What the hell is going on??

Discussion in 'Scifi 3D Forum' started by George Mezori SCIFI 3D, Aug 5, 2004.

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  1. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    Well, we're trying to clean up things a bit. The forum has literally been overrun by the same types of posts being posted over and over.

    (1). What's the best app?
    (2). How do I do this or that?
    (3). Where can I find this or that?
    (4). Can somebody do this or that for me?
    (5). Where are tutorials?
    (6). How do I convert these models?
    (7). etc. etc. etc.

    See how the forum looks now with the threads not locked? That's about how we want it to look normally. Some of the things we do is open to debate. Deciding on whether or not a thread is a good question.. or just a tell me how to do it question.. is a call somebody has to make. But there are definitely some dumb questions out there. We can't take people by the hand and teach them. You gotta teach yourself. So the questions you ask need to be good ones. I could go on and on about all these types of topics. (1) is a type that is not allowed anywhere I know of. (3) (5) etc. are ones that people need to figure out themselves using Google. Nobody has any secret stashes. Everything is shared. I spend a dozen hours a week doing GOOGLE searches myself. If it's good enough for me you can do it too. (6) is one of those ones... people need to read the FAQ. Our models are not only not gonna come into your app looking really good... but they might not come in at all. Don't assume or expect anything. You need to be good enough with the software to convert a model yourself. We can't take people by the hand and guide them through the many pitfalls of converting.

    SO... I won't go on anymore. This forum needs to be refocused on content. It's not a newbie forum. It's not a personal training ground (go to SCIFI-MESHES if you want non-newbie training). It's a place to support the SCIFI 3D website, and for members to share work, tips/advice, knowledge/information. It's just gotten out of hand with all the junk posts. Lets see more work, real questions, etc. Remember they said in school there's no such thing as a dumb question? They lied.
  2. TheSithLord89 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2004
  3. Only-One-Tea-Cozy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2004
    star 1
    That said, I think we should link to these sites for noobs.

    Heres a few.

    www.maxforums.org (really good for max help and crits etc)
    www.cgtalk.com (has a separate forum for nearly every 3d program, good for generall how do I do this questions)
    www.3d-palace.com (for the high bandwidth users has some of the best video tutorials around for all the major programs, but especially max)
  4. InvidShocktrooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2003
    star 1
    Let's not forget Renderosity.com they have tons and tons of forums and resources for newbies and veterans alike.
  5. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    Well... I've added all of these to the LINKS list on the site. So there's no reason for people to ask anymore where this is or that is... like somebody has a secret place that only they know about. Any of these places could be found with a GOOGLE search too.
  6. fireresq7 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    That's funny I was just reading a thread on CG automoblies and right when I was going to respond to it...it dissappeared!!!

    Zoo I STRONGLYagree with you but don't go "lock thread" crazy!
    There are people out there that will ask without reading the sticky threads.
    Slowly people will listen including myself!
    ~Rory
  7. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    Yea I saw he said something about looking thru the sticky thread and didn't find what they wanted... so they decided to post in the regular forum "where I can find automobile tutorial for Blender". That's just unacceptable. I'm not gonna allow those kinda posts anymore. Why would anybody here have some sorta secret source for Blender auto tutorials? These kinda people need to do their own research. OR better yet go to the Blender forums and ask that. I'm gonna delete every single thread that pops up here like that. And if they keep doing it they will get banned. And it doesn't matter to me at all if this forum goes quiet. It's better that than get flooded with threads like this.

    I admire your desire to want to help every single person here... but it comes down to what we want the forum to be. It's not a gathering ground for people who don't want to do their own research, want somebody to make something for them, etc.
  8. fireresq7 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Why would anybody here have some sorta secret source for Blender auto tutorials?
    I don't think people see it as them holding a secret. But sometimes when people ask for something, it doesnt mean people are hiding things from people,it's just that not everyone has a chance to share everything with everyone at the sametime. Thus resulting in repedative questions. Or it could be that someone has a specific model and never shared it until someone (person requesting in thread) reminded them.

    ~Rory
  9. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    Like I've already said.. this is not a Blender support forum. If there are things like that all over the place, but are hard to find, it won't be here. And if there are people who may have something for Blender and you just need their memory jogged by a request thread... this is not the place to ask. This person needs to go to a Blender specific thread at SFM, CGnetworks, etc... or to a Blender forum site. We just can't support all these people. Our forums are not deisgned for this... nor was their initial purpose meant for this. And I can't have 20 sticky threads.
  10. Jedi2016 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    I still don't think the single-thread idea will work very well... half a dozen different questions, with three or four answers to each, all within ONE thread? Good luck trying to navigate that one...
  11. ObiMcD Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    (2). How do I do this or that?
    (3). Where can I find this or that?
    (4). Can somebody do this or that for me?


    Pardon me, but isn't that what this forum is for? Isn't it for finding out how to do stuff and learning about doing CG. Granted some questions are redundant, but let's face it, so are a lot of concepts. Also, this is a thread to find people to help you out. Granted there's a sticky for requests and stuff, but nobody reads it, I challenge you to find 3 people who've actually found help from the requests thread. With that said I shall disappear into the night.
  12. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    Whether it is or not is really irrelevant. This is not a REQUESTS forum. It's not really supposed to be for any of all those subjects we're trying to control. But it is better that this stuff is under control instead of it making every thread on the forum hard to navigate. Just look at all the good threads I resurrected.

    And if anybody knows about rules, forums, and trying to conform the new people that would be you and LWG. There's nothing but rules over there. I even visited and talked with a couple admins at SCIFI-MESHES about this too. They don't even allow some of these threads. I was trying to see if there was somewhere over there where people can discuss some of these things. In fact, they are doing what we're doing by trying to put together FAQ's for some things like "which app is best". It's been open here for a long time but the days of posting what you want wherever you want is over. And that's no different than any other forum out there. Plus not to mention the fact that we just aren't designed for this unlike other forums... and even they don't allow this stuff.
  13. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    It doesn't matter what people "THINK" the forum might be for. I'm telling you what it "IS" for... and it's not for those kinda posts. I run the forum and I'm telling you what it's for. I really have no desire to debate every single thing with every single person.

    I've spent way more time discussing this than I would like to but I have a desire to try to get people's understanding.

    If it's a good legitate, technical question, then it's allowed. If it's something stupid it'll probably be deleted or at least closed. There are good and bad questions. People know the difference. And a question thread on "how-to" can not masquerade as a "request" thread.

    I'm not gonna even debate something silly like this. No matter what you think about the REQUESTS thread that's the way it is. I feel the same thing you guys do. I post requests at Kaydara, SFM, Kinetix, etc. All over the place. And I wonder.. if somebody will see this. And more often than not... I get no replies. But that's life. And they have areas for those types of posts. You can't just post whatever you want wherever you want... at any forum on the net.
  14. LordPhobos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Hopefully this isn't off topic here, but this thread got me to thinking.

    Why is it that the SciFi 3d forums are run on such a poor forum program? I don't mean to criticize at all, so please don't think I am, but when you compare these TFN forums to places such as SciFi-Meshes, I think you can see quite a difference.

    I personally think it would help a great deal if everything related to SciFi3d wasn't crammed into one forum. If we were able to have forums that had multiple sections, I think things could be managed a little more neatly. Like if we had a breakdown like:

    General Section
    - Fanfilm Requests
    - Sci-Fi movie discussion

    2d/3d Section
    - 2d Art
    - 3d Art
    ---- WIP
    ---- Finished
    - N00bie's needing help

    That may not be the best way to go about it, but I think having it set up that way would help a great deal. And even if someone posts a newbie question in the wrong forum, a couple clicks and Zoo can move it to the right forum. And if it's ignored forever, so be it, the only people that would see it are people that go to the newbie forums to help newbies out.

    If anyone thinks that this is impossible for financial reasons, check out a program called phpBB. I've used it before, it's free, and it's just as good as VBulletin or any of those other forum programs. All it needs is PHP installed on the server.

    Some food for thought...
  15. ScaPaCamem Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2003
    star 4
    Do what you want but I think your being to much like a dictator. Telling people no you cannot ask for help and telling them they cannot do other stuff. Eventually people are going to stop using this forum.
  16. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    I can understand why people who are kinda against some of these ideas are people have enjoyed posting what they want where they want for quite awhile. Going all the way back to page 15 I saw alot of these posts we don't want in the main area anymore being posted by these same people. You guys are just gonna have to accept the reality of the situation. You can not post what you want where you want... ANYWHERE. So you'll have to deal with these rules wherever you got. It's not dictatorship. It's called organization. Unfortunately people aren't gonna just do what they should on their own so organizations have to make rules. Sorry if it upsets people.

    LordPhobos:
    I tried long time ago twice to move our forums to SCIFI-MESHES, start them up at another forum on a free bullitin board, try to start our own at the same place, and I even tried to just kill this forum so we could move. Nothing has ever worked. So I'm not really up to putting alot of time into any of those ideas again. Alot of the problems are my fault b/c I've allowed people to just do what they want with little to no rules. I pretty much only enforced the basic stuff like language, etc. But people are starting to post good stuff so I think it's worth putting more time into now.

  17. diabloblanco17 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 3
    Granted there's a sticky for requests and stuff, but nobody reads it, I challenge you to find 3 people who've actually found help from the requests thread.

    Actually, I've helped at least that many directly from their posts in the Requests thread. Two turned into actual texture work, and one or two others were simply answering a question or clearing up an issue.

    But does anyone else find it mildly ironic that the way to "clean up" the forum is to load the first page with sticky threads?
  18. fireresq7 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    I just wanna point out, that on the fan film sites people -even though there are stickys- still create a "how to make a light saber thread" and even though some people get bothered noone really shuts the thread down? It's just gonna keep happening weather the want it to or not.

    And even though you think the forum shouldn't be this way, instead of fighting it why not just go with it? Because obviously, if this is what everyone wants why not leave it like that? No harm is really coming to this? I don't understand what?s the big deal, so what if it gets crammed!, Is there a space limit or something? The fan film section is full of topics that never get answered or they are useless, and they are running just fine.



    ~Rory
  19. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    Yea funny. But life itself is ironic and complex.

    The Fan Films forum. Jeesh. That place is hard to keep up with. The turnover there is really fast. But we all have always suffered b/c of the poor forum technology that TFN has used. I don't know why they do it. It's been that way forever. Must be a money thing. It costs alot to support all these people. There are an awful lot of people in the TFN forums. But they could really be helped alot by better forums too.

    That's a matter of personal opinion whether or not you think they are running fine. Just running is not good enough for me. They actually have to have a purpose and be easy to navigate and find stuff. It needed to be organized and not overrun by floods of requests and stuff. Like I said... I don't care what Fan Films is doing... if you look anywhere, any forum, they are organized like this. And they don't even have places for threads like "which app is best". They just delete those.

    This whole thing reminds me of when we were pushing people to start using credits on images, animations, etc. People were so used to not doing it they fought it tooth and nail. But it was a community-wide effort to change this or authors were gonna stop sharing stuff. It was getting that bad. And I argued with people all day. Opinions are fine.. but they don't really mean anything to anybody but to you. In the end we have to rise above opinions. More often than not they are just based on emotions, irrationality, illogic, and misinformation. So look beyond your "opinions" and see the truth in this. Plus, I'm just not interested in debating everybody's opinions for hours and hours. We all got better things to do.
  20. G-Unit Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2004
    star 4
    I must agree with firesq on this. People when they visit this site are more often than not looking for either help because they simply do not have experience in animation or need advice on somethng because they are still testing the waters on their animating skills. It helps to be open to these people, but I guess the Requests thread solves that problem as long as some people actually get a response once in awhile. Mind you I am not questioning your authority, but merely suggesting you keep an open mind.
  21. GuanoLad Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 3
    You say this:
    This is not a REQUESTS forum.

    But you also say this:
    It's a place... ...for members to share work, tips/advice, knowledge/information.


    I can't see that these are much different. Unless you're suggesting members should volunteer information in the form of tutorials or something?

    Maybe you're limiting the kinds of requests you'll allow? In that case, clarification is in order.

    I'm all for you tidying up your forums and eliminating redundancy, but I think you need to make it very clear to every person who visits this forum in the future just what the limits are. I can't see how you can do that very easily, considering how incredibly badly designed these forum pages are (too much real estate is taken up by messy menus and unecessarily large graphics).
  22. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    I am VERY open-minded. I just think alot of you guys who are beginners in this crazy world of CGI are gonna have to make some adjustments. We want to keep this forum in-line with the quality of work on the site and the community in general. It's not a Blender forum. It's not a "noob" forum. It's just not. And in a way I have to kinda wrestle control of it back from you guys b/c I've let people just post what they want for a long long time... except for a few instances where I have stepped in over the past 12 months or so. You guys need to re-think how you look at this forum. Maybe you don't feel comfortable here anymore. There are plenty of places that are friendly to beginners. You can post whatever image you want, any question you want. There are places where people want to answer any question you have. But here... we're kinda more like SCIFI-MESHES. We're not a CGnetworks... but we're not a POSER site either. So you guys have to re-think how you view this forum. Remember it's a SCIFI 3D forum. Remember? Have you visited lately and saw the type of work people are doing? In light of that it is kinda silly some of these posts people are making.

    And I know what you mean.. but I don't agree the "REQUESTS" thread solves the problem. I really feel bad about it. I really do. I know it's not a good solution. But I'm trying to get control of this forum and make it what we want it to be. For too long it's kinda become a newbie forum. And that runs off the good people. The better people the forum attracts the better work we'll see, the better advice and tips we'll get. We'll get nowhere with dumb threads. SO there's you have it. NOW can we stop debating???
  23. G-Unit Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2004
    star 4
    I agree with what you have to say and i think the debate can end there so we can get back to the real work.
  24. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    Guanolad: Uh... I think without picking pieces of what I said in different messages and splotching them together to make your own sentence.... I think you know exactly what I meant. No need to really address this opinion is there? If you really are that lost then I suggest re-reading all of my posts here and thinking about it again. You point is completely argumentative. And I really don't feel like arguing with anyone.

    There's nothing we can do about the forums. They are what they are. I could add a big huge section to the FAQ about this. But I think when you visit the forum and you see those big sticky threads it's pretty obvious what the rules are. Do I really need to make a manual for the forum that nobody would read anyway? It would take me alot of time to do that. The only thing that is hard, objective, and couldn't be covered by rules is quality. Like the post that was just done minutes ago that to me is nothing but a bunch of primatives. I think people need to use COMMON SENSE on this. Who honestly wants to see an image of boxes and stuff. Is that the kinda work you spend alot of time on and want to show off? SO I can't make a rule for stuff like that b/c it's and objective thing. But.. it's common sense man.





  25. GuanoLad Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 3
    I think you know exactly what I meant.

    No, I don't. That's why I asked. I am not a stupid person, but I find your intentions for your forum very ill defined.

    I wasn't being argumentative, I was asking you to clarify things for me. I am confused by your potentially contradictory statements. They aren't taken out of context, they are each referring to the same thing: what kinds of threads you will allow.

    What I've read so far is you getting apparently upset at what shouldn't be in your forums anymore, but what I think you need is to make a list of what should be in the forums you envisage. Yes, it will be a lot of work. Everything worth doing takes a lot of work. That's how life operates.

    I imagine what you want is a thriving community of talented artists who can share techniques with each other, but you can't do that easily without allowing the newbies in to ask their questions and ask for advice. Not without coming across as elitist or something, and I'm sure you don't want that to happen.

    The problem with common sense is that it's not that common. Everybody is an individual, and there will always be people who will do something that goes against whatever standards you think are set. If you do not set rules, then you get the kind of forums that you have now, and not the kind that you are hoping for.
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