Clone Wars What should Ahsoka's fate be?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Aug 6, 2010.

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What should Ahsoka's fate be?

Killed in a lightsaber duel (Grievous, Ventress, etc) 39 vote(s) 11.2%
Killed by someone else (Bane, Vizsla, Boba, etc) 49 vote(s) 14.0%
Noble self-sacrifice (ie. Weapons Factory) 61 vote(s) 17.5%
Expelled from the Jedi Order 44 vote(s) 12.6%
Away on a solo mission 13 vote(s) 3.7%
Assigned to a new master 16 vote(s) 4.6%
Knighted and away on a mission 17 vote(s) 4.9%
Inserted in Order 66 sequence being killed 41 vote(s) 11.7%
Fallen to the Dark Side 21 vote(s) 6.0%
MIA/POW 48 vote(s) 13.8%
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  1. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    My post there does not imply Ahsoka will instantly die but an encounter with Vader would most likely be fatal to Ahsoka. Vader might try to turn her but I don't see Ahsoka actually doing it despite what older Ahsoka told her on Mortis and getting poisoned against her will by the darkside thanks to Son. Ahsoka isn't the wisest person however she tended to be portrayed in the morally right almost all the time on TCW. She's like the Sailor Moon of the GFFA. She is whiny, brash, and immature at times but pure and a true friend (I'm so sorry about this Usagi). IMO even when her mind has serious doubts she'll refuse the darkside.
    Last edited by Seerow, Apr 14, 2013
  2. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    All this talk about Vader attempting to seduce Ahsoka to the Dark Side makes me kinda miss the Harley Quinn-esque Dark Ahsoka in Altar of Mortis. She was more entertaining at times than standard Ahsoka, and might have been a brief glimpse at one of her possible futures had she ended up remaining Anakin's Padawan, like Future Ahsoka told her on Mortis. Although Dark Ahsoka certainly looked downright freaky (perhaps part of the appeal to some):
    [IMG]

    I get that Ahsoka is supposed to play the role of a pure and incorrigible Jedi, despite the flaws inherent in her youth and oftentimes impetuous personality. But it's not the fact that she is so do-goody that I find appealing, but more that she has her flaws and self-doubts, which we finally see more of in Season 5. The events of the Young Jedi arc and the finale Fugitive arc truly sold me on her character, which until then had many elements of a typical Sue.
  3. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I can understand that. As I mentioned in my previous post. One of my favorite heroines is Sailor Moon herself from the manga/ anime of the same name. She is an infallible do-goody. One thing that actually makes Sailor Moon an enjoyable character is in contrast to alot of heroes she is a whiny, brash little brat who just doesn't use her head alot of the time despite actually being a smart cookie. I know Sailor Moon gets slammed as being a negative stereotype, but whatever. Sailor Moon usually overcomes her faults and doubts because no matter what she is a true friend and will rise to whatever challenge to protect lives. She does mature a bit over the course of the series although much more noticeably in the Manga. Ahsoka is kinda like that. She just lacks alot of Sailor Moon's charm.
    Darth_Quintonis likes this.
  4. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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    I don't buy that Ahsoka in her current state is incorruptible. She may be comfy in the role of the pure good character but often her emotions get the better of her. Emotions that can and will be exploited by the Sith.

    Mortis actually shows on screen that you guys are wrong making such claims.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 15, 2013
  5. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

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    Pretty much anyone can fall with enough stimulus. Anakin being an example of a more easy target to flip.
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  6. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

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    Imagine getting betrayed by your best friend. Horribly, revoltingly betrayed. Set up for committing multiple murders and high crimes against the state.

    And then, you get casually betrayed by the organization that has been your surrogate family from the age of 3. They could have elected not to do so and look into things them selves, but they had their head so far up the Supreme Poobah's derriere that they threw you under the bus with nary a thought. And these people are supposed to be pure, honorable, devoid of greed, malice, blah blah blah...

    And then you get betrayed by the gov't...

    (The Old Republic are supposed to be the guardians of freedom, justice and apple pie... but when we finally got to see their judiciary in action, it was a sick joke. The head of state was the presiding judge! The prosecutor was an infamous alien hater, but was allowed to prosecute a non-human defendant anyway. The judge made an argument against the defense! He should have been recused immediately at that point, but nope... Ahsoka would probably have got a fairer trial on Cardassia.)

    And then imagine that the only guy who stuck by you through the whole thing, who believed in you, who was ready to climb just about any mountain to save you... ended up embracing the dark side. Must be something to be said for that dark side...

    I think if I was Ahsoka, particularly in the weeks after Order 66 and the founding of the Empire, I'd be thinking this dark side thing looks more and more like the way to go. The new order will bring peace, security, justice... and no more of that corruption and betrayal.

    This is completely ignoring of course the Force-vision in which Ahsoka was explicitly warned that Anakin had inculcated in her the potential to fall to the dark side.

    If she comes back in future SW productions all Sithed up, I will be entirely unsurprised.
  7. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    I actually think it's certainly possible that Ahsoka can still fall to the Dark Side. Having been Anakin's apprentice for two years during the war and thus assuming some of her Master's character traits leaves her more susceptible to falling than other Jedi. Hence why I mentioned Dark Ahsoka in Mortis as being one of her possible futures. This would undoubtedly make for an interesting narrative, to have Ahsoka fall to the darkness, but the reason I don't see this happening is that she is one of Filoni's favorites, and I can't see him ever deciding that Ahsoka would fall to the Dark Side. Note that I said "incorrigible" and not "incorruptible"; the meanings can be very different.

    Very good points that you bring up. However, Ahsoka isn't the only Jedi in this era who had to suffer through so much pain and injustice that would break those with weaker wills. I'm thinking of Obi-Wan Kenobi here. He had to suffer through the deaths of not one, but three individuals close to him: his Master Qui-Gon Jinn, and old flames Siri Tachi and Satine Kryze. All three were brutally murdered and died in Obi-Wan's arms (fate was never friendly to Kenobi). Obi-Wan also takes a lot of punishment during Seasons 4 and 5, such as being forced to watch helplessly as the Keeper Agruss killed Togrutan slaves and being at the mercy of Maul in a couple of situations. To top it all off, he is forced to fight and kill Anakin in RotS, despite him viewing the latter as his "brother". After the duel is over and Anakin is dismembered, Obi-Wan has that final breakdown, showing more emotion than he ever did when Qui-Gon, Siri, and Satine died. Yet not once did Obi-Wan ever give in to his anger or rage, even though there were moments where he skirted close to losing his composure (Maul's use of Dun Moch in their first duel since his return comes to mind). This is why Obi-Wan is the quintessential Jedi; his will never crumbles or even falters under the stress and pain of everything he had to go through.

    But I digress. You can't tell me that everything that Ahsoka went through can eclipse what Obi-Wan had to experience in his lifetime before his self-imposed exile on Tatooine. I'm not saying Ahsoka's will is anywhere as strong as Obi-Wan's of course, as I'm sure she has her breaking point, but it's certainly not unprecedented for her to resist and reject the Dark Side despite all the suffering she had to go through.

    And your point about the Old Republic being corrupt and unjust is definitely true, after thousands of years of relative peace and stability, it was bound to crumble from within due to complacency and the corruption of those in power. The Jedi Order, as we saw in the Ahsoka Fugitive arc, is not exempt from this. It is one of the reasons many folks here think that bringing balance to the Force means not just destroying the Sith, but also the pre-Empire Jedi Order, who have become so set in their ways that they are unable to adjust properly to changing times. The shroud of the Dark Side clouds everything, and it had affected even the Jedi themselves (just look at Mace Windu in RotS, and how suspicious and jaded he has become compared to before the start of the war). The Jedi Purge was ultimately as much about bringing the Force into balance as eliminating the Sith was.

    I think the most likely scenario would be for Ahsoka to hide during the Dark Times, brooding over the mistakes of the past like Obi-Wan but also seeking to live a new life in hiding and disguise, as far away from the Empire as possible. Of course this doesn't preclude other possibilities, like falling and becoming an Emperor's Hand or dying in a duel with her former Master. That's what's fun about this discussion, we still have no idea about Ahsoka's future, and can only speculate.
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  8. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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    Obi-Wan was actually very close to the edge in ROTS. Instead of mercy killing his friend while he is burning he leaves him in excruciating pain and slings verbal attacks at him. Classical revenge right there. Obi-Wans dark side shows less through violent outbreaks but rather through indifference and coldness.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Apr 15, 2013
  9. MRCynical Jedi Grand Master

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    I thought that too. In fact I wondered, seeing ROTS, why he couldn't have dragged Anakin away from the lava before that happened. I mean what threat could someone with no arms and legs pose to a Jedi Master at that point?

    Edit: The out-of-universe answer is obvious, but I can't think of an in-story explanation why Obi-Wan wouldn't have made a last attempt, futile as it may have been, to save Anakin physically in the hope of saving his soul (for want of a better word).
    Last edited by MRCynical, Apr 15, 2013
  10. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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    He simply wanted to punish Anakin for all he has done. Pretty understandable on one hand but unfortunately Obi-Wan was pretty much a jerkass the entire PT (except for parts of ROTS). I find him pretty unsympathetic (not saying Anakin is much better, btw.).

    I like TCW Obi-Wan way more.
  11. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

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    Depends on what Obi-wan knew Anakin had done by that point. i mean if he knows anakin has killed a bunch of padawans then its quite reasonable to asume anakin is beyond redemption
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    I thought that Obi-Wan assumed that he couldn't get down that lava bank without getting fried himself.

    But I've only watched that scene once. Once was enough. So I can't say I remember the logistics.

    (And please don't post a picture or a video, I've only watched it once for a reason.)
  13. MRCynical Jedi Grand Master

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    He knew he'd killed younglings: he says as much to Padme on Coruscant. But he still tried to 'bring Anakin back' before the start of their duel.

    I felt that about a lot of the Jedi Council for the PT. As much as I knew Anakin turned into Vader and all, I found myself agreeing with him any time he had an argument with them.
    Non-specific TCW spoiler (open)
    I'm particularly pleased that TCW confirmed my Mace-Windu-as-asshole assessment of ROTS.


    He might not have been able to (safely) go down there physically, but couldn't he have lifted him with the Force?
    Last edited by MRCynical, Apr 15, 2013
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  14. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    That's the impression I took from it as well.

    Besides that, Anakin had been cut pretty badly. Obi-Wan most likely assumed he was beyond recovery.
  15. MRCynical Jedi Grand Master

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    I don't (really don't!) want to get into gory medical details, because of squeamishness and total lack of relevant knowledge, but in-universe couldn't the loss of his limbs (remember no burns yet, except the lightsaber ones of course) be survivable with Padme's shuttle a com call and a couple of minutes' flight away?
    Last edited by MRCynical, Apr 15, 2013
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  16. Senator Kelberry Force Ghost

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    Here's a thought that just occurred to me the other day, and I apologize if it's come up before, but let's dip into the EU a little bit for just a moment...specifically the novel "No Prisoners".

    Having left the Jedi Order, instead of turning to the dark side or becoming a bounty hunter like everyone else seems to, she decides she still believes in the path of the Jedi, it's just the official Order that screwed her over. So instead, she seeks out Jedi Master Djinn Altis and his order of Jedi and becomes one of them. At the time of her first encounter with them, she was disturbed by their alternative views, but I think by the end of TCW I'd be willing to bet her world view...or galactic view...has matured and given everything that's happened to her, she might be more receptive to their beliefs.

    That could be kind of cool I think. I'll have to think about it some more.
  17. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

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    Barriss and Ahsoka were best friends? Since when?
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  18. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

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    Since their adventures together in Weapons Factory and Brain Invaders.
  19. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    In the 'Reclamation' rumor which most likely is a unbunch of bullcrap its assumed that Shade is Luke. Hermit with and astromech sounds like him. However my thoughts turned to Ahsoka. The person's gender was never specified in the description.
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  20. Senator Kelberry Force Ghost

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    Hmm, that's an interesting idea too. That would be pretty cool, and it would make sense to me. As for the validity of Reclamation, I'm likely to treat it as I treat most everything else related to their future projects ever since ep VII was announced... "Official press release, or it didn't happen." Cool idea, though, nevertheless.
  21. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    We don't have much else to talk about so until we get some meat about the Bonus Material or a real future show I'm just having fun discussing the ideas in it. It would make as much sense to me for it to be Ahsoka.as it would for it to be Luke, which is unfortunate but it is what it is.
  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Since their ten-minute conversation in Brain Invaders. Don't you know that a 10-minute conversation with someone means she'll still be your best friend three years later?

    Sarcasm aside...I needed more buildup too. "They kept in touch off screen" isn't doing it for me when Barriss hasn't been seen since season 2 and Ahsoka has had a very predominant presence since then. If they had actually shown them having a friendship over season 3 and 4, the "betrayal" would have worked, but it didn't,
  23. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

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    Since they saved each other's lives in Weapons Factory and were a Death's doorstep together.
  24. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

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    I sometimes wondered if Luminara's flippant disregard and readiness to give Barriss and Ahsoka up for dead, vs Anakin's tooth-and-nail determination to get them out, could have been something that gave Barriss the initial nudge onto the slippery slope to the dark side.

    "I can feel them slipping away" BS! The next scene is them trapped, with a limited air supply as Ahsoka stated but for the mean time otherwise unharmed. That's not what I call "Slipping away". Luminara flat-out lied and was ready just to write em off.

    Ahsoka comes away from the whole thing feeling valued, loved (platonically), bonded all the closer to her master... Barriss comes away just knowing that her master views her as expendable.
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Apr 16, 2013
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Still not buying it. There was a war going on. Jedi are in such situations together in nearly every episode. Ahsoka was in that situation with Padme more often than she was with Barriss.

    If Filoni wanted to convince me that Ahsoka and Barriss were best friends, he needed to put them together more often, as opposed to having absolutely no mention of Barriss for more than two seasons and then have her make a sudden reappearance.
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