Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by nld3, Aug 24, 2013.
I think Palpatine's opera house speech to Anakin in ROTS touches on that idea.
Nothing. The Sith in the movies are so boring and basically just cardboard baddies.
Could a Sith serve a non-Force-user?
I read those and I somehow doubt Lord Odion cared whether they would weaken each other or not. In what he wanted to do, create as much death as possible, he was very successful...
Daiman is even more insane.
Idiots? More like clinically insane, both of them.
When I said it was idiotic to go after each other I had Sith in mind who wanted to rule the galaxy/defeat the Jedi.
The Sith & Jedi have been fighting forever now you want them dead forever?
Do all Sith wear black cloaks, have yellow eyes, shoot lightning, and wield red lightsabers?
Anakin didn't wear a cloak till the end of RoTS. Didn't use a red lightsaber till after RoTS, too.
The EU has Exar Kun wield a blue (double ended) lightsaber after becoming Sith rather than a red one. And he's never depicted with yellow eyes.
I don't think Dooku ever got them either- despite nearly 13 years as a Sith.
I remember 2006. when they announced Legacy comics. We were fresh from ROTS, the saga was complete, the Sith destroyed and suddenly there they were, again. Over a hundred years after ROTJ the Sith were alive. I find that such a bad, trashy concept. The best example I can remember is Alien franchise. In the third movie Ripley died, that was it. It should have ended there. In this case I totally understand Chris Nolan who said: Unlike the comics, these things don't go on forever in film and viewing it as a story with an end is useful.
Now, I don't care about the EU. They can do whatever they want, even make LOTF 9 book series which is ROTS with another characters. I expect for the movies to be imaginative, not repetitive and mostly, because they're Star Wars, not trashy like Alien 4. As of now, we don't know anything about the ST's villains, they may even not be the Sith. That It's an original story gives me hope.
I have always equated the yellow eyes with rage. Maul was pure, seething rage and thus always had them.
And Palpatine gains them permanently in RoTS, during his fight with Mace (possibly he had them "permanently" before but concealed them).
Sith & Jedi are the Star Wars universe. They are the Ying & Yang of the Star Wars universe. Remove them & you end up with Star Trek!
He still has a point.
If the Sith returned, they should at least have evolved.
They did evolve. The Rule of 2 is gone. The One Sith is the way of things now.
Blame Palpatine. Its his fault. Destroyed the Jedi Order and one of the Jedi fell to the Dark.
AT-STs, AT-ATs, Star Destroyers, Tie Fighters. X-Wings and Stormtroopers are totally Star Trek
I wouldn't say Vader was 'serving' Tarkin in ANH, but it appeared he was willing to take orders from him. or at the very least, follow his lead. So I'd say it's at least possible for a Sith to serve with a non-Force user as either an equal or near-equal.
I looked beneath that cloak, and all I saw was a power-hungry madman.
Power hungry is an idea.
Pre-RoTS materials (like the Original Trilogy Visual Dictionary) referred to Vader as "Tarkin's right-hand man, once written off as mad human wreckage, now growing increasingly in the favour of the Emperor".
Later there was a move away from this- with Vader being Palpatine's right hand man from immediately after RoTS.
ROT was already gone in TESB.
That said, Vader is at least aware of its existence- in the EU:
"What is thy bidding, my Master?"
From light years away, on Coruscant, the Emperor replied, "There is a great disturbance in the Force."
"I have felt it," Vader said.
"We have a new enemy. The young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker."
Offspring?! The surviving tissue in Vader's throat suddenly went dry. Through his shock, he managed to say, "How is that possible?"
Without offering any explanation to support his stated conviction, the Emperor answered, "Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us."
Having fought Luke Skywalker on Mimban, Vader was even more aware of the young man's powers than was the Emperor. But he also knew something else; Luke was as ignorant of their familial connection as Vader had been. If he had known the truth on Mimban, Vader thought, I would have sensed it. Still grappling with the Emperor's declaration, he struggled to find words that might discourage his Master's interest in Skywalker. "He is just a boy," Vader said. "Obi-Wan can no longer help him."
The Emperor believed otherwise. "The Force is strong with him," he said. "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."
The Emperor had not said in so many words that he wanted Luke Skywalker dead, so Vader — needing Skywalker alive to accmplish his goals — took a different tack. "If he could be turned," Vader suggested, "he would become a powerful ally."
"Yes," the Emperor mused, as if he had not thought of that possibility. Vader could only imagine what the Emperor was thinking. The Sith had long maintained their rule of two: one Master, one apprentice. Even Vader knew that there wasn't room enough in the galaxy for three Sith Lords, and yet the Emperor's hooded eyes seemed to sparkle as he said more emphatically, "Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?"
"He will join us or die, Master," Vader said. He bowed, and the Emperor's hologram faded out.
Now that the Emperor was interested in Luke Skywalker's fate, Vader knew he had to do everything in his power to find Luke before the Emperor found him.
And the line in RoTJ: "fulfil your destiny - and take your father's place at my side" could be taken as an exhortation to kill Vader in order to take his place- as well as an acknowledgement that only one person can be "at the Emperor's side".
If we start arguing EU, I could add Darth Plagueis, where the RoT got dropped.
"It's more like guideline than actual rule."
However, just because Plagueis thought its time was over, doesn't mean Palpatine thought so- at least, not back then:
Palpatine to Plagueis, in Darth Plagueis, p447-448
Sidious paused, then, in derision, added, "Plagueis the Wise, who in his time truly was, except at the end, trusting that the Rule of Two had been superseded, and failed to realize that he would not be excused from it. Plagueis the Wise, who forge the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy has ever known, and yet who forgot to leave a place for himself; whose pride never allowed him to question that he would no longer be needed."
Sidious's eyes bored into the Muun's.
"How often you said that the old order of Bane's had ended with the death of your Master. An apprentice no longer needs to be stronger, you told me, merely more clever. The era of keeping score, suspicion, and betrayal was over. Strength is not in the flesh but in the Force."
He laughed. "You lost the game on the very first day you chose me to rule by your side - or better still, under your thumb. Teacher, yes, and for that I will be eternally grateful. But Master - never."
So sayeth the guy who employed "emperor's hands", "inquisitors" and all other manner of dark side users who were Sith in all but name. In the EU the RoT doesn't really apply and in TESB it doesn't either. At times it seems like an in-joke of the Sith, a strange tradition they keep around for whatever reason but never follow.
True. And Darth Maul, telling Plagueis Maul was to be more of an assassin than a "true" apprentice - but giving him a lot more Sithly background info than he tended to give his later Dark Side minions.
With The Clone Wars, it seems clear that Maul was a lot more important to Sidious than just a "hand".
Actually, it's a character trait, and character traits aren't ideas. If I fall in love with somebody, is that an "idea"?