What to do about Bullies?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Jedi_Xen, Aug 3, 2003.

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  1. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    This Friday my nephew came home from Daycare upset because some kid is picking on him. Ive seen this kid when Ive picked my nephew up before. This angers me, mostly because I can relate. Throughout grade school and up to the 8th grade I was the kid who was picked on by everyone, I was the one who was beaten up, apparently because I was there.

    Every child wants to be accepted, I did, and my nephew does, but because they are smaller or sometimes just because, some kid decides to target them, and constantly harrassed. In the 1990's it took a terrible trend, name calling and bullying led to school shootings, and suicides, leaving us as a society to stick our head in the sand and ask why.

    It is a fact, most of the kids who went into schools armed for war in all the school shootings were the ones who were constantly picked on and ridiculed. Even the media is divided about the issue, one male commentator had it out with a female commentator about the situation when he suggested the bullies got what they deserved, a radical statement, her reply was just as bad though, when she said that school bullies have always been with us and we need to just accept them. Indeed school bullies have always been with us, but then again so have rapists and murderers, should we just accept them too?

    Another disturbing trend is the teachers care little or are powerless to do anything about. In a survey teachers admitted to knowing about it 90% of the time. Disturbingly they admitted doing something about 75% of the time. A survey done amongst children say teachers are only aware of less than 50% of the time, most feel the teachers are too afraid to do anything about it.

    The bully isnt and shouldnt be part of our society, and school houses should be made safe of them. It is difficult to learn in an environment where you are terrified, and often ridiculed. Im not going to get into the longterm psychological damage it does to a child for being bullied. I can look at myself in this regard, to this day I think back to my school bullies, and I hate them, its been over 10 years since I had to put up with a bully, and if I knew I could make one suffer now the way they made me suffer then, I would not hesitate to do it, in fact I think I would enjoy it, even delight in it.

    My personal rant aside what is it that we as a society can do to prevent bullying? Should the teachers be required to do more? Should kids have to put up with being bullied? Are the kids who shoot bullies justified? What are your thoughts on the topic of School Bullies?

    KK EDIT: Locking for now. We'll try again in a few days.

    KK EDIT 2: Let's try this again.
  2. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    what is it that we as a society can do to prevent bullying?

    Not too much. The individual school districts can make stricter rules where it's a problem, but the teachers have to enforce them, and we can't be sure that they will 24/7.

    Should the teachers be required to do more?

    They should be more harshly reprimanded for letting bullying go unpunished.

    Should kids have to put up with being bullied?

    It's on the parents and the teachers to instill a sense of discipline in these children and stop bullying when they see it.

    Are the kids who shoot bullies justified?

    Hell no. This is why teachers and administrators should be armed on campus. School shootings would be a thing of the past.
  3. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    The bully isnt and shouldnt be part of our society, and school houses should be made safe of them

    Completely untrue.

    Bullies themselves are often (or usually) troubled individuals, especially in childhood. As I look back on my own childhood, I can see people who were obviously having major problems of their own, yet didn't get the help that they needed.

    Ostracizing bullies is the worst and most inhumane thing you can do. Better to confront them and figure out what's going on.
  4. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Right, don't ostracize them. Punish them when they pick fights with other kids, and try and get them counseling or something if it's really bad.
  5. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Ostracizing bullies is the worst and most inhumane thing you can do. Better to confront them and figure out what's going on

    They can stay, but the bullying must go. If they continue to bully than society must protect itself and put the bullies out of the way by sending them to juvenile hall. Of course there, they'd probably be picked on and beaten up by the bigger kids, a taste of their own medicine, and in a way justice.

    Really I dont see much of a difference of punishing bullies as we punish those who commit crimes, in fact bullying is a crime, the only reason they arent arrested is because they are kids.
  6. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Yes, but might you want to look at the particular causes of the bullying and put a stop to it (helping both the people being bullied and the bully as well)?
  7. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah, really. Sending a kid to juvenile hall because he stole another kid's lunch money doesn't strike me as very just, especially when bullies are still young enough to learn their lesson and change their ways.
  8. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    I am talking more than stealing lunch money or one strike punishments. I am talking about dealing with major problem in schools, it is highly unfair to expect a kid to go to school when he or she is being abused mentally, physically or verbally. It can be detrimental to their mental state of being, they can become detatched, suicidal and homicidal.

    Im talking like the kind of kids who bullied me when I was a youngster, I was terrified to leave my own yard because of them. No kid should have to put up with what I had to for as long as I had to because the school system refused to do anything about it.
  9. chibiangi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 4
    I think it is up to the teachers to identify and refer bullies to the proper channels. However, there are plenty of cases where the teachers are doing their jobs and referring bullies only to have an administrator (principal) bow down to parents and make the student "off limits" to the teachers. This is especially true if the said bully is a school "star". After a couple of run-ins like that, the teacher is going to give up and just let the bullies have their way.

    So, I think it is up to the schools to develop ways to deal with bullies and follow through with them. Without the follow though on all levels, it's absolutely useless.
  10. yodashizzzle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    in my experiences, i've seen kids who were bullied become bullies. there's like a kind of sliding scale. heck, lot's of kids rib and tease each other. most kids do that, actually. but the kind of kids who physically beat others up usually have a run in with someone who stands up for themselves or an even bigger bully. it definitely is an indication of some other issues going on when a kid is a bully, but i say that bullies usually get their just deserves eventually and either mellow out and start acting right or they sink into alcohol and drug problems as adults. it's just screwed up coping mechanisms. sometimes they get merged with other inappropriate things, but i really think kids are able to figure out that there's always gonna be someone bigger and meaner in life to knock them down a peg when they start to bully other kids. the problem takes care of itself a lot of times. kids wise up to the fact that you can't go around pounding others for their milk money without incurring some consequences that usually put a kid on a different path.
  11. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Im talking like the kind of kids who bullied me when I was a youngster, I was terrified to leave my own yard because of them. No kid should have to put up with what I had to for as long as I had to because the school system refused to do anything about it.[/i]

    That sound like what happened with me.

    But about Bullies. I don't care what kind of problems they have. What they do to other kids is a lot worse then what is going on in there life. They mock kids, hit, do what ever they want. Instead of then pushing them we try to figure out why they did that. I don't care WHY they bullied someone else. All I care about is that someone in the school puts a stop to it. I don't want to get to know them because they really don't care about my feelings, they don't really care about what they are doing to there peers when the bullie them. I don't feel sorry for bullies who have a bad home life. Because that is no execuies(sp) for what they do to others.
  12. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Amen. I guess it takes being bullied around most of your childhood life to understand what we feel. I personally feel I was robbed, especially the 4 years of between 5-8 grade, and I want those years back. Where is my justice? I didnt deserve what happened to me, nor did you deserve what happened to you.

    I guess this is one of those things where people try to feel sorry for the bully and to hell with the victim. Sad sad world.
  13. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I guess this is one of those things where people try to feel sorry for the bully and to hell with the victim. Sad sad world.

    How about feeling sorry and helping both

    It's sad to see how injust people wish to be to bullies. I know plenty well what it's like to be bullied, and as I said earlier, I know now that many of those kids were likely demonized at home and/or not parented well at all. Several years of mine were spent dealing with various bullies, and I wonder why so few people bothered to help either me or them. I'd rather have everyone helped, as opposed to some kind of vengeful justice.

    What would be far more helpful for all involved is for an authority figure to firmly stop a bully, attend to the victim(s) and then find out what's behind the behavior.

    I'm not sure I'll ever understand the desire some people have to only treat the symptoms, as opposed to getting the root cause.
  14. Grand Admiral Thran Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 1999
    star 4
    Eh...

    It's not that big of a deal.

    I was both 'bullied' and I 'bullied' others. In grade school I was bullied, and in high school I bullied. I've only been hit a few times, and vice versa. Nothing more than a single punch or two, maybe a kick. Never got 'beat up.'

    Most of it was verbal, tearing people to shreds through mockery and belittling both ways.

    Just a part of growing up. Anyone who breaks down and shoots up a school had mental problems to begin. It's called children growing up and learning how to deal with their own peers, problems, and socialization. There are extreme cases, sure, but there always is. Those who speed over the limit by 5 miles, and those who do it by 50. For those who are troubled, get them mental help, for those who aren't, just slap a detention on the bully or have a chat with the parents.

    It's not that big of a problem. It's so exaccerbated by the media and attention getters who copy things like Columbine where there really are cases of mental disturbance.

    We can't get so PC to where EVERYTHING is a condition and social disorders just wrack this country all the time, needing more drugs to dope these kids up on. Haven't a clue what they will do to them in the next 10, 15, 30, 50 years. Look at Ritlian and all the problems it causes in children.

    Bottom line: Thick skin and strong emotional base should be built in school and socialisation with other children. This is what makes people stable and 'sane'.

    -GAT
  15. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    We can't get so PC to where EVERYTHING is a condition and social disorders just wrack this country all the time, needing more drugs to dope these kids up on. Haven't a clue what they will do to them in the next 10, 15, 30, 50 years. Look at Ritlian and all the problems it causes in children.


    Ritalin (and similar drugs) can and does work wonders for those it's appropriate for. Like many good things, it's overused and misused by many in the medical and psychiatric community.

    That's for another thread, but I can assure you that there is plenty of evidence to the contrary of that generalization.
  16. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    Just out of wonder, is this about the serious nature of bullying, or are we allowed to post any story's, funny or not funny, that relate to bullying?
  17. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    If I ever have kids, I'm going to make sure that they fight the bullies, and deal as much damage as possible without killing them. I'm going to make sure they know how to break ribs, break noses, knock teeth out, use common objects as weapons, and make sure the bully ends up in the hospital for at least a week. And if the bully comes back for more, I'll make sure that they'll do double the damage. My kids will be vicious. But that's what bullies deserve.
  18. Grand Admiral Thran Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 1999
    star 4
    Keep in mind, that solves nothing but making YOUR kids into bullies.

    If they can strike someone, get away with it, it gives the sense of power and opens the gateway to the 'dark side' if you will.

    In any case, violence isn't the answer because violence begets more violence. How would you like to see your child with a concussion because the bully got friends and gang-beat him? Or knifed and laying in the city morgue with a large hole in his stomach? Especially at early puberty children do not see the results of their actions always, and act in haste/emotion. Careful what you teach your child, because it will come back on them.

    What goes around -- Comes around.
    -GAT
  19. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    I think different bullying has different effects. People also deal with it differently, and there are also levels of bullying.


    I hate the "you bring it upon yourself" mentality, or the "grow a thicker skin" one that most people throw out when it comes to bullying. No-one brings bullying upon themselves, and growing a thicker skin, or ignoring the constant teasing, taunts and jibes about weight, height, apperance or anything else often makes the bully try harder.


    I know the psychology behind why kids bully, but it doesn't make me any more sympathetic to them. I was bullied badly throughout my entire highschool years. I doubt my teachers knew it was going on as it was so insidious. In fact I think they first worked it out when I finally snapped in grade ten, shoved my desk and chair across the room, screamed at the bully in my class and left the school. I can understand why kids snap and go on rampages. Although I believe it to be absolutely wrong in every way to take another person's life or seriously harm them - I can understand if they snapped because of bullying. There is only so much a person can take when it comes to being hit, or mental jibes. The school I was in claimed I had brought it upon myself (hell, if I had known I was in four five years of torment I would have run the other way) and the bully was threatened with a suspension if she ever did it again. The only reason she stopped was that two of my close friends threatened to beat her up if they ever saw or heard her doing it again.


    Although schools should take more responsibility if bullying is reported - I don't honestly know what they can do past a certain level. Bullies do need help, and threatening them (on a teacher level) often doesn't help and sometimes can make the problem worse.

    Anyway, that's my early morning ramble...

    Kithera
  20. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Ardens has the right idea, although I'm not sure I'd take it to that extent. Teach your kids to defend themselves. That's the prime goal. Make sure that anybody who bullies your kid is gonna get some pain for his trouble. Then worry about sorting out why the bully bullies, what sort of problems he has, etc.

    A bullied child beating a bully senseless is not itself bullying, it's defense, not only for himself, but it'll make the bully think twice before messing with any other kids too.

    Most bullies don't have any experience fighting someone with any sort of training. They don't even expect their victims to fight back. Just a few simple self defense lessons can turn the tables right quick. If you want more extensive training, there's lots of options. You could go with something brutally practical like krav maga or a silat, or something with some spiritual guidance like aikido. I'm not usually a big fan of TKD, but something with some high kicks is good for the suprise factor, as kicks above knee level are rarely used in schoolyard fights, in my experience.

    I've found that a shot to the balls followed by a few swift kicks to the ribs works wonders :)

    (buy your children steel toe shoes also, I've worn them since 6th grade and they have served me well)
  21. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Most of it was verbal, tearing people to shreds through mockery and belittling both ways.

    Just a part of growing up. Anyone who breaks down and shoots up a school had mental problems to begin. It's called children growing up and learning how to deal with their own peers, problems, and socialization.


    ?[face_plain] uh

    You mean belittling people is part of growing up. You mean making fun of people to the point that they do not socialization have no frineds and wish they were dead is part of growing up.

    That's what bullies do to those kids. They mock them to the point that they wish they were dead. I was made fun of form 1st the why up to 12th grade. Each and ever one of those people that made fun of me took away the one thing that I needed friendship. They did not care about me one bit. So why should I care about them? They don't need help they need a good beating. They need to grow up.

    Making fun of people to the point that they can not socialization with others is not part of growing up.

    Edit:
    A bullied child beating a bully senseless is not itself bullying, it's defense, not only for himself, but it'll make the bully think twice before messing with any other kids too.

    Most bullies don't have any experience fighting someone with any sort of training. They don't even expect their victims to fight back. Just a few simple self defense lessons can turn the tables right quick.


    Yup that's what I learnd. Show them they are nothing. Show them that they are the smalliest thing on earth for what they do to you and others. Defending yourself is what you need to do. I never wanted to be there freinds because really I do not want to be freinds with people who hurt other peoples feelings like that.

    If you want to help these bullies fine. But that really will not stop them. Must no a lot of them will keep doing it. They just don't really care, and using well they have a bad home life. Well so what. I don't really care how bad it is they had no right to do what they did to me. They had no right to take away part of my childhood the way they did.
  22. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Yes, and Thran, might I point out your fondness for D/s games; might have something to do with all the bullying as a child ;)
  23. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    In any case, violence isn't the answer because violence begets more violence.

    So what are they supposed to do? Sit there and try to reason with the bastards? Oooh, let's tell on the big mean bullies, so the teacher would talk to the bully and then have my kid be seen as a tattle-tale, inviting more bullying.

    Well, either that, or chain the bullies to a pole and give them 50 lashings.

    And if I find out they hurt my kids, I will personally go and deal with it myself.

    buy your children steel toe shoes also, I've worn them since 6th grade and they have served me well

    Yep, that and also a good brick. I remember in grade 1 a grade 8 bully beat me up, so I got up on top of the slide and smashed a brick into his head. He didn't come to school after that for two weeks. And he didn't know I threw it.
  24. Grand Admiral Thran Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 1999
    star 4
    Yes, and Thran, might I point out your fondness for D/s games; might have something to do with all the bullying as a child

    ...Could be...could be.

    I could see a sexual behavor psychatrist to determine what stems my strong draw to such play, but why waste money to know why I like something? :p

    Bottom line is I get to be Marquis de Sade mark II and have my own pet slavel to take care of and serve me. :D

    That's all that really matters ;)
    -GAT
  25. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Theres nothing wrong with teaching them Karate or some other form of self defense, it teaches them self discipline. I would my kids when and if I have them to know how to fight back, and if the school board tries to suspend them I hate to do it but I will slap a law suit on them so fast their crap will turn orange. It is a right of every citizen of this nation to feel safe and it is they have the right to pursue happiness, and it is against the law for anybody to infringe upon those rights. That includes bullies.

    And no I dont see it as a right of passage, to say it is such is ludicrous, and it has nothing to do with PC, it has everything to do with our God given rights, bullies infringe upon those rights. And last I checked assault was a felony. Telling a kid to just accept the bully is like telling a woman to just accept the rapist.

    As a kid I was terrified to leave my yard, because my bully so much happened to live in my neighborhood. One time in school, he jump kicked me in the head as I sat in my desk doing my math homework. I had one of those metal coat hangers nearly go in my eye, and its just dumb luck I didnt lose that eye, or it didnt impale my skull. I could have been killed, blinded or had brain damage. And you think this is acceptable? It is something I must conquer to be a better person? I whole heartedly disagree. I dont like looking back in my past and remember having to have an escort to go to the bathroom. I dont like remembering not feeling safe enough to go to the movies with my friends or go hang out at the mall or to even leave my damn yard. I still wake up at night hating myself for not ripping his throat out, he took four years of my life, four years I will never be able to get back no matter how desperatley I want them back.

    I even tried standing up to that little turd, being told if you stand up to a bully he will leave you alone. Not that guy, it encouraged him. Im sorry he wasnt human, he was a demon. I went to school with him from 5-8 grade and I wasnt the only one he did things too. He tackled one kid and beat his head onto the pavement only stopping when a teacher pulled him off, that kid he tackled still has scars on his face from that incident. He grabbed one of my friends at the top of the school stairs, slammed his head in the wall then pushed him down the steps just out of spite. And no matter what he did, the school board did nothing.

    Oh I was taken to the side and explained to that he had a tough life at home, and it wouldnt be right to suspend him. So instead of dealing with the bully, the school allowed him, to terrorize and physically assault a handful of us. Then turn their head when he did it. I even had one teacher drag me to the side and tell me I needed to quit getting in his way, that it wasnt fair to him. The only thing I did that made him want to beat me up is I breathed air. In this whole time we attended school together, my grades suffered dramatically, I was very sickly, I never had any color, and I barely slept. Thats alot for one kid to put up with for four years isnt it?

    So tell me again, why should I feel sorry for him? He had a tough homelife? So what? Because of him I had a tough homelife, I had a tough school life, I had no after school life. If he didnt move away when he did I probably would have killed myself, I felt like I was the most worthless human being ever to exist. And its his fault!

    No I do not feel sorry for him, nor do I accept this as being something necessary for my life. I rejoiced when my mother called me and told me that he had overdosed on drugs and died in a local hospital. I get satisfaction of being told it was a terrible ordeal for him to go through. He deserved death, he deserved the pain that came before he kicked the bucket. He was a waste of space and took up too much valuable oxygen.

    I do feel the pain these school shooters have. I dont understand why they shoot other kids, but I do understand their pain. We as a society need to examine ourselves, and shake our heads when people say it should be accepted.
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