Rogue One What Was Bail's Plan?

He sent Leia to get the plans and bring them to Obi-Wan. Assuming Bail had been able to actually meet Obi-Wan on Alderaan, what plan would the former Senator have had for Obi-Wan? Would he use him as a counter to Vader? I have to imagine the legendary Obi-Wan Kenobi would have instilled fear in the Imperials due to surviving the purge and being the hero of the Clone Wars he was.

 

Hm, I never really thought about this. He did say in R1 that "He served me well durring the CW!" Maybe he thought he was the only one that could get the plans safety to Alderaan. I dunno..

 

I think Bail's initial plan was just to send Leia for Obi-Wan (sans plans, as at this point the Alliance had decided they weren't going to try to get the plans). But her ship was docked for repairs in the Profundity? Once Raddus learned that some Rebels were attempting to get the plans off Scarif he went there himself with whatever ships he commanded. I guess Bail himself had headed back to Alderaan so at the time the Profundity (carrying Leia's ship) diverted to Scarif, Bail wasn't there to comment.

Mon Mothma was the one who asked Bail about his Jedi friend and he responded he'd send someone to get him. But I think this conversation was in response to how the Death Star was built, the Rebels had decided to do nothing, and so the Rebels face their "most desperate hour." Can Obi-Wan help?

 

Maybe Bail's plan was the have Obi-Wan get the plans! Sneak in, ANH-style.

 

i guess it's a question of what was Mon Mothma's plan? "Obi-Wan, you're a Jedi. You're... powerful and... magical. What do we do now?"

Perhaps actually Bail might think this is a good time for Obi-Wan to train the twins to defeat Vader and the Emperor and hope that enough of the galaxy is left after that's over.

But, really, good point... I'm sure Obi-Wan can enter stealthily and rig a self-destruct? What can Obi-Wan not do secretly on the Death Star? Although he'd need to pick a time when Vader's not on board.

 

That's where Bail's usefully becomes suck. Bail naively expected Yoda and Obi to mop the Imperial mess of 18 years prior based on conversation in the concussion of III.

The Rebel Alliance was surprisingly weak before Jyn.

 

Mon Mothma said they'd need ever advantage they could get in order to engage the Empire in open warfare. Adding an experienced Jedi General to your High Command would be advantageous. I don't think they ever expected the Death Star Plans to wind up on the Tantive IV

 

Well Bail knew Obi Wan had Luke, we have to assume it was always the plan to train the Skywalkers once the Force gave them that opening. It was always thought that Obi/ Ben knows it's time when Luke arrives with R2 carrying a message to Leia, so maybe Bail and Leia would've headed to Tatooine, and maybe hope Obi Wan could start both of their training? For all we know Leia was going to be the original "hope" by meeting Obi Wan, and being intercepted and Luke showing up instead was the Force's way of showing Obi Wan who should be trained to defeat Vader and the Emporer.

 

I think that too, but Leia seems to know what she's being handed when she takes the plans (Why, you silly man, this is hope, this is!"). So, if she was simply on her way to Obi-Wan and they docked for repairs, and she had no contact with anyone of importance to the R1 plot specifically, I guess we kinda have to presume she did speak to someone 'off-camera' to understand how she knows what she's being handed.

 

His plan was to bring Obi-wan into the conflict as an extra asset. Beyond that I don't think he had a concrete plan. He sent Leia to pick him up from Tatooine, so what she was doing at Scarif is anyone's guess. I had assumed the end of RO was going to see the Tantine IV intercepting the plans as it was approaching Tatooine, not handed them through a busted doorway. It worked ok though.

 

Here are some bits and pieces, first from the preliminary ANH screenplay from January 1, 1976:

LEIA
Commander, you served my father in the Clone War and now I beg you to aid us in our most desperate hour. It is of vital importance that you see this R-2 unit safely delivered to Alderaan. Please help me, you are my only hope.

According to this draft, it would appear that Leia had no choice but to turn to Obi-Wan because she knew that it would no longer be possible for her to deliver the plans to Alderaan and simply turned to the only guy she knew could.

Interestingly, the original, extended ROJ screenplay picked up that idea (apparently ignoring that the context had somewhat been changed by the final ANH screenplay):

BEN (attempting to give solace with his words)
The Organa household was high-born and politically quite powerful in
that system. Leia became a princess by virtue of lineage... no one knew
she'd been adopted, of course. But it was a title without real power,
since Alderaan had long been a democracy. Even so, the family
continued to be politically powerful, and Leia, following in her foster
father's path, became a senator as well. That's not all she became, of
course... she became the leader of her cell in the Alliance against the
corrupt Empire. And because she had diplomatic immunity, she was a
vital link for getting information to the Rebel cause. That's what she
was doing when her path crossed yours... for her foster parents had
always told her to contact me on Tatooine, if her troubles became
desperate.

Actual dialogue from the final ANH screenplay and the finished film:

LEIA
General Kenobi, years ago you served
my father in the Clone Wars. Now he
begs you to help him in his struggle
against the Empire. I regret that I
am unable to present my father's
request to you in person, but my
ship has fallen under attack and I'm
afraid my mission to bring you to
Alderaan has failed.

So her mission was to bring Kenobi to Alderaan to help Bail Organa's struggle against the Empire. Since his struggle must have been the peaceful kind (Alderaan had no weapons), I can only guess that Bail Organa had planned to present the Death Star plans as evidence to the Imperial Senate that the Emperor was about to backstab the Imperial Senate, and perhaps further present Obi-Wan Kenobi's eye-witness testimony to what had actually happened to the Jedi, i.e. they were not the ones betraying but actually those who got betrayed (simply put: twice the evidence showing Palpatine's treacherous character, probably with more examples we are currently not aware of).

I for one do not believe, that Bail Organa would have entered the Imperial Senate (and exposed himself in front of the Emperor) just with the evidence of the Death Star, claiming it was a WMD designed to coerce the Senate members (there was no irrefutable proof for the Death Star being a WMD in this *cough* galaxy and at that time, yet), so I'd like to think he had collected other evidence implicating the Emperor's aggressive behavior, with Kenobi's appearance perhaps being the "icing on the cake".

Possible that the Emperor foresaw something like that happening, and thus acted with a pre-emptive strike, i.e. dissolving the Imperial Senate.

 

Bail should of evacuated as many People from Alderaan as possible. He knew that the "jig is up".

 

It's possible that he did, and like the captain of sinking ship, he volunteered to remain on Alderaan in case the Death Star ever made a visit.

 

Leia was shocked the Empire would use the Death Star on Alderaan. The Empire pulled the rug out from under everyone. They may have thought they had more stability than they did. They only just found out about the Death Star, then as they're reeling from that the Senate is dissolved... Everything they used to rely on is just gone. It may have caught them by surprise.

 

Even if Bail had suspected that Alderaan would be an early target of the Death Star, which I don't think he did, where would he have evacuated them to? Are there still plenty of habitable planets that are safe from the Empire at this point?



Bail told Mon Mothma that he would inform the people of Alderaan that there'd be no peace. They could have taken that as a prompt to leave if they were foresightful enough.
Btw are Bail and Leia both senators during this period (leading up to the dissolution)? Does each system have two senators, or has Bail stepped down by this point?

 

Huh? Alderaan only became a target because Tarkin was trying to extract information from Leia. Before that, nobody had any idea that the Empire would choose to destroy a non-martial planet like Alderaan.

 

Yeah, it only became the test target because it was her home planet and it was not too far away when he got the idea.

 

I think Rogue One deliberately keeps things like this vague to avoid plotholes, if we don't know as much about Bails intensions its that much easier for fans(or indeed future writters) to invent a plauseable motivate/plan.

Going from what we do have I think Obi Wan would as mentioned already either be useful as a witness in the senate or as another form of attack besides direct military conflict in the face of the DS.

 

It was the worst kept secret that Alderaan "wasn't" supporting the rebels.

 

i think it makes sense from the audience point of view that Alderaan wasn't safe (i wouldn't be surprised if Tarkin wanted to it to be one of the first destroyed; and then Leia gets caught committing treason, which bumped it up). i just don't know that Alderaan's leaders would have thought it would have been one of the first targets.

 

Nowhere in the films is that evident. And even if it was clear that certain Alderaanians were disloyal (such as Leia at the start of ANH), there was no reason to believe that the Empire would decide to blow up the whole planet based on such suspicions. This is simply a case of audiences having more information than characters, and expecting characters to do things based on what they can't possibly know.

 

He sent Leia to get Obi-Wan, the Death Star plans were a spur of the moment thing that Bail didn't know about because he had already gone back to Alderaan by the time the report reached Yavin IV that Rogue One was on Scarif.

"Bringing the Death Star Plans to Obi-Wan" was NOT Bail's plan. "Bringing Obi-Wan to Alderaan" was.

How was the Rebel Alliance's weakness surprising? We KNEW because of the Opening Scroll of ANH that they had exactly ZERO victories in 18yrs prior to Scarif.

 

Bail has stepped down by this point. Mon Mothma, however, is still a Senator in the Imperial Senate. As seen in the Ahsoka novel, Bail was mostly in charge of the intelligence and covert military operations aspect of the alliance (due, I'm sure, to his experiences in the Clone Wars). Mon Mothma led the political side of the Rebellion, as we saw in Rogue One.

 

I was sort of under the impression he was being brought in as a military advisor. From the sounds of things it seemed like the conflict had not escalated into a full blown civil war yet and Obi-Wan's experience might have been what Bail wanted

 

the first time i saw RO i was a little astonished that the Rebels were giving up; that it was the standard scene where everyone loses hope and they're going to break apart and go their separate ways possibly even but for the protagonist (Jyn) who manages to miraculously pull them all back together... but the second time i saw RO the whole thing made perfect sense because the whole point is really the Death Star. to so many of the Rebels (especially those involved in the governments of their worlds, which accounts for a lot of the Rebel leaders), it's game over (the Empire can now destroy their entire planets).

the first time i saw this i thought they should all be behind the plan of going to scarif because it's the last hope they have; that they shouldn't accept complete oppression by the Empire without a last ditch effort (because soon after a lot of the Rebel leaders are going to leave and a lot of support will be withdrawn because no one will want to do anything to invite the Death Star to their home planet). so they're on the edge between a chance for freedom and the end of freedom and they should fight like hell before giving up that chance, however slight.

i think that the Rebels thought this too, when they came around and all went to Scarif after the RO team (but they needed RO to make the first move; a show of bravery to overcome their fear). but before that, when i imagine the sheer horror of the Death Star i really do think it is realistic it would have caused much of the Rebel Alliance to collapse. it's too late (the weapon is built) and for world leaders their very first responsibility is the lives of those they serve (the billions living on their home worlds). i think in their shoes, my mind would be racing ahead thinking of all the evidence that could be found that my world had anything to do with the Rebellion (should the Empire arrive and dig through everything), and what steps need to be taken now for damage control. before if they dug through everything a lot of world leaders including me would be executed; but now if they do it, they might decide to kill *everyone*. and weighing the lives of everyone on my planet vs. a highly unlikely scenario of getting the plans from a heavily guarded imperial installation, and then being able to actually pull off a mission of destruction... i mean that seems like a fantasy almost and i have to be realistic because i serve billions of people. the viewing audience knows this will work in the future; the Rebel leaders don't.

Jyn is in a unique position because this is all so personal to her; her entire life has already been ruined (in some ways) by the Death Star. her father designed it and he provided them (*her*) a chance to stop it. she can't say no to that (it's too personal; it's the way to overturn all the crap that has happened to her because of this weapon). so she is one of the few fixated on this unlikely shot of defeating the weapon while many of the Rebel leaders (especially those whose hands aren't dirty, the lofty political leaders) are overcome with terror (all their people, their worlds, are probably flashing before their eyes... and submission to the Empire seems the only way to try to save themselves): "please don't punish us, we'll be good."

Of course also a lot of the Rebel leaders don't believe Jyn and don't see why they should put their faith in her for some shot in the dark. That Jyn and the RO team went first I think was necessary because it showed they believe in this mission; they'll do it with or without the support of the rest of the Alliance. And the military leaders in the Alliance could easily get on board with that. Basically it's a movement from the bottom up: first the rag tags, then the military leaders, and then lastly the lofty political leaders (with the exception of some like Mon Mothma who were probably in support of the mission to begin with but were out-voted).

and ofc the theme of the movie is hope; both how powerful and how fragile it is. the first time i saw the movie i found Leia's line at the end a bit cheesy, but the second time i loved it because it shows Leia herself understands. she is a political leader and she knows that much of the Alliance almost lost hope, almost gave up, and she is determined to be strong (for them), to keep hope alive at all costs.