Clone Wars What should Ahsoka's fate be?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Aug 6, 2010.

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What should Ahsoka's fate be?

Killed in a lightsaber duel (Grievous, Ventress, etc) 39 vote(s) 11.2%
Killed by someone else (Bane, Vizsla, Boba, etc) 49 vote(s) 14.0%
Noble self-sacrifice (ie. Weapons Factory) 61 vote(s) 17.5%
Expelled from the Jedi Order 44 vote(s) 12.6%
Away on a solo mission 13 vote(s) 3.7%
Assigned to a new master 16 vote(s) 4.6%
Knighted and away on a mission 17 vote(s) 4.9%
Inserted in Order 66 sequence being killed 41 vote(s) 11.7%
Fallen to the Dark Side 21 vote(s) 6.0%
MIA/POW 48 vote(s) 13.8%
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  1. Darth_Quintonis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2013
    star 1
    Okay, we disagree. Thats' cool. Yet I did list my reasons for saying that I believe that she would never turn, for the consideration of others to make up their own minds. Which is far from there being "no reason". You just don't like the reasons I presented. That's cool.

    As far as you perceiving Ahsoka's choice to leave the order being based upon some kind of feeling of superiority, or that she was "too perfect to forgive them", they did make a very grave mistake, I don't think she's past forgiving them eventually, as both Filoni and Eckstein stated, that she "needs her time away to think about all of these things ..." I just didn't get that feeling of haughtiness that you did from her choice to leave the way she did.
    Last edited by Darth_Quintonis, Apr 9, 2013
  2. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Agreed with @Darth_Quintonis, I didn't get any feeling of haughtiness from Ahsoka about leaving the Jedi Order, her facial and physical expressions are pretty depressed, I think to construe it that way speaks more to the viewer's opinion of Ahsoka than the actual episode. My personal take is that Ahsoka had an impression that maybe the Jedi Council is not the perfect body she idealized it to be for awhile but was too afraid (either consciously or subconsciously) to give the possibility serious thought. Hearing Barriss' views on the Council right after they put Ahsoka through what they put her through was jarring enough for her to skip from not really giving it serious thought to feeling like she had to leave the Jedi Order. Imagine what was going through her head while on the run, then eclipse that with hearing views like Barriss' from not just a fellow Jedi but her friend, and I think Ahsoka's reasons are clear enough.

    Like it was with Darth Maul's return, this is less about what is done than how it's done. Yeah, if nothing out of the ordinary happened and Ahsoka left the Jedi Order in some kind of mocking way because she just suddenly realized they're wrong about the Clone Wars entirely on her own, that would be solidly on the haughty Mary Sue side of things. But look at the long, drawn-out, twisting trauma she went through and how it culminated and it makes for a good ending for the character (I think her dying and Anakin knowing about it wouldn't have worked with Ep. III) the audience can believe.
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Apr 9, 2013
  3. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    @Dark Lord Tarkas I agree. In real life I've seen that in organizations that have become corrupted over time the younger people (especially in the high school-early college years) tend to be the first to ultimately walk away while those who were older and had been involved much longer in the organization, including many years before it had started to become corrupted, would often turn a blind eye to its faults. In Ahsoka's case, she had been betrayed by her best friend and would have been put to death had Anakin not found out the truth in time. To me, Ahsoka's response seemed pretty typical for someone who felt betrayed by an organization they had dedicated their life to. I haven't seen too many people who felt they were too good for an organization tearfully walk away from it. She seemed genuinely upset and depressed.
    Last edited by KenobiSkywalker, Apr 9, 2013
  4. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    And now she is full of doubts about what her future holds, she is hurt and and depressed and she will be hurt further during ROTS. How much more hits can she take before she breaks?
    Perfect opportunity for a turning.
    KenobiSkywalker and rumblewagon like this.
  5. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Ahsoka did what Anakin should have done. Would it have spared Anakin from his fate? Perhaps. Would it have spared The Republic and the Jedi Order from their fate? I seriously doubt it. Sidious would have just gotten a replacement for his "new apprentice".
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Sorry guys, she just seemed whiny to me. They admitted they were wrong and apologized, and she still went on about how "They didn't trust me!" No, they didn't, but they said it was a mistake. And then the "How can I trust myself?" LOL wut?

    As far as Barriss--the show failed spectacularly in promoting her as Ahsoka's BFF anyway. And regardless, her actions had nothing to do with Ahsoka. A Jedi blew up the Temple so Ahsoka stops being a Jedi. What's next? Ahsoka decides she doesn't want to be a girl anymore because a girl blew up the Temple?

    I got more of a pouty "**** you" from Ahsoka than depression. As far as Anakin, yeah, he should have left. He was whiny for different reasons, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  7. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Okay, we got it, you don't like Ahsoka.

    Imo it isn't really hard to empathize with a teenage girl who got treated like the worst kind of criminal by her foster family. She is not a robot but a teenage girl, so her acting that way is understandable.

    Your complaints seem kind of hypocritical. On one hand you say she's a sue and Filonis pet character and on the other hand if she shows weakness and acts irrationally you complain too.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 10, 2013
  8. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    @anakinfansince1983 think the opposite of what you currently think so that you can be right instead of wrong.
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Yeah, I'm not playing your "right" and "wrong" opinions game. Try another poster.

    @Darth_Pevra : This actually plays into the Sue factor. Ahsoka whines and the audience is supposed to sympathize with her for it. Any other character who whines gets called on his or her whining immediately--as it should be, and my favorite character is the biggest whiner in Star Wars. I have no problem pointing out when he needs to STFU either.

    And when the hell has Mace Windu ever apologized to anyone? But he is still supposed to be "wrong" or the unsympathetic one in this party?
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  10. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Of course you are supposed to sympathize with her! She is a Protagonist. That's what protagonists are there for.

    Not every complaint is automatically whining.
    Loudly exclaiming you want to go to Toshe station to pick up some power converters instead of doing chores = whining
    Expressing your hurt over being treated like a murderer by your foster family = understandable complaint

    Yes, I guess if she were perfect she would get over it and simply accept the apology but like I said teenage girls can be a bit emotional sometimes.
  11. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    One of the grea...? Oh, come on!

    Look, I get it that you love the character (I've grown to enjoy her, too, for what it's worth), but she was never even knighted. She was a Padawn who served admirably in the Clone War for roughly two years, before she chose (right or wrong) to leave the fight. She was a talented Jedi who learned to perform well in combat and made her impact in various campaigns, but in this respect, she's absolutely no different than scores and scores of other Jedi who did the same throughout the course of the war. Other than whatever inluence she may have had on the real major players of the time like Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda, she has exactly zero relvence to events at the greater, galactic level.

    What we don't know, as of yet, is whether any new stories that may feature Tano will show her making a greater impact, but based upon what we've been shown thus far (and taking into account the history of the Order that we have been shown over the course of thousands of years), there's honestly no basis for making such a statement.

    I'm not tyring to be mean about it, or anything, but while you may think she's the bee's knees (and the fact that she is popular to some folks), this has no bearing on objectively assessing her standing in the greater Star Wars canon.
  12. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    So that's a pouting "**** you" expression? As I said earlier, I think that kind of claim says more about the viewer's opinion of Ahsoka than it does about Ahsoka.
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Apr 10, 2013
  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I don't look at Ahsoka's face long enough to analyze her expression, I was referring to her attitude and behavior. "No! You were mean to me! I'm running away!"

    I know we're supposed to sympathize with the protagonist but that was an epic fail here.
  14. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Wow, now you're conjuring up quotes she never said?!
    In the universe of @anakinfansince1983
  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Where did I say that was an actual quote? I was responding to Tarkas by explaining that this was how I interpreted her attitude and behavior.

    Well, yeah. When I'm watching the show, whether I sympathize with the protagonist determines whether the story works for me--not whether other viewers sympathize with her or whether Filoni is telling me that I'm supposed to sympathize with her.
  16. CaptainRex115 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2013
    star 3
    I get that you hate Ahsoka but saying she has done nothing at the galactic level is simply untrue. Re-Watch the series and take into effect the lives she's saved, and people she has helped throughout the show. If you feel like shes not one of the greatest jedi heroes we have seen I'll be waiting for your detailed list of other Jedi who have done more heroic deeds than her. If your list is shorter than 20 then I'll accept your defeat. Until then you can't claim shes not one of the greatest jedi heroes with no counter argument.
    rumblewagon likes this.
  17. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Great start. You couldn't be more wrong about TreborSabreon. Not that you care.

    I decided to make a list, just for fun.

    Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Anakin Skywalker
    Yoda
    Mace Windu
    Shaak Ti
    Saesee Tiin
    Luminara Unduli
    Quinlan Vos
    Bultar Swan
    Aayla Secura
    T'ra Saa
    Oppo Rancisis
    Plo Koon
    Ki-Adi-Mundi
    Luke Skywalker
    Jaina Solo
    Corran Horn
    Kyle Katarn
    Mara Jade
    Saba Sebatyne
    Revan
    Empatojayos Brand
    Kit Fisto
    Adi Gallia
    Nomi Sunrider
    Jacen Solo
    Anakin Solo
    Ganner
    Leia
    Sharad Hett
    Jorus C'baoth
    Tholme
    Vodo-Siosk Baas
    Bastila Shan

    Pretty sure that's more than 20. It wasn't really all that hard, since Ahsoka only has about three years of activity to distinguish herself.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Apr 10, 2013
  18. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    I'm sorry, but in your blind love of a single character, you've ignored everything that I said. You get that I hate her? Are you blind, or simply deficient (and why do so many people who like Ahsoka, so often assume that any opinion about her which differs from their own equals hatred of the character)? The very first thing I said was that I enjoy her. And though I could play your game and list the true galactic players of the franchise, if you were a better informed Star Wars enthusiast, with all that the franchise entails (rather than just a TCW one), I wouldn't ever have needed to make the post I did in the first place, as any honest, informed and objective fan wouldn't have made such a ridiculous assertion as describing Ahsoka Tano as "one of the greatest Jedi hero[e]s of all time."

    See if this makes any sense to you: I never slagged-off on Tano, or implied that she did anything wrong. I simply stated that, in her decided lack of (and I'll use the phrase again) galactic-shaping influence, she has not yet earned the title you are so eager to prematurely grant her. Does she have greatness in her? Will she one day achieve such feats? Maybe - that's up to the writers and the direction (if any) Lucasfilm chooses to take with her from here on out.

    Tano did nothing over the course of TCW that wouldn't be expected of any Jedi who lived during the Clone War. Helping people and saving lives (other than, as I already noted, when she affected the lives of the real major players) does not equal galactic-shaping events or influence. It just doesn't. I'm sorry if you can't understand that.

    Finally, although (against my better judgement) I took the time to write this post, I don't require any 'counter argument,' as my position was stated clearly and, unlike yours, based upon informed, objective, dispassionate reasoning. Other folks who like Ahsoka can see that reasoning and the lack of vitriol in my assessment of Tano's contributions thus far, it's a shame you can't (but as much as it pains me to admit it, I honestly didn't expct anything different).

    edit: Thanks, 5309.
    Last edited by TreborSabreon, Apr 10, 2013
  19. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    From a storytelling perspective, her role is not very important. She's basically the sidekick of Anakin Skywalker, the main hero of the PT.

    But she's still way above joke characters like Ki-Adi Mundi or Nomi Sunrider.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 10, 2013
  20. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Quite.

    I never said Ki-Adi-Mundi or Nomi Sunrider were above Ahsoka from a storytelling perspective, in case that's what you were implying.
  21. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Okay, thought you meant "most important Jedi" ever. My mistake.
  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    When she was introduced, I was hoping that she would play a more important role as far as Anakin and his fall. As it is, it seems that her only role was to help him get pissed off at the Council, and it's not like they were on great terms in the first place so I don't think she was needed there.
  23. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Well, Nomi Sunrider was absolutely more important than Ahsoka from an IU perspective. OOU, from a storytelling perspective, no.

    Nomi was largely responsible for putting an end to the Great Sith War led by Sith Lords Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma and their schism when others, including highly reputable Jedi Masters, could not.

    After these events Nomi was recognized as Head of the Jedi Order, or basically Grand Master.

    Now, if you're unfamiliar with the events I'm talking about, that doesn't mean they didn't happen and it doesn't make them any less important IU.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Apr 10, 2013
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  24. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I was talking strictly OOU.

    But IU I'd like everything KJA ever wrote ignored. Including the much overrated TOTJ.

    Yes, I'd like more of the important stuff too.

    On the other hand I understand that it was difficult to give her any lasting importance since TCW is more or less ... filler. It only adds a few important elements to the saga:
    Obi-Wans and Anakins friendship
    The war itself
    Who the hell Grievous is
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 10, 2013
  25. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Understood. I feel the same way about TCW and Ahsoka Tano.
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