What was Count Dooku's angle in Episode II when he told Obi-Wan the truth?

Something odd struck me about Dooku in Episode II this I watched it....he seemed not like the arch-villian i'd pegged him as but as a secret agent wannabee. IMO Dooku would have the same free spirit and non-reliance on the force as his padawan Qui Gon Jinn so I absolutely do think its possible he only went in league with Sidious to learn his plans. But he gets so deep so fast he can't break cover....thats why he tells Obi-Wan the whole plan...he's hoping that Obi-Wan, being Jinn's padawan, will believe him and join him in fighting palpatine. But of course the Jedi act like they have everything under control. They could have jumped on palpatine right then....they should have.

 

I would say Palps ordered Dooku to have that conversation with Obi-Wan.

Dooku knew without doubt that Obi-Wan would not join him, the offer was there to plant the seed of distrust against Palpatine with the Jedi, so they would ultimately act against him, as seen in episode III.

What he told Obi-Wan was lies as the Trade Federation WERE still working with Palpatine and are clearly seen to be doing so, willingly too in Episode III.

The intent was for Obi-Wan to go back to the Jedi and and tell them all Dooku had said in order to fray relations between the Jedi and Palpatine. Nothing more.

 

thats why he tells Obi-Wan the whole plan

He's a Sith. He's evil. In this scene, he is fishing for an apprentice so they can overthrow Sidious and he can become head Sith. This is what all Sith do.

 

Get Obi-Wan to join him, kill Palps, rebuild the Republic as he sees fit. Lets not forget the Sith apprentices are always looking for ways to become the master....

 

all are excellent points

 

Either Obi-Wan won't beleive the truth when it's told to him, or Obi-Wan might be tempted to join. Just like when Vader was trying to recruit Luke in ESB, he both wanted to do it "for" the Emperor and because Luke might help *him* to destroy the Emperor.

 

Dooku wanted to add another convert to the mix. Unfortunately, it didn't work out for him.

 

Cue BobTheGoon, linking to EPISODE II Forum...

 

Also, Dooku and Sidious/Palpatine knew that even if they told to truth to OB1, the jedi would think that it was all lies.

So they knew that Dooku wouldn't be believed and it would further sow distrust amongst the jedi and senate if they believed a Dark Lord of Sith was in control of it.

It's actually quite clever, tell the truth to those who think everything is a lie.

 

The only problem that I have with this plot point is that Obi-Wan, even though he didn't belive Dooku, he didn't tell anyone on the Council about that conversation, at least they didn't show it in the movie.

 

another convert??? is that even possible??? there cannot be 3-4 sith...only 2 always 2. if dooku gets obi-wan then they stay silent and knock out sidious later. i really think dooku was playing his cards semi-straight tho...just a hunch.

 

DarthSidiousIII, Obi-Wan did tell the council about this plot point, or at least it's senior members in the 3rd to last scene, the "begun, the clone war has" scene.

 

He was Lonely.

 

[image=http://www.freewebs.com/captainsparrow/sparrow.bmp]

"Unless, of course, he thought they wouldn't believe the truth even if he told it to 'em..."

 

Yes that was a strange point indeed. I was thinking ok i thought dooku was working for sidious. Another thing is who does general grievious work for? Is he freelance or being led by sidious?

 

Watch "Talented Mr. Ripley" and you will see that the best way to lie is to tell the truth.

 

The Sith use lies and betrayal in their personal quest for power. Lord Tyrannus knew of Lord Sidious' interest in Skywalker. Tyrannus realised it was a matter of time before he would be replaced by the powerful young padawan.

His attempt to recruit Obi-Wan was both a recruitment to overthrow Sidious and Secure his seat as Sith Master. He knew that if Obi-Wan didn't betray the Jedi and reported what was said, they would likely assume it was lies to promote paranoia. In any event, just as Yoda stated, the Jedi couldn't reveal this to the general public as it would reveal their diminished force perception and the instability of the Republic.

It was a win win situation on the part of the Sith Lords and Tyrannus knew that Obi-Wan was his best chance as equalisation against Sidious. Besides it was a good plot technique on the part of Lucas to show Obi-Wan's inability to be turned to the dark side.

 

i think greivous works for dooku of all people. so u could say that grievous works for sidious. i still think dooku would have joined with obi-wan to beat sidious using his droid army to beat the clones and regained his place as a jedi. i do not think dooku was lost to the dark side...just playing both sides to be on the winning team. remember sidious ordered the clones 10 years prior to AOTC and by battle time there were only 250,000 available...IMO dooku set it up that way so that his droid army could win if they had to...and he can use greivous against palpatine if he needs to.

 

"What was Count Dooku's angle in Episode II when he told Obi-Wan the truth?"


Um... I believe he was standing sort of to the Left, Im not sure though let me check the dvd again...

Yeh, he was angled to the leftside as he talked. Any other questions?!?

 

wow

 

Does anybody think grievious is jedi master sipho dious? Hmm after typing that i saw something take the ph out of sipho and you have sidious. Hmmm but the jedi would recognize palpatine as sipho dious. weird

 

This sounds like it should belong to Ep II Forum. However, there is a way to integrate it with Ep III discussion. The scene bt Dooku and Kenobi parallels the scene bt Vader and Luke in ESB to a certain degree--that is, Dooku is searching for an apprentice to help him overthrow. And I thought that was what the fight on the Invisible Hand would be about. Palps and Dooku would create the Battle of Coruscant to determine the War. Either there would be a Confederacy run by Dooku or ultimately and Empire run by Palps. Either way a Sith would be on top of the ruins of the Republic. Moreover, I thought that the scene in the Invisible Hand would parallel that at the end of ROTJ. Just as Palps and Vader competed for Luke, I thought that Palps and Dooku would compete for Anakin, esp after Dooku has seen that Anakin is more powerful and more prone than Kenobi to join the dark side.

Yet, from what we know about ROTS, Dooku knows it is staged that the Republic will win and he gets amnesty. So he is not after Anakin, but must kill Kenobi. How to make sense of this? Esp since in AOTC it seemed like he was willing to overthrow Palps.

 

i thought sipho dious was dooku's jedi name.....

 

Jedi, dumb dumb dumb jedi. Too arrogant to believe the truth about the Sith. Stupid.

 

Interesting, but then if GG is Sidious, then what's Palpatine?