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Speculation What things about the Sith should be Explored in Episode 7?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by nld3, Aug 24, 2013.

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What things about the Sith should be Explored in Episode 7?

  1. Sith History

    78 vote(s)
    54.2%
  2. Sith Temple

    46 vote(s)
    31.9%
  3. Sith Army

    25 vote(s)
    17.4%
  4. Sith Training

    45 vote(s)
    31.3%
  5. Origin of the Red Saber

    26 vote(s)
    18.1%
  6. New Sith Order : Eliminating the failed Rule of Two.

    68 vote(s)
    47.2%
  7. Other

    27 vote(s)
    18.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    "Falling in love" is an idea. "Character trait" is an idea.

    All ideas are made up of language; all language is made up of ideas. All actions and events are semiotically packed with language. You can't get beyond language and ideas. What you take to be natural are all socially produced constructs (made of language and ideas).

    That's why ideology is so powerful and difficult to destroy.
     
  2. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    [​IMG]
    Passions are not ideas. I'm sorry. An animal that's alone its entire life would still have passions.
     
  3. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    What you're talking about is a human concept. "Passions" is an idea. In fact, I doubt any biologist would describe animal "drives" or "instincts" that way. It's too human centric. They would use different language and concepts. Over time, these concepts might change.

    That doesn't mean that there isn't some real phenomena out there in the world that language aims to describe. But the only way we can talk about "thing-in-themselves" is through language and ideas. Hence, everything is an idea.

    All of Western and Eastern philosophy, including science, embrace this concept. Even science talks of "phenomena" rather than "noumena." The noumena are the "thing-in-themselves" that we can only know through human social constructs. Reality is mediated through language.
     
  4. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Let's create a planet. Planets are ideas, after all. Let's resurrect George Washington. George Washington is an idea, after all.
     
  5. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012

    You're still not understanding the difference between phenomena and noumena.

    Let's say you have planet making technology. You wouldn't be able to make a planet without the idea of what a planet is.

    Let's say you have cloning technology. You wouldn't be able to make a George Washington without a whole range of linguistic and ideational data about what his "identity" was made up of. Identity is a social construct. You could produce an exact clone of GW, but if you didn't fill his mind up with the same ideas and language, you wouldn't have GW.

    Anyway, if you really want to argue this position, take a philosophy class. Just because you don't understand a well-accepted concept, I shouldn't have to be your teacher. :)
     
  6. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I did.
     
  7. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Take more than one.
     
  8. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Who was their founder? Darklighter, Xendor, and Darth Ruin have all been said to be the founder of the Sith, but each one of them has that role in history retconned away from them.
     
  9. Dameron

    Dameron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2014

    Lucas didn't so much paint himself into a corner, as paint everyone else into it. He wanted to give great importance to his movie characters, so he made what he needed and then said "No more" to avoid dilution. All giving greater weight to what happens -- if Palpatine is killed, there aren't 10 more evil robed guys waiting to take over. If Luke is killed, the Rebellion can't just dial up another Force-sensitive young pilot and try again . In the OT, we have Vader and the Emperor on one side and Luke, Obi-Wan, and Yoda on the other (okay, and Leia, that one time). In the PT, we get plenty more heroes, but only two more evil Force users for them to fight: Maul and Dooku. That's really not a whole lot of matchups to have, but it's plenty for the six movies. And as far as the movies go, it's enough.

    But the EU writers have been twisting and turning under these restrictions for decades. We want new lightsaber battles with new combatants, and they want to give them to us. In the process, they have created a tumorous mass of mutated plot points. That led to one of the worst aspects of the Clone Wars series: they can't let the good guys win any lightsaber battles that matter, because they don't dare waste their precious Sith!

    It also makes being a Sith seem more like a chore than an awesome apex of evil power. You have to fight pretenders to the title, kill your master, make your apprentice kill his apprentice, then get your apprentice killed and replace him, and it usually doesn't work and he comes back for revenge -- the plotlines surrounding the Rule of Two make being a Sith so much extra work, it's hard to imagine why any bad guy would aspire to the post!

    Hopefully Disney can unpaint this corner and harmonize the movies with the EU of the future in terms of what villains are available.
     
    Darth_Pevra and D'an like this.
  10. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Why is Lucas painting?
     
  11. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    I'm curious as to whether or not the treatments describe whatever role the Sith have in the ST. I don't want Disney adding in things about, say, balance between Jedi and Sith.
     
  12. Airseven

    Airseven Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 21, 2013
    Nothing regarding the PT or EU should be explored in Episode VII.
     
    Scummy_and_Villainous likes this.
  13. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2013
    [​IMG]
     
    rdhight likes this.
  14. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    George hasn't looked like that for years. But, he did look like that...
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  15. D'an

    D'an Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Well there's no back story in the movies for Palpatine's fall to the dark side. No back story for Darth Maul. Very little back story for Dooku. I don't think another Sith Lord appearing out of thin air for the ST would be that shocking. If there's anything the Sith is good at; it's hiding.
     
    rdhight and The Hellhammer like this.
  16. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    And that's something that I expect the Jedi to expect. Fool the Jedi once, shame on the Sith; fool the Jedi twice, shame on the Jedi.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  17. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    You can't get fooled again

     
  18. SomethinSomethinDarkSide

    SomethinSomethinDarkSide Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2013
    This is exactly what I want too. :)
     
  19. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I want to know why only a Sith deals in absolutes!
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  20. D'an

    D'an Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Remember your failure in the cave... It the Dark Side can manifest itself in various ways, perhaps one does not necessarily need to be seduced by a Sith lord. One only needs temptation.
     
  21. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    It's all about language, Tiger :)
     
    Darth_Articulate and Dra--- like this.
  22. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    The dark side is definitely a distinct entity from the Sith. The dark side is a natural part of the balance of The Force, the Sith are a cancerous aberration.
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  23. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Interesting take. I tend to believe the darkside can only exist in living things that experience emotion.
     
  24. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    That's definitely possible, and the same could be true of the light side, but keep in mind that the dark side existing in someone, someone being a darksider, and someone being a Sith are three different things.
     
    Darth_Articulate and Dra--- like this.
  25. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    I think I absolutely agree with that. I'm just not sure if it exists in anything else. Maybe beasts. But rocks? Hm...