What to do about illegal immigration: Debate and Discussion

Illegals stage a walkout.

(CBS) PHOENIX Thousands of people across the country protested Friday against legislation cracking down on illegal immigrants, with demonstrators in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Atlanta staging school walkouts, marches and work stoppages.

The House of Representatives passed legislation in December that would make it a felony to be illegally in the United States, impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants and erect fences along one-third of the U.S.-Mexican border. The Senate is set to take up its own version of immigration reform on Monday.

The proposals have angered many immigrant rights groups which have promised to fight back.

The Los Angeles demonstration led to fights between black and Hispanic students at one high school, but the protests were largely peaceful, authorities said.

"It was horrible, horrible," Mason said. "It's ridiculous that a bunch of black students would jump on Latinos like that, knowing they're trying to get their freedom."

Chantal Mason, a sophomore at George Washington Preparatory High, said black students jumped Hispanic students as they left classes to protest the House bill that would make it a felony to be in the U.S. illegally.

Rep. Peter King of New York, one of the bill's sponsors, told CBS News correspondent Sandra Hughes, "The issue of illegal immigration, is not just a social issue, not just an economic issue, it's an issue of homeland security."

In Phoenix, police said 10,000 demonstrators marched to the office of Republican Sen. Jon Kyl, co-sponsor of a bill that would give illegal immigrants up to five years to leave the country. The turnout clogged a major thoroughfare.

"They're here for the American Dream," said Malissa Greer, 29, who joined a crowd estimated by police to be at least 10,000 strong. "God created all of us. He's not a God of the United States, he's a God of the world."

Kyl had no immediate comment on the rally.

The escalating controversy puts farmers such as Dewey Zapka of Weld County, Colo., right in the middle, CBS News' Jennifer Miller reports.

"Let them come here legal, quit chasing them," Zapka said. "Let them be comfortable here while they're working and doing our work that nobody else will do."

At least 500 students at Huntington Park High School near Los Angeles walked out of classes in the morning. Hundreds of the students, some carrying Mexican flags, walked down the middle of Los Angeles streets, police cruisers behind them.

The students visited two other area high schools, trying to encourage students to join their protest, but the schools were locked down to keep students from leaving, said Los Angeles district spokeswoman Monica Carazo.

In Georgia, activists said tens of thousands of workers did not show up at their jobs Friday after calls for a work stoppage to protest a bill passed by the Georgia House on Thursday.

That bill, which has yet to gain approval in the state Senate, would deny state services to adults living in the U.S. illegally and impose a 5 percent surcharge on wire transfers from illegal immigrants.

Supporters say the Georgia measure is vital to homeland security and frees up limited state services for people legally entitled to them. Opponents say it unfairly targets workers meeting the demands of some of the state's largest industries.

Teodoro Maus, an organizer of the Georgia protest, estimated as many as 80,000 Hispanics did not show up for work. About 200 converged on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, some wrapped in Mexican flags and holding signs reading: "Don't panic, we're Hispanic" and "We have a dream, too."

Jennifer Garcia worried what would the proposal would do to her family. She said her husband is an illegal Mexican immigrant.

"If they send him back to Mexico, who's going to take care of them and me?" Garcia said of herself and her four children. "This is the United States. We need to come together and be a whole."

On Thursday, thousands of people filled

 

They have the right to be deported in a humane fashion. I wish we could kick all the Mexicans out and let people from countries that are FAR worse off take the jobs the Mexicans won't take. I guess one could argue they are just taking back what we took from them, but somehow I bet the American West would look just as crappy as the rest of Mexico if we had let them keep it.

 

He has a point, they're here illegally. It just so happens our government/society loves cheap labor, aint that cute?

We need to SHUT THE BORDER, make it a lot easier to gain US citizenship and put pressure on the Mexican government to get it's #@%$ together.

 

None whatsoever.

 

People in this country, illegal or not, have a number of rights. You couldn't rape, kill, or enslave them, for instance. I'm being overly simplistic, but they do have some actual rights too, although I'd have to look up what exactly they are. In ayn case, the whole argument that "you're here illegally so you have no rights" is a poor one. Just because you're violating a law does not mean you forfeit all rights. It just means you're violating a law. Now, admittedly, they don't have nearly as many rights as actual US citizens or legal immigrants, but they do have some.

Also, J, I think you miss the point. There are jobs that US citizens won't take--not enough to fill the demand, anyway. You make the point of the wages being too low, but I tihnk that misses it altogether. Yes, you're right that it's actually "Americans don't want that job, at that wage." But companies don't want that wage largely because consumers don't want the cost it would take to pay the higher wage.

 

For me it depends on why they are immigrants.



In the UK we have been inundated with illegal and legal immigrants.



I have no issue at all with the legal ones as they have gone through a process to allow them to be here and are a result have passed all the criteria to be classed as someone who will benefit the UK.



I don't have an issue with illigal immigrants if they do it correctly.


IF the illegal immigrant has come from a country where their beliefs/way of life/sexuality etc is repressed then as far as I'm concerned they have a right to live as a free human being. If they come to my country however our law requires that they make themselves known at the immigration department as soon as they arrive so we can then start looking into their history and process an application to make them a legal migrant OR deport them if it is found that their alledged circumstances hold no water.

I have no issue with putting these people in temporary housing and providing them with food whilst their application is processed.


I do however have issue with the migrants that arrive and go into hiding, work cash to hand and get fraudualnt ID and claim benefit they are not entitled to (but I also have an issue with UK citizens that do this as well)


In a nutshell if they are here for a good reason, they follow the rules and try to become a good member of society then fine.

If they're here to bum around get caught up in crime and waste my taxes then send them to their original point of origin.

 

Yeah, the whole "inalienable" rights thing skipped you by J-dude, hey?

E_S

 

Is it because Americans won't do these jobs, or because illegals can do them cheaper? I think its a combination of both, but I'm leaning heavily toward the second choice.


I think we need to do some serious border control upgrading and also start putting diplomatic pressure on Mexico to stem the tide. Here's some of the reforms that, IMHO, we need:

-Easier legalized immigration. If its easier to do it the legal way, fewer people will hop the borders illegally.

-Tighter border control. Increase spending on border patrol and upgrade the border itself. A fence is not a human rights violation.

-Draw attention to the issue. The President, Senators, Congressmen, whoever: start talking about it. I want to see somebody declare in no uncertain terms that illegal immegration is wrong and that the illegals are breaking the law.

-Pressure on Mexico. The Mexican government is a big part of this. I mean, look at parts of the country, its like the third world. We need to start telling them to shape up and reform their own govenment and economy ASAP. This could also involve giving incentives to companies that outsource jobs to Mexico rather than the Far East or India, in an attempt to bolster the Mexican economy and provide incentive not to come to the US (possibly.)



I think one of the biggest problems is what we're going to do the population of illegals already in the US. Do we ship them back to Mexico/wherever they came from? Do we implement a guest worker program? Do we grant them citizenship? (Something I am against, because its rather disrespectful of those who immegrated legally.) And how do we find them all?

Its all a tough question that I haven't seen the government try to solve yet.


As for illegals' rights, I feel that they should have some---due process and a speedy trial, and no cruel and unusual punishments.

 

Supply and demand.

That sums it up real quick.

 

Firstly, I need to comment on a couple of statements made here then I need to clairify my position.

There is no way to correctly enter a country illegally. Hence the illegal part.

Inalienable rights are not extended to law breakers. Hence the presence of prisons in the US.

Even by paying an illegal the same wage as a legal worker, companies are saving a crap load of money by not having to match the worker's Social Security contibutions...as they aren't making any such contrabutions.

Now, do not missunderstand me. I do not support the imagration bill as it stands due to the criminalization of humanitarian aid as discribed in the bill. (Though admittedly I hate commenting on a bill I have yet to actually read...but I've been busy)

Look, six houses down from me there are two families, each with 3 generations of those families living there. Nine people total. They've been living there for four years. I consider them friends and good neighbors. They are illegal. I know this because they told me that they are not legal. Yet they have gotten a loan from the bank for the house. Loans for 3 new cars. And I see them at the poles durring each and every election.

How?

Why?

Ok, I am all for immagration. Much like my beliefs of prostitution and pot, I believe that it has to be legal and reguated to be safe. Our country and it's economy has shown a willingness and capability to accept an estimated 500,000 illegals per year. (A low estamate, in my thinking)

So we have to increase the legal course of immagration by that much. A growing country is a growing economy. A steady flow of working aged people into this country will go a long way toward fending off the Social Security crisis created by the retirement of the Baby Boom Generation. It will create or expand new areas of industrial and service sectors patroned by legal immagrants.

America is the land of opportunity. We are the best country on Earth because the best, brightest, and hardest working in the world want to come here to ply their trade. Our immagration policies need to be updated to match the demand for workers in this country and the demand of workers wanting to come here. Simple supply and demand economics.

But make no mistake, illegals cannot and should not be allowed any public money or services nor should have the friggen right to protest!

EDIT: Dammit KW, I wanted to make your point! Damn slow fingers...

 

I'm a legal immigrant to the US - as in held a green card (yes, as a toddler I was issued a green card, complete with photo ID) and for nearly 8 years, my parents and I were considered 'Resident Aliens'. It's not as if we were popping back to England every few years or had plans of moving back (Indeed, we didn't even go back until my parents and I got US passports). I stll have my certificate of Citizenship (even with a SS card, I need to keep it safer than a birth certificate as it's my only *proof* of US citizenship.)

Illegals have rights - the right to GO THROUGH THE PROCESS if they wish to become lifetime residents.

 

how can an illegal immigrant get loans for houses and such if they dont have SSI. Seems awfully fishy to me.

Thats the thing. Think about it Jrod. your neighbors probably dont pay all the tax they are supposed to. In fact they probably dont even pay personal income tax. Why bother the US govt doesnt ask an illegal immigrant too.

In my opinion any and all protests of illegal immigrants should result In massive arrests for those who turn up for protests.

 

As I've said for a long time, I have no problem with legal immigrants no matter what country they're from. What makes me scream at the media and the President for that matter, is that they make no distinction between legal immigrants and illegal aliens. They just simply call them "immigrants".

They twist this so to make us appear "anti-Mexican" or "anti-Hispanic" when it's clearly not the case and has never been the case.

And we're fed the big lie that they will do the jobs Americans won't do. This same BS was said by President Bush himself. He is completely out of touch. The people who would do those jobs are the able-bodied bums who are on welfare right now. If there was no welfare, hell yeah they would do those hard jobs rather than starve. If I were desperate, I'd do them too.

 

The thing I find funny is the only people who support illegal immigrants are those who benefit the most, The rich and powerful who use them for undercut the competition or save a buck when ti comes to cleaning their homes.

 

J-Rod, please define inalienable?

E_S

 

Naturally it doesn?t justify breaking the laws, but IMO a vast majority of immigrants, both legal and illegal, do come here for the ?American Dream?.

The crux of the problem is that we have waited so long to do anything. I would hesitate to deport any working illegal immigrant. IMO its impractical for a variety of reasons, including the logistics of deporting so many people and displacing so many people that have jobs and, like it or not, greatly contribute to our economy and society.

That said, I would impose an amnesty to those that are already here and employed. Yes, they broke the law, but for the aforementioned reasons, I disagree with the idea of deporting all illegal immigrants. By legalizing them and putting them onto the path of American citizenship, we can know who is in this country and eliminate this black market of sorts of cheap labor.

On top of this, I would agree with the law, provided there are a few modificatiosn, that is being proposed for all illegal immigrants from this point forward.

 

Protest is expression, its a human right not a citizenship right. No one has a right to a driver's license. Health Care yes, Health Plan, no. Millions of legal citizens don't have that, clearly it's a class priviledge. Unemployment is a perk, not a right, it's not in the Bill of Rights, it can be taken away from anyone. Education is free anyway, its called a library. Work is a responsibility, as long as you want to eat warm food.

So of all those, one is a "right." The exact one that no one is going to stop them from doing, so this isn't an issue. This gets press coverage because Americans fear what they can't understand, and Spanish, Russian, Chinese are not taught very much in schools. Can't understand 'em or get 'em to vote for you, then why not deport them? This is just one step from history's chapter called "The Negro Question" or "The Jewish Question." What are we going to do with all these people that are different from me? Immigration policy? Have we really not moved past the Gentlemen's Agreement?

 

Yeop, it's alot of paperwork/money to get a software engineer from Dubai, when Mexican's can just hop the border like it doesn't exist.

Should the United States deal with Mexico's problem? Everyone knows that the Mexican political sphere is filthy in corruption and it's really the reason why they all want to come here. You can't work yourself up in Mexico.

Those people protesting should have been protesting in Mexico city.

 

They have no rights.
And all this about them taking jobs that Americans are too good for? What's up with that?! There aren't jobs that Americans are too good for. If you're broke and need a job, you'll be able to take a dishwashing job or whatever else it is.

 

Well, to an extent, there is some truth to some of the allegations - and it gets worse when a major voice on the issue (Michelle Malkin) cites and links to people who have been rightly described as bigots by other conservatives (two of the founders of RedState.com have labeled people she has cited as such). In the Age of Google it is incomprehensible to think she had no idea that there were concerns among other conservatives about this.

 

I can't think of any instance where the President has refered to the issue as only an immigration problem and not made the distinction between legal and illegal.

If you could point me to where he has done such a thing I would really appreciate it.

As so many others have said, I think it comes down to an issue of the wages being paid, not necissarily the job itself. A lot of companies can get away with paying illegal immigrants "fair" wages to make their product more cheaply, so they do that. If we, as consumers, are really willing to do something to "fix" this problem, we really need to accept an increase in the cost of nearly everything we buy.



However--large companies employing illegal immigrants to save money isn't the major problem I have with this issue.

Take a look at these pictures:

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[image=http://www.cairco.org/pics/pic_illegal_alien_rally_2006mar25_105.jpg]


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[image=http://www.cairco.org/pics/pic_illegal_alien_rally_2006mar25_2038.jpg]


[image=http://www.cairco.org/pics/pic_illegal_alien_rally_2006mar25_2046.jpg]


[image=http://www.cairco.org/pics/pic_illegal_alien_rally_la_2006mar25_3013.jpg]


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Why is it that the Mexican flag is so prominant in these protests? There are U.S. flags in there, as well, but the vast majority of footage I've seen of wide shots of the protests shows absolutely tons of Mexican flags.

Why is that?

You see, this is the major issue I have with illegal immigration. I will be the first to say that this isn't true for every illegal immigrant, but it seems to be rather prevelant in my experience:

Most illegal immigrants I have known came to the U.S. to make a better life for themselves and their families. I greatly respect that. However--while they are here to take advantage of the prosperity and freedom the U.S. has to offer, a great number of them don't seem to have an interest in assimilating into our culture. They create sub-cultures of their own in neighborhoods, some don't learn english, and continue to hold a great alligence to their home government. In smaller numbers such issues can be controlled and even tolerated. The problem takes care of itself after a time. But when you have half a million illegals coming into the country every 12 months it's a lot harder to control, and there isn't the time to allow the problem to fix itself.

A lot of areas in southern California have literally turned into Not-So-Little-Mexicos. There are just too many of them for assimilation to occur naturally in those cities, and some in these cities don't even want to assimilate into America, but would rather

 

That's not even remotely true, but I'm sure you knew that.

 

Hence the "inalienable" reference earlier, dear Mr Cahill; I'm still waiting for a definition from J-Rod which will allow his alienation of inalienable rights to stand.

E_S

 

Well I'm all for leting people come to the US as long as the do it the legal way. But when they come here illegal well they are not citizens of the US they do not have the same rights as I do. Many of the laws and rights we ahve in the US are for those are are LEGAL CITIZENS OF THE US.

 

Midgets

Assimilation is a myth. California is not Texas is not Maryland is not New York is not New Hampshire is not Utah... You cannot point to one characteristic and tell me that it is "American." Of course, some things should be standardized, like language, but not much more than that should be an issue

So I don't see why people are so insistant on making sure immigrants "assimilate" into an American culture that does not exist.

Anyway, for some reason, I just don't give a crap about illegal immigrants, I really don't. When they pose a true risk to citizens (and I mean a real, tangible risk), that's probably when I'll start to notice. There is one thing I'd want to see extra, and that's a requirement to show photo ID at polling stations to prevent people from voting illegally (this applies to both illegal immigrants and anyone trying to unlawfully manipulate elections).

I am somewhat impressed by the turnout of alot of these protests.

Other than that...meh.




You ungrateful, metal pansy!