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What to do about Bullies?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Jedi_Xen, Aug 3, 2003.

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  1. EnforcerSG

    EnforcerSG Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2001
    Ignoring them does not work. True story, this was me several years ago.

    It was in a school I didn't like, in art class, after working with clay. A few minutes before the end of class, I was in line to wash my hands. Some member of the younger male of the species were teasing me, poking me in my sides. I ignored their taunting for the past few months, clearly not working. In the few seconds before the incident I asked them to stop, told them to stop, and finally snapped and did a very clean sharp back kick in his groin (I had been taking karate for about 5 years at that point). That was the only time I ever snapped. The teacher later said she was about to tell the kid to stop, and it probably would have had as much permanent effect as when I told them to stop.

    It was very rare that I was ever teased at that school again. In fact the kid I kicked and I didn't exactly become friends, but we were closer than I was with most other kids at that school.

    I was scare out of my mind. I thought I was going to get detention or suspension (which never happened to me before). Apparently there were a few teachers who thought I should. Yet I didn't. My mother and I basically pointed out that the teachers did not do anything for months, or could not do anything effective. And what other choice would I have?

    There have always been bullies. The root cause may be genetic disposition, bad family, painful experiences, or just cause they are words stronger than the TOS will let me say. There is no real solution right now to make people not be bullies, and if there was, it is debatable that we should carry through with it. Ignoring may work in a few cases, yet aside from the fact that when they are in your face (or poking you) that is next to impossible, we need another solution.

    Fighting back is the last and final solution. Ignoring them didn't work for me. Trying to avoid them or not give them ammo didn't work for me. Joining them and picking on someone lower than me was out of the question (then I truly would be as low as them). One single instant changed my living hell of school to some place where I could actually learn.

    In my case, I was not as bad as them, or worse. I am reminded of a wonderful quote from Babylon 5: "Never start a fight, but always finish it."

    Fighting back is not the best solution, but it is the only one with a decent chance of success. My dad talks of many times he fought with a normal bully after school and all was fine. My experience with bullies has shown only one time where I stopped people from teasing me. Many I have talked to have said that ignoring has not worked for them, and it has been constant tormenting school year after school year.

    If someone just calls us a name or makes a joke in bad taste, it is no big deal. Doing it for years on end and getting worse after being told to stop by me and others leaves very little room for other options than some sort of force.
     
  2. Wonka

    Wonka Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Anidanami.......I'm afarid your answer is the reason I brought this up in the first place as most people like to think what you say is true. The fact is, your comments are simply not true and it's what we all kid ourselves because nost of us obviously don't like woman beaters/bullies (myself included). So why do we call these people cowards? Maybe you didn't read my post properly or understood what I was saying. Indeed it is an act of cowardice to beat a woman and to bully people weaker than yourself but if we are all honest with ourselves we would admit that bullies don't just pick on people weaker/smaller and the same goes for woman beaters.

    Although hard to admit, it does take some fortitude to be a bully and teh bully is often anything but a coward. The bullies I always knew were as tough as nails and not only did they pick on people weaker, they also picked on people much bigger/stronger like teachers and most of them would not even back down from the poilce. You will find it's similar with woman beaters I'm afraid. The average woman beater beats a woman not because he can't beat a man, it's normally because the woman is his partner which means she is more likely to be around him when he is angry. Like the bully, woman beaters are normally tough and will also beat most men who tried to stop them beating a women and believe me, most of them wouldn't hesitate.

    Like I said, the coward is usually the victims of these people as most of us don't don't do anything about it and it's usually because the woman beater/bullie is so tough is frightening. Although woman beating and bullying can be an act of cowardice, the people that do these things are normally not cowards. You will also find that woman beaters used to be bullies at school and the two have much in common which is normally an aggressive and violent nature. Although it's an awful thing to do, armed robbery is a crime that obviously takes alot of guts I'm afraid and armed robbery is a typical crime that these people often turn to. I also don't agree that commiting crimes like armed robbery are cowardly.

    It's actually more cowardly and easy to work and pay tax which is basically obaying the laws of society knowing you are in no danger. It's obviously dangerous to do an armed robbery and you are risking your freedom which takes more guts than most of us have. Anybody can get a job and pay tax but hardly anyone would have the courage to do such violent crimes which is obviously a good thing. Coward is what society likes to believe these people to be but it simply isn't true and trhe word "scum bag" or "low life" describes woman beaters/bullies much better as the fact is they are usually anything BUT cowards.
     
  3. Darth_Jeremy

    Darth_Jeremy Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    anidanami,

    From my experience, whining to a teacher about a bully NEVER works. Sometimes you have to be violent if they're provoking you. You can't keep relying on other people. If you do that, then you're screwed. Have you ever heard of "standing up for yourself"?
     
  4. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    If a man is besting on his wife or GF or any other woman he is a coward.

    From my experience, whining to a teacher about a bully NEVER works.[/i]

    Have you ever heard of good old disaplane. Tell the teacher then let the teacher hit the kid a few times on his back side.

    Sometimes you have to be violent if they're provoking you.

    If someone is calling you names and you hit them you should be kicked out of school for that.

    You can't keep relying on other people. If you do that, then you're screwed. Have you ever heard of "standing up for yourself"?

    Yeah let's just let there be fights all the time and schools. Let's not disaplane are kids any more. [face_plain]
     
  5. Darth_Jeremy

    Darth_Jeremy Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    So basically, you're saying that standing up for yourself is wrong, anidanami? If we just ignore bullies, they're just going to walk all over us. By the way, the bullies I dealt with never gave up no matter how much I ignored them. What do you say to that? [face_plain]
     
  6. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Ok if someone is being a bullie at let's say where you work. DO you start hitting them?

    I hope not you will be fired for that. There are rules in school if you don't want to go by them then you can be kiciked out. That simple. For the last time schools, and work places are not the streets of LA, New York, Det, or whatever other city you are in.
     
  7. Darth_Jeremy

    Darth_Jeremy Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    I'm not talking about bullies at work, I'm talking about bullies at school.

    Sometimes you just have to break the rules to defend yourself, even if you get punished.(I'm not talking about murder or rape)
     
  8. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Sometimes you just have to break the rules to defend yourself, even if you get punished.

    No you don't have to break the rules. That's what they have teachers for. That what they have staff there for. Don't take matter into your own hands. You are at school and there is to be no fighting at school.

     
  9. Special_Fred

    Special_Fred Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Tell the teacher then let the teacher hit the kid a few times on his back side.

    Yeah...see how long that teacher keeps their job...

    Yeah let's just let there be fights all the time and schools. Let's not disaplane are kids any more.

    We need Fight Clubs for kids.

    There are rules in school if you don't want to go by them then you can be kiciked out. That simple.

    You're right...there should be rules against starting fights. But there should not be rules against legitimate self-defense.

    No you don't have to break the rules. That's what they have teachers for. That what they have staff there for.

    Are you implying that kids only start fights in the presence of teachers???

    Don't take matter into your own hands. You are at school and there is to be no fighting at school.

    Again, you're right, there shouldn't be fighting at school. But bullies obviously don't really care about that.

    It's funny how similar this sounds to a certain anti-gun argument: "Don't take matters into your own hands! The police will always be there to protect you!" (rolls eyes)
     
  10. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    ani, if kids spend their entire childhoods hiding behind their teachers, how do you expect them to prepare for life on their own?

    Other people won't always be there to carry you, and learning to rely exclusively on them, rather than yourself, is learning to fail when it matters most.
     
  11. Darth_Jeremy

    Darth_Jeremy Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    anidanami,

    Yes, sometimes you do have to break the rules to stand up for what you believe in. No one ever got anywhere by playing it safe. You can't keep putting your trust in teachers or the police. 99% of the time they let you down. That's why there's so many murderers and rapists out on the street.
     
  12. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Yes, sometimes you do have to break the rules to stand up for what you believe in.

    If there is no fighting ins school then there is not fighting.

    99% of the time they let you down. That's why there's so many murderers and rapists out on the street.

    No it's because people don't tell the police. Or when they do and the police go and do something about it people get mad at them for doing there job.

    ani, if kids spend their entire childhoods hiding behind their teachers, how do you expect them to prepare for life on their own? [/i]

    Ok DG next time you go into work go up to the guy that may is bulling you (if there is someone like that at where you work). Hit them in the face really hard.

    Then when your boss asking you why you did that tell him you did it to defend your self. But don't be shocked if he fires you for it. :eek: You mean they would do that? :eek: They sure would because you are not allowed to fighting. If someone is doing stuff to you at your place of work you go right to the person in charge. If that is the person being the bullie. Then you do to HR. They will take care of it. Not you.

    That's what the real work place is like DG. I could have you talk to my dad. He woudl fire both people for fighting no the job sites. Why? Because there is not fighting allowed in the work place. If you have a problem with someone. Or they have a problem with you then go to someone and let them know.
     
  13. Special_Fred

    Special_Fred Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2003
    If there is no fighting ins school then there is not fighting.

    But there IS fighting in schools! No matter how many new rules you pull out of your ass, that isn't going to change!
     
  14. Darth_Jeremy

    Darth_Jeremy Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    Anidanami, do you believe in sticking up for yourself?
     
  15. Wonka

    Wonka Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Anidiami lives in cloud coo coo land! To be honest, I have never seen such crap as Anidiami's comments. When it comes to the average bully you have 2 choices really. You can let the bully do what he wants and walk over you or you can stand up for yourself and confront the bully. Now these 2 actions will result to one of the following conclusions. If you ignore the bully your life may become a misery as the bully may not ever stop picking on you, beating you up, and taking your money. With a bit of luck however the bully may get bored of picking on you and go away but will probably pick on you from time to time in the future.

    Telling teachers about bullies doesn't really help because your reputation gets damaged and you are labelled as a coward. The bully will then get you outside school or when he knows the teacher won't be around as the teacher can't protect you forever. The other option is certainly the best option but also the most difficult that requires courage. Confronting the bully will most likely end in a fight and despite what teachers and people like to think, the average bully is very tough and not a coward! You will more than likely get your arsed kicked and suffer some pain however if you are tough you may even win! What ever the result of the fight, the bully and every other kid will respect you and although the bully will probably have a few more fights with you to get revenge, it will all soon stop but not because the bully is frightened.

    On the rare occasion a bully will be a coward and never even look at you again but don't believe the hype as the bully is often NOT a coward and will come back for more trust me. The bully however will eventually get bored and probably get to like you and respect that you are tough and admire your courage. You may well get offered to join the gang of bullies which can be tempting as bullies certainly have the best school life. The girls will probably fancy you and you then have the option of being in the gang or just a well respected and left alone student completely free of stress.

    Like I said before it does take fortitude to be a bully although it's a nasty thing to be and most of them are not cowards. The fact that the bully is normally very tough means the best option is the most difficult one. This is obviously been proved as most of us take the cowardice way out and suffer as the bully prospers most of the time and we just pretend that it's the bully who is the coward to make ourselves feel better. Finally, the bully does actually serve a purpous as they do toughen kids up sometimes which gives kids some experience of scum bags and how they might deal with scum bags in later life. Life isn't always going to be a bed of roses and bullies teach you this.
     
  16. Dark Jedi Tam

    Dark Jedi Tam Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2000
    Then when your boss asking you why you did that tell him you did it to defend your self. But don't be shocked if he fires you for it. You mean they would do that? They sure would because you are not allowed to fighting. If someone is doing stuff to you at your place of work you go right to the person in charge. If that is the person being the bullie. Then you do to HR. They will take care of it. Not you.


    Correct me if I?m wrong, but reading your posts I get the impression you think that people would fly off the handle and just start assaulting someone at the slightest offense. All at the ?excuse? of defending ones self from negative remarks. It?s a lot more than that. We are talking about constant harassment that compounds on the psyche, to the point where an individual can no longer tolerate the bullies behavior and snaps. Everyone has a threshold for holding back anger. But when you add in anxiety, fear, depression, and other factors into the mix, that threshold slowly decreases. I can understand completely why people snap at bullies. In fact, I had bullies I had to deal with in school too. It certianly was not a fun experience. Thankfully nothing ever escalated into physical violence.

    And you don?t just go up and beat the holy hell out of someone for being called a ?stinky pile of trash?. I would say anyone who does so has got some issues they need to work out in therapy or anger management. :p What is being addressed is actual physical violence where your life might be in jeopardy. Most people try to avoid it through talking to a bully. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn?t. But if you?re cornered against a wall, with no way out, what then? Tell them you?re going to report them if they hurt you? What happens if they beat you up so severely, you can?t walk away to go report them? What if you black out and wake up but cannot remember details? Or the person?s face because the lighting was too dark? Personally, if someone were threatening my life, I?d do everything humanly possible to inflict as much bodily harm on him or her in order to protect myself. Bullies don?t want resistance, they want compliance. And I?d be damned if I let myself be a victim.

    Now with your work scenario, if someone was getting verbally or physically harassed, then yes, the obvious thing to do is report the incident to Human Resources. BUT, that doesn?t automatically mean that that individual reported will get fired on the spot. More than likely, they will be given a warning and watched more closely if any behavior is repeated. Also note that harassers tend to pick those moments when their target is well out of eyesight and they can interact one on one. Same in a schoolyard. Bullies don?t always want their actions to be made public? it makes for too many witness. Bullies (at least ones I?ve observed) want to keep control of that so that if they get reported on, they can paint a different scenario that makes the victim look bad. Does that sound fair? No. But does it happen? Yes.

    I?m not exactly an advocate of violence, but I do believe there are times where it is necessary.
     
  17. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    Out of curiousity, ani, do you know how long it takes for the cops to respond in some cities? 90-minute waits are far from uncommon.
     
  18. Spike2002

    Spike2002 Former FF-UK RSA and Arena Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2002
    There is only one way of dealing with bullies in my view. Fight back and hurt them enough to make them respect you a little bit more.

    When I was in school my friends and I took a dim view on bullies and what they did to their victims. As an example, a friend of mine's brother was being picked on a few years ago. The guy who was bullying him was a right little...well...I'll refrain from saying it but you get the idea.

    Anyway, when he came home crying one day, my friend got extremely mad and when in school he saw the bully. Anyway, my friend lost it and grabbed the bully and instilled the fear of God in him by telling him exactly what he would do to him if he ever touched his brother again.

    And it worked. The bully stopped picking on my friend's brother, and even started being nice to him.

    And I was reading a few pages back when self-defence classes were talked about. I happen to think it is a very good idea. I took up tae kwondo at after-school classes, and amateur boxing in the last few years of school and college. Not that I was ever bullied, but it certainly proved a deterrent.

    And anidami, I'm disappointed to have read your philosophy of dealing with bullies. Lying back and letting a bully do whatever he wants is just going to provoke him into doing it more often.

    And your "No fighting in schools" argument is stupid. Fine its against the rules, but so is bullying. You want to deal with a bully, then deal with it through force.

    Also, every movie I've ever watched that has dealt with bullying always comes up with the solution of fighting back, nothing else.
     
  19. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    And your "No fighting in schools" argument is stupid. Fine its against the rules, but so is bullying. You want to deal with a bully, then deal with it through force.

    Go to any school and ask them if they let people fight. The answer will be no.

    As for classes. They are not needed. You want to get kids ready for the really world. Then thorw out all the point less classes. No more how to get in touch with you emtions. No more how to be buddy buddy with bullies. No defens classes.

    Math, reading, and writing are the things kid should be learning. Give the teachers back there power to smack the bullies up side there heads again. In fact give teachers all there power back. That means let's go back to the days when are moms and dads were in school. They days when bullies who mouthed off to the teachers are hurt other found themselves being taken out behind the wood shead had hit a few times. They would not act that way again.


     
  20. Wonka

    Wonka Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2004
    I would like to know what world Antienemi has been living in as her comments are certainly not realistic here on earth.
     
  21. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    On 2nd thought.
     
  22. Spike2002

    Spike2002 Former FF-UK RSA and Arena Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Go to any school and ask them if they let people fight. The answer will be no.

    Go to any school and ask them if they let people bully others. The answer will also be no, but there will still be bullying.

    As for classes. They are not needed. You want to get kids ready for the really world. Then thorw out all the point less classes. No more how to get in touch with you emtions. No more how to be buddy buddy with bullies. No defens classes.

    How is self-defence pointless? Apart from the obvious physical benefits, it raises self-confidence. To survive in the real world, you need confidence.

    Math, reading, and writing are the things kid should be learning. Give the teachers back there power to smack the bullies up side there heads again. In fact give teachers all there power back. That means let's go back to the days when are moms and dads were in school. They days when bullies who mouthed off to the teachers are hurt other found themselves being taken out behind the wood shead had hit a few times. They would not act that way again.

    You seem to have contradicted yourself. Dealing with the bullies the way you proposed is still dealing with them through force. Only you get someone else to fight your battles for you.
     
  23. Dark Jedi Tam

    Dark Jedi Tam Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2000
    As for classes. They are not needed. You want to get kids ready for the really world. Then thorw out all the point less classes. No more how to get in touch with you emtions. No more how to be buddy buddy with bullies. No defens classes.

    Maybe classes have changed since I was in high school, but we certainly didn?t have these so called ?pointless classes?. And by the way, how is getting in touch with your inner self considered pointless? I think that can be a rather good thing and teach kids more about who they are, as well as developing mentally, emotionally, and possibly spiritually. Same with self-defense. You?re learning to protect yourself from outside negative forces. Plus, depending on what form of defense you take up, you can also learn to remain calm in times of distress. I seriously fail to see how such things are pointless.

    IMO, I think high schools should have programs like these that kids can participate in. It gives them a break from the reading, writing, and arithmetic and focuses on them as a person.

    They days when bullies who mouthed off to the teachers are hurt other found themselves being taken out behind the wood shead had hit a few times. They would not act that way again.

    I?m surprised that your suggesting that seeing all your previous comments have been anti-violence. Just as a note, abusing the abuser does not always work in regards to getting the behavior to stop. Often times, it only makes it worse.


    edit Dang you, Spike, you beat me to it! ;)
     
  24. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2003
    anidanami, sorry but you seem to have no clue about real life in some schools...
     
  25. Spike2002

    Spike2002 Former FF-UK RSA and Arena Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2002
    edit Dang you, Spike, you beat me to it!

    Sorry Tam. ;)
     
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