what really nags you when watching epiodes 1-6

the old emeperor passes for palpatine very well IMO
then again the new palpatine matches even better

i'm surprised by the reactions that particular change got.

so, if the new palpatine is only slightly better than the old, the old Boba Fett's voice is easily better than the new. talk about "menacing".

 

Absolutely nothing. I enjoy the saga as is (including the DVD OT)

 

The only thing that nags me is the tremendous rise in quality when jumping from the PT to the OT. The new films just can not touch the classics.

 

The only thing that nags me is that there are just six films!!!!!!!!!!! That's about it. I would have liked for Lucas to make 9 films like the original plan was but since Lucas put the ideas for epsiodes 6-9 mostly into JEDI then the saga is complete. But seriously, if there is one thing then that is why Obi Wan looks like a total loser in the duels with Dooku. This is the man who defeated Darth Maul and to some extent Darth Vader. He shouldn't be beaten this easily by Dooku. But that's about it. And the images and feelings line of Leia's is no problem. Like has been mentioned before, it totally fits with what the audience has been told and is similar to Luke's memories of Yoda/Dagobah. Lucas knew what he was doing. Although I'm sure Padmé would have survived the films if Lucas had written PT first, this was a very fitting and good end for Padmé. Very sad and emotional and makes the scene in JEDI even greater.

 

A few things.

Firstly, and this doesn't have so much to do with what is actually seen in the films themselves so much as the behind the scenes commentary. But the idea that the Emperor is displeased with Vader not living up to his potential nags me.

Secondly, the means by which the Emperor attempts to turn Luke. With Anakin, there was a lot of manipulation: "They don't trust you Anakin; All those with power are afraid to lose it, even the Jedi; I have the power to save the ones you love; When the Jedi learn what has transpired here, they will kill us; If the Jedi are not all destroyed, it will be civil war without end; If the Jedi haven't let you in on their plot, they soon will; You see, I was right. The Jedi are taking over!" etc.

With Luke, there's no manipulation. He doesn't get Luke to "deal in absolutes." Instead he just taunts him: "Give into your aggressive feelings, boy; You, like your father, are now mine; With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant" etc.

Thirdly, Jabba. When we first see him in ROTJ (pre-Special Edition) he's a ruthless, hedonistic, gang leader that doesn't take crap from anyone. Now with the SE we got scenes where he's letting Han talk back to him and step on his tail. And in TPM he makes a point of personally kicking off the Boonta Eve races? And I'm not going to even touch TCW. His threatening character has been emasculated.

 

I agree. The different way it is handled in the PT and in the OT is disturbing. Moreover, Anakin in the PT has a real motivation to turn and side with the Emperor : saving his beloved wife and acquire the powers needed. Although I was personally disappointed by this, I admit there is a clear motive here. Whereas Luke in ROTJ, in comparison, doesn't seem to have any reason at all, except for Yoda's warning that "once you start down the dark path (anger, agression) forever will it dominate your destiny" and being suddenly consumed by the dark side. Although it looks great on screen in ROTJ and can be viewed and enjoyed as rather symbolic, what happens in ROTS with Anakin make it seem rather weak on the logical point of view.

 

well Dooku's pretty decent himself. only 1 of 3 jedi that go up against him defeat him - Anakin (and it takes him 2 attempts). remember, Anakin only does it fuelled by anger and by giving into his darker side. thats also the only reason Obi-Wan defeats Darth Maul. and even then he gets lucky vs Maul and relies on his arrogance and own complacency. same way he beats Anakin... this all ties up nicely for me.

 

According to George Lucas himself, all six episodes were thought up at once. Well, all nine episodes. He imagined the entire story from beginning to end. So apparently, all these minor details are unimportant. He already knew that "Leah" was "the other". He already knew about the Anakin/Obi-Wan battle. He already knew pointed details that were "later filled in".

But in the time to actually film all this, I think, the original message itself may have been lost.

And perhaps Lucas realizes that he's getting older and does not want to take the time to film the last part of the third trilogy, because quite possibly, he may not live long enough to complete it.

I see many parallels between Star Wars and The Omen I, II, and IV.

if there is one thing then that is why Obi Wan looks like a total loser in the duels with Dooku.

That's because Obi-Wan is not The Chosen One. Since Dooku is supposedly a Sith Lord with all this power, only one is able to defeat him. The Chosen One.

With Anakin, there was a lot of manipulation: "They don't trust you Anakin; All those with power are afraid to lose it, even the Jedi; I have the power to save the ones you love; When the Jedi learn what has transpired here, they will kill us; If the Jedi are not all destroyed, it will be civil war without end; If the Jedi haven't let you in on their plot, they soon will; You see, I was right. The Jedi are taking over!" etc.

With Luke, there's no manipulation. He doesn't get Luke to "deal in absolutes." Instead he just taunts him: "Give into your aggressive feelings, boy; You, like your father, are now mine; With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant" etc.

That's because Luke had already turned to the Dark Side by the time he "met the Emperor". He already WAS on the Dark Side!

Thirdly, Jabba. When we first see him in ROTJ (pre-Special Edition) he's a ruthless, hedonistic, gang leader that doesn't take crap from anyone. Now with the SE we got scenes where he's letting Han talk back to him and step on his tail. And in TPM he makes a point of personally kicking off the Boonta Eve races? And I'm not going to even touch TCW. His threatening character has been emasculated.

In the original, Jabba was a human. Han walked around him because he did not HAVE a tail! Lucas had to cut that scene because of time constraints and money originally.

 

Like he knew that Owen and Obi-Wan were brothers?
How R2 has jets in episode II and not in the OT?
In the OT Yoda was Obi-Wan's so-called "master", yet in the PT Qui-Gon is?
How Leia said that she remembers Padme in ROTJ, yet in ROTS she is a newborn when Padme dies?

I know that most of these questions have been answered in EU, but he didn't know all of these things while filming the OT.

 

Like he knew that Owen and Obi-Wan were brothers?
How R2 has jets in episode II and not in the OT?
In the OT Yoda was Obi-Wan's so-called "master", yet in the PT Qui-Gon is?
How Leia said that she remembers Padme in ROTJ, yet in ROTS she is a newborn when Padme dies?

Huh?

They didn't have those great special effects in 1977.

I can't explain that one. Lucas is the one who said he dreamed it all up at once, not me.

That was rewritten so that Padme could die and "Sith" could bring closure. In his original story Padme died with Leia on Alderaan. But viewers wanted closure for "Sith".

Also, maybe, Padme needed to be dead. Somewhere else I read by another that Padme "still looked pregnant" in her funeral scene. Perhaps that was a trick done by the Dark Lord of the Sith so nobody but him [and his servants masquerading as Jedi] and the good people on Tatoonie and Alderaan would know that she actually had given birth to twins. She was from and buried on the Emperor's home planet, right? Surely the Emperor knew everything that took place there?

 

Lucas didn't think up the whole saga at once. He came up with a basic backstory (Anakin was a Jedi who was killed by Darth Vader, etc.) and a basic plot outline for the original films, which were meant to be one long film, but the idea that he came up with and/or wrote the entire saga at one time is a myth that's been perpetuated by Lucas for years. Behind the scenes research and commentary proves that to be fundamentally incorrect.

 

Wrongo. Luke did not turn to the dark side in ROTJ.

 

although Lucas has not always helped diffuse the myth that he wrote the entire saga in one go, i dont think he's ever stated that he did it this way either. that itself is a myth. he's said things that could be interpreted that way such as "i came up with a backstory that said this is who this is, this is who that is, this is how things were, this is how we ended up here" but he's admitted that was vague. he's also said he wrote a lengthy first film (ANH) and chopped it up into pieces but he's never said the original drafts of ANH contained anything like what happened in ESB or ROTJ. there are certainly elements and resolutions in his original ideas for ANH that were incorporated into ESB in some way.

I remember an interview he did in 1999 where somebody asked Lucas this very question, about whether or not he had the whole thing mapped out. He stated that he didnt and pretty much agreed with the interviewers later assertion that he was actually making it up as he went along. As you said, there's no evidence at all he had it all worked out from the start. Each film changed elements here or there. ESB changed things the most profoundly. After then I think he worked out much of the core 1-6 story.

 

Thank you to the two who responded about Lucas. I saw an interview where he said he thought it all up at once, I think.

 

Nothing nags me when I watch episodes 1-6. What nags me is when people make "what nags you about the 6 films" threads.

 

Quite the opposite. It was done so that the Sith would think she HADN'T given birth and the child was dead (no one knew it was twins until the birth)