And don't even get me started on the absolute lack of emotional chemestry between Hayden and Natalie. None. Non-existant. Nada. Makes me sick. GL better be glad he kept the rights because a newbie fan could have made better prequels. But, it is still SW. And I am willing to look past all of this. Just letting off some steam and answering a thread. (as I say under my breath.......*dirty punk GL, did better in his pot smokin hippie days*)

 

I am a little late coming to this thread. But a person, can't remember exactly who, said that Obi Wan blocking force lightning from Dooku was the scene they hated most. I don't understand this. What is so bad about Obi Wan blocking force lightning? Just because Luke wasn't able to do it in ROTJ? I can 'imagine' how Obi Wan could use the Force to redirect the flow of the Force lightning to allow his lightsaber to absorb the hit. Or am I missing something here?