PT What was Obi Wan's plan on Kamino?

Yep & he had to stay out on Naboo protecting her "until caught the killer is". These are the facts of the movie.

 

The facts don't say to kill Jango nor bring him to Coruscant. That's yours. Obi Wan then said he'll report back when he has Jango. The Plot got worse.

MJ

 

No, you have it backwards. The Jedi aren't killers. Catching him means arresting him. Which Obi-Wan tried to do. If the Jedi were killers his choice of ship would've been perfect. No need to bring him back.

 

I NEVER implied the Jedi were killers and pinky promises. It was you.

MJ

 

Read through the thread. I've been saying the opposite from the start. The murder & pinky-promise options were tongue in cheek. Two ridiculous options that he would never do.

 

No one said to kill and make jokes such as pinky promises except you and your tongue and cheek then.

And the Mod has made it clear that : http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...requel-trilogy.31899426/page-30#post-53835583

MJ

 

That's Seagoat's opinion, not a mod ruling. And perhaps he didn't recall Yoda's directive to Anakin & Obi-Wan about Jango needing to be caught before Padme can come back from Naboo. Obi-Wan also knew Jango had a bloody jetpack, from their encounter on Coruscant.

 

Regardless, the plot thickened. That's why Padme decided to help Obi Wan. Until caught comment by Yoda again does not mean bring Jango to Coruscant until Yoda said so. Protect Padme at all costs was the MOST important.

MJ

 

Irrelevant to his mission planning before he left. Part of his mission was to catch the killer. To catch anything you need something to catch them in.

How long do you want to do this for? It's like an endless game of tennis.

 

Did not Obi Wan bring his saber? Catch doesn't mean only moving it around. As said earlier Jango could be kept in Tipoca city then Padme returned to Coruscant by Anakin.

MJ

 

A Jedi takes his saber everywhere. When Obi-Wan was planning his mission there was no such thing as Tipoca City. Kamino was simply his first lead in finding & catching the killer. He may've had to track him half-way across the galaxy for all he knew. Give it up my friend. Let's put down our racquets & shake hands.

 

Yes about the Saber. Im aware they do take it around so then they can apprehend. But he did take a fighter to catch up to someone not in Coruscant. Then he can report back so that Anakin can bring back Padme. But the Plot was no longer the same.

MJ

 

For me the bottom line still ends up being that Obi Wan, even though he's a character, can still be looked at as an intelligent being that makes decisions based on his own preferences, his own knowledge, his own skills, his abilities, etc etc.

We can easily assume that Obi Wans decision to take a Jedi Starfighter rather than a larger transport has some intelligent reasoning behind it that doesn't need to be explained onscreen.

I just don't get the reasoning behind Obi Wan being wrong for taking it because it's "not what I would do". All we can do is sit here and come up with possible anid plausible scenarios for why he took the single man fighter, that he weighed his options and decided it was the best thing for him to use in order to complete his mission and make sure he himself returned home safely. We can come up with plausible and possible scenarios for why he felt the trade off was needed and necessary. Which many of us have done in this thread. There have been a wide variety of possible and plausible scenarios for Obi Wans reasoning.

If Obi Wan had decided that it was better, safer, and wiser to take the Jedi Starfighter as he was unsure of what he was going to encounter during the course of his mission, who are we to say he was wrong? Using the Starfighter and calling for a transport if he captures Jango does not in anyway impede him from successfully carrying out his mission. To say it's not what I would do, does not automatically mean Obi Wan was stupid or made a poor decision. Clearly, as we sit here in hindsight, he made the correct decision. He, for the most part, successfully carried out his mission.

Did he track down the Bounty Hunter? Yes
Did he find out who was behind the Bounty Hunter? Yes
Did he find Kamino? Yes
Did he capture Jango? No, but taking the Starfighter had nothing to do with that.
Did he return home safely? Yes

Once again, for me, I would much rather believe there were good reasons for Obi Wan making the decisions he did, rather than saying he was wrong because it's not what I would do...

 

Not sure what you mean. His mission was to track down & catch Jango. As stated by Yoda in the Council meeting. After finding out the surprising info about the clone order & Syfo-Dyas he reported that to Yoda & Mace. That was fairly important news to relay as soon as possible. Then Yoda told him to finish his mission & bring Jango in. There's no getting around the fact that he took a one-man fighter on a mission that it was completely unsuited for. If he'd beaten Jango in the fight we would've seen just how bad that choice was. Wherever he caught up with Jango in the galaxy he was going to have that same problem.

Yeah it sure could have. We can only assess Obi-Wan's decision at the moment he made it. Without hindsight. This suggestion is that he thought "I'll take my one-man fighter, track down the killer & then call a transport to pick him up". There's glaring problems with that:
1. It assumes his communicator will be in good working order after this potentially dangerous mission. To track down a guy who uses high tech weapons & who bombs ships. Who may also have dangerous accomplices, like Obi had already witnessed (Zam). Indeed on this very mission we saw Obi's long range communicator damaged. He was unable to call back to Coruscant.
2. For the above stated reasons this could be a very hazardous mission. Bombing the ships of Senators ain't robbing the corner store. Obi would have to assume he'll run into some serious resistance here. So if he does arrest this killer, how could he possibly assume it will be in a quiet peaceful situation that will allow him to wait around for hours or days in who knows what location for a transport? This plan completely rules out a quick getaway. A quick getaway is a vital option on this type of mission. An absolute must.

& these aren't far-fetched potential problems. They're very obvious, esp to a smart & experienced operator like Obi-Wan. Throw in the complete vulnerability of the hyperspace ring & his choice of ship is just terrible IMO.

By successful you mean he set out to capture someone & they captured him?? I get what you mean though. At the end of the movie all's well that ends well. I'd say that was GL's thinking too. "Sure it doesn't make sense for Obi-Wan to take a one man ship to catch a crook, but with my hindsight I know that he doesn't catch him. So why should I bother getting my crew to invent a new & more appropriate ship?". Maybe Lucas has a point. Sometime corners can be cut for the sake of convenience. 99% of the audience wouldn't have thought of this. So I can certainly see that pov. I personally appreciate writers who do pay attention & even obsess over the small details. Who make sure intelligent characters make intelligent decisions, even when in the end, due to how the story pans out it doesn't matter.

 

Frankly anyone who really thinks whether it makes any difference whatsoever what ship Obi-Wan was in and why he chose that one really, really needs to have a long look at themselves and remember the MST3K Mantra: "It's just a movie, I really should relax."

Whether Obi-Wan turned up on a pedalo, in a star fighter or at the helm of a Star Destroyer, he would not have caught Jango, so does it really matter, really truly matter which ship he chose? No. There are perfectly valid reasons he made the choice he did, there are valid reasons for him to have made another, different choice. But 10 pages of the exact same argument repeatedly in (slightly) different words?

C'mon guys (and girls). Seriously?

 

But Obi-Wan is ordered to track down Jango, catch him and try to find out who he is working for.
Why would this NOT include bringing him to Coruscant?
Remember, Jango has been involved in the attempted murder of a republic senator.
A very serious crime I would imagine. So Jango, once arrested, would face criminal charges in a court of law. And this court is most likely on Coruscant.

So Obi-Wan would know that if he catches Jango and gets the name of his employer, he can't just let him go. Jango still has to face charges. So he then has to bring him to Coruscant.
And he doesn't know when or where he will catch up with Jango, if it is on a republic world or not.
If he could help from the locals or not.
Nor would he have any idea if he could sit around and wait for a transport to reach him.

And people have made arguments about cost, that the small fighter is cheaper.
But sending another ship would incur a cost plus an additional pilot.
So it would be cheaper for Obi-Wan to take a slightly bigger ship.
Thus he saves money, time, man-power and is more self-sufficient.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

but as you previously said :

so where's he gonna put these people in the 2 seater craft you've argued for ?



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He's only there to arrest the bounty hunter & killer. The one Zam mentioned. That's stated in the movie several times. If the guy has 50 associates he's not expected to bring them all in.

 

My suggestion is, and always has been, that Obi Wan, as a living, breathing... flesh and blood, free thinking, and intelligent person that lives in the Star Wars Universe would have weighed his options, would have thought about his mission, and how to complete it, would have done at least some research into the space his was heading into etc etc etc would than come to the conclusion as to the best way to complete his mission and still live to tell about it. He would have considered the pros and cons of what he was going to do, how he was going to do it with, as well as the materials and equipment he thought he might need and proceed with what he felt was best.

Obi Wan knows more about his mission, his abilities, his preferences, and especially the universe in which he lives, than you do! Yet your entire stance on this subject robs him of that, you rob him of being a person within the Star Wars universe and instead you put yourself ahead of Obi Wan as to know what is best for Obi Wan with less in-universe knowledge.

You do this based on knowing less about the Star Wars Universe than Obi Wan does who actually lives there while you live outside it and only get brief glimpses of what's happening inside it. Yet, you second guess him with knowing less, but assuming you are more knowledgeable based only on coming up with "what if" scenarios that mean nothing except to only support your own circular logic.

I could do a point by point post full of "what if" scenarios myself that Obi Wan could have thought of that would lead to him believing the Fighter was a better choice, but, again, that would be useless because you would not accept any possibility or plausibility behind those scenarios as valid because your stance is that Obi Wan is stupid, made a bad decision, and should have done what you would have done. Even though you are not Obi Wan and do not have the in-universe knowledge that he does, yet you second guess him.

I will not second guess Obi Wan's decision because he knows more about his universe, his abilities, his short-comings, his mission, his equipment, etc etc than I do.

All I will do, is assume that Obi Wan, as a living, breathing, flesh and blood, free thinking, intelligent person, weighed his options and came to the conclusion to use the fighter because that is what he thought was best for him to do. All I can do is come up with possible and plausible scenarios as to why he thought the Fighter was better, I will not second guess him because I do not have the knowledge he does.

And it can be very well argued that his choice in picking the smaller fighter (smaller hit box, more maneuverable) over a larger more transport oriented ship is what saved his life to at least be captured. I would take being captured with hope of rescue over being blown apart by Jango while in space any day..

And here it is yet again, just can't help yourself can you? Another shot at Lucas in a thread that has nothing to do with critiquing writing...

 

is he ? because I remember Mace clearly saying :
"most importantly find out who he's working for "obviously there's other involved in this and Jango isn't even the top guy .

so if he encounters any of the other conspirators he's not gonna bother with them in your scenario ?

I notice that you relentlessly ask others where Kenobi is supposed to put Jango in his ship but when I ask you basically the same question you just keep dodging it .
but I'll ask again anyway - where's he gonna put any of these other conspirators in the 2 seater ship you've given him?

you can't answer it because you've written yourself into a corner .

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AFAIK , (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but the jedi starfighter was a new design for AOTC wasn't it ?

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Actually the writing is kind of relevant here.
Since this isn't a documentary or live footage.
And the character of Obi-Wan can only say and do what the writer, Lucas, has written out for him.
So if Obi-Wan does or says something that makes no sense, the person responsible is the writer, Lucas.

Ex. say that when Obi-Wan came after Jango, instead of a lightsaber, he came out tossing balloons at Jango. You could make the argument you made right here, that Obi-Wan is smart and intelligent and had weighted his options and decided that balloons was the best way to subdue Jango.
Most people would probably wonder why Obi-Wan is tossing balloons at Jango.

To take less silly example, C3PO's presence in the rebel team on Endor. The rest of the team are in camouflage as to not be visible and yet they bring shiny, golden C3PO?
And what are his skills, language and protocol. Would those skills be obviously useful for the mission to blow up the shield generator? Not really.
So why bring him?
The writer needs C3PO to be there because of the Ewoks but the characters didn't know that.
So them taking him along for no discernable reason and it working out extremely well can be seen as contrived writing.

Same thing with Qui-Gon bringing little Anakin into a warzone in TPM. No reason given and no reason that makes much sense can be assumed given that Qui-Gon did have options to leave Anakin in safer places.
But the plot, ie the writer, needed Anakin to be there and so he is, logic and reason be damned.

To sum up, the writing is responsible for everything that happens.
Lucas could have written that Obi-Wan took a slightly bigger ship, the same events play out exactly as is and your argument works just as well. Obi-Wan, being smart and thinking, picks a ship that is a bit bigger because he needs to transport his captured prey.
Except now, no one would wonder why Obi-Wan didn't take a small, one-man fighter that needs booster rings to travel.

@gezvader28

You do realize that your argument is basically that Obi-Wan takes a ship that doesn't allow him to bring back even ONE person and that is better than him taking a slightly bigger ship that would allow him to bring back at least one.
How is bringing back ZERO people better than bringing back at least one?

His orders was to track down and catch Jango. And find out who he is working for.
So he had an apprehend order for Jango but not for his employer.

Also, think about it, Jango failed his mission, Padme is still alive. So his employer might not be very pleased to see him as he has nothing to show for the money he has paid.
So would Jango be with his employer? Possible certainly but odds are good that he is instead in hiding. Or trying to complete his contract.

But the best ship would probably be something like slave-one. Big enough for a couple of prisoners. Fast and flexible and equipped well.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

Possibly in the case of R2 (who is almost as shiny as 3PO) - R2 is there to open locks, and 3PO, as R2's "counterpart" can communicate with him when beeping cannot convey a complex message.

 

1) Luke didn't bring C3PO with him to Dagobah and he communicated just fine with R2.
2) How can R2 even move around in that uneven terrain?
3) If C3PO is so vital, spray-paint him green or put some green clothes on him. He is humanoid so clothes would fit him.
Having all but one person be in camouflage seems a bit odd.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

I seem to recall that Han consistently wore his own pilot's outfit with no camouflage.

There's hints that he's guessing:

"If you're saying coming here was a bad idea, I agree with you."

 

well I suppose if me and DD were in absolute agreement on every other point in this debate and that ^ was all that was left then you'd have a point , but since I agree with him on virtually none of his arguments - no .

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