PT What was Obi Wan's plan on Kamino?

Well, his comlink's long range capabilities were damaged, but his short range worked. Likewise, long range can easily be destroyed in a two-man Y-Wing or in a larger ship. Note that the Queen's ship loses its hyperdrive trying to escape from Naboo and the Millennium Falcon's was also on the fritz. In fact, the latter took so much heavy damage on the rear deflector shield, that one more hit would vaporize them.

Well, he was on Kamino which was not a hostile environment other than the storms. The Kaminoans themselves were passive and not involved. When he's on Geonosis, he gets captured regardless of his ship or not. Likewise, Jango could easily flown Slave I around and fired upon Obi-wan's ship while it is docked. The Falcon, which is docked in Docking Bay 94 is shot at as Han is trying to get it ready.

 

I agree, it seems they never have much of a conversation outside of the X-Wing. Artoo's replies to Luke always seemed to depend on emotional tone rather than actual words that Luke understands. When Luke is in the X-Wing they have more coherent conversations as Luke reads the translator in the X-Wing instrument panel for example when they leave Hoth...

 

Rey's conversations with BB8 seemed rather more complex - suggesting that she understands binary rather than is guessing from context.

Was there anything similar in the PT with R2 and Anakin, outside a ship's cockpit?

 

I agree, she actually seems to understand what he is saying...

Off the top of my head I can't recall anything. The movie with the highest likely-hood of them talking to one another would be ROTS, and I just can't place a scene where they hold a conversation like the one Luke held with Artoo in ESB. Once the battle of Coruscant is over, the droids are more in the background...

In ROTS, there is a scene where Obi Wan acknowledges something R4 is saying, yet again though, there is a suggestion that he is reading it off the instrument panel...

Another scene is where they crash in the hangar, and Obi Wan and Anakin start to walk away, Artoo whistles to get their attention, in which Anakin tells him to stay.

It always seems that the characters are talking too Artoo, and not actually with him...

 

Exactly so if you take a ship that can store your prisoner you don't need to rely on a communicator or wait around for hours or days for a ride, hoping you're not killed while doing so. Seems like a common sense strategy.

We're talking about his planning for his mission & his decision in choosing his ship. All Kamino was to him was a place where the toxic dart came from. The first lead among many. He was to continue tracking Jango until he caught him. That could've been anywhere.

You're just making things up & deliberately coming to the wrong conclusions. Several times in the movie it's clearly stated that Obi-Wan's mission is to find & catch one person. The bounty hunter who Zam named & who killed her. Who hired her to kill Padme. In addition he's to find out who he's working for. Get it? That's one arrest & some fact-finding. The best & most obvious way to get that information is to question the killer once he's caught & brought back. Which is exactly what Obi tried to do on that platform.

GL's writing is relevant to every in-universe discussion there is.

Now Mike I have some bad news. I'm being serious now. I need you to sit down for this. Are you ready? Ok, here it comes. Santa Claus Obi-Wan is not real! He's made up. Written by a guy in a flannelette shirt. So you don't need to worry pal. We can critique him & the other characters all we like. We're not questioning their integrity. We're giving our opinions on how the made-up characters in a movie should or shouldn't behave. Now are you going to be ok? Course you are, you took that news like a champ

I'd rather have a bigger more well armed & armored ship even in that situation. One where we can throw our target in a brig for the journey home. Not try to strap him to a wing. Of course Obi shouldn't have had that starship fight at all. After failing to arrest a thug with a jetpack, he then makes the mistake of placing a tracking device on his ship to apprehend him at his destination. Yet he blows his position before he gets to that destination. Shortly after that he's arrested himself...by his target! This really is Obi-Wan's most laughably terrible performance ever. Don't tell him I said that

 

Han did wear a green camouflage jacket at least some of the time.



And Han understood the repair droid in ESB when he said, "there has got to be a problem, check the other end."
So basically how much people understand droids like R2 and the like is a bit varied.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Darth Downunder

you've been posing questions about these hypothetical scenarios to others throughout the thread , but when I pose the same sort of questions to you about your scenario you don't like it . And anyway you already brought up cohorts and co-conspirators who may aid Jango yourself , so what would Kenobi do about these others should he encounter them ?, but you've no answer.
He knew at the start of the mission others were involved .

well I've asked you enough times and you've no answer , so he just leaves the other co-conspirators to go free and do what they want , a terrible solution .

You complained that Kenobi acted stupidly by choosing a one man ship , but you've then gone on to present him as a witless coward - afraid to board Slave 1 , can't get past a 10 year old , if he encounters any other conspirators he just ignores them by chanting "find and catch one person find and catch one person " .

I'm sorry DD but I find your 'rewrite' of this story pretty awful , and to maintain your original criticism you've written yourself into a corner , and Kenobi would just leave co-conspirators on Kamino and free to carry on .

.I'd love to hear the conversation with Mace on his return .

Mace: So you found the assassin , great , any other involved .
Kenobi : oh , yeah , but I left them behind .
Mace : uh why?
Kenobi : yoda said find and catch just one person and I only had room for one anyway .
Mace: were there no other ships ?
Kenobi: oh yeah Jango had a big ship , but . . .
Mace : what ?
Kenobi : well it might have had booby traps and . . .
Mace : what ?
Kenobi : well there was a 10 year old boy . . .look yoda said find and catch one person !
Mace : *sigh* , you didn't think of calling for a transport ?
Kenobi : well , no , that's boring .
Mace: or asking the Kaminoans for help ?
Kenobi : look yoda said find and catch one person.. .
Mace : I'm gonna kick yo ass !

.



.

 

Emperor Ferus

Friend, are you already happy with what you've asked? If so, and I think your likes seem to be a satisfaction that the thread has been answered? Yes?

MJ

 

Lm

lmao, yes I am. I honestly didn't expect this thread to be so popular.

 

Awesome.

That's good. I had something prepared but wanted your input and thus I will let this one go.

Cheers!

MJ

 

Yes I do have an answer. Actually I'll re-phrase that, the movie has an answer. It's made clear about 5 times in the movie that Obi-Wan's mission was to track down & catch one person. Yoda (twice), Anakin & Obi-Wan himself say this throughout the movie. That's not a question. It's not up for debate. It was his mission. There's nothing wrong with a black-ops style mission to locate & bring in one killer. Happens all the time in these kinds of stories. So I'm not sure why you're trying to pretend it will be some huge dilemma if & when Obi-Wan finds him with some cohorts, friends, or allies on some criminal world. That would be quite expected. In fact you said yourself: they all knew before the mission that others would be involved. Yet they still gave him that mission: to catch "the killer". If they wanted to round up the killer & all of his associates in this one mission they wouldn't have sent one Jedi. They would've sent a team in a large vessel. End of story on that point.

That being said, as we both agree other people were known or suspected to be involved. They already saw him operating on Coruscant with another killer. He was also likely to mix with other unsavory criminal types. So without question Obi couldn't assume he'd be lucky enough to find his target sitting alone somewhere in the galaxy completely unguarded & unprotected. So therefore it'd be naive in the extreme to rely on being able to wait around for hours or days for a transport, if & when he caught him. So choosing a one-man ship was nuts. I really would've thought that by now after all of these pages describing this situation in minute detail you would've understood this.

You contradict yourself. You agree that back at the time Obi was given the mission it was already known that the killer would be associated with others. So if they knew this & STILL gave him the clear mission to "catch this killer" then he would've perfectly completed his mission if he'd brought him back & him alone. From there they could question him, find out more & take further action if necessary. As it turned out Obi-Wan failed to apprehend the killer & embarrassingly was arrested by him! Yoda & Mace had to go in & clean up the mess themselves. I think I read that Obi-Wan's punishment for all of his screw-ups was sitting in the corner of the Council chamber during all meetings for a week with a dunce hat on while sucking his thumb. Seems fair.

 

You've presented your case well Downunder. This is not a big deal but when analyzed (aka nitpicked) Obi-Wans judgement doesnt look great throughout this mission.

 

He could have stuffed Jango in the spare parts canisters in the trunk of his ship. Thread closed.

 

New evidence has come to light about where Obi-Wan could store Jango:

 

Darth Downunder

yes , yes I know the mantra .
right , so basically it doesn't matter if Kenobi encounters any of the other conspirators , he'll only bring in Jango because that's what Yoda said to do (!) , you've turned him into some sort of pedantic robot that can't improvise with the situation as it changes , well done .

"perfectly completed " even if he lets the other conspirators go , LOL!
So when Mace asks him why he let the others go without even trying to have them apprehended Kenobi just keeps saying "well you only told me to catch the one " .
Mace and Yoda don't know what Kenobi will find but I tend to think that they expect him to see the bigger picture , and since there are others involved would expect him to do something about that should he have the chance .

what sort of bonehead is this guy you've come up with ?
he's cowardly , can't improvise , let's the baddies go and acts like some pedantic jobsworth .But on the plus side he's got a 2 seater ship which I'm sure makes up for everything .

.

 

A communicator is going to be necessary if your ship decides to blow a gasket before getting somewhere. Be it a fighter or a large freighter. Waiting hours isn't an issue since Jedi are taught to be patient. Jango could still get free when Obi-wan is flying aboard a two man Y-Wing or even the Millennium Falcon.

And he chose to use the only vessel that the Jedi Temple had at the time. Everyone was using them, not just himself.

Obi-wan didn't make a mistake following Jango with a tracking device. He had to in order to bring him in as he was instructed to do. Just because Jango found out that he was behind him doesn't negate that decision. This is no more a bad decision than it was for the Empire to place a tracking device on the Falcon, in order to find the Rebel base.

To be fair, the Stormtroopers and Scout Troopers are just as bad wearing white in a forest.



They get spotted easily by the strike team.

 

You just figured that out.

 

You really have gone off on the strangest tangent in this discussion. The intelligence Obi-Wan got from Zam was that a bounty hunter hired her. He was sent to track this guy down & catch him. He may have no goons or thugs with him, he may have 50. Irrespective, this particular mission was to only bring in that one particular person. If you think that's a ridiculous mission don't complain to me. Write & tell Lucas he's a dork for not having his dialogue mention accomplices & associates as part of Obi-Wan's mission.

You can write "LOL" as often as you like. You're not going to be able to show that it's stupid or unusual to have an operative go off alone to catch one particular target (watch TDK & pay attention to Batman's mission to Hong Kong). Once in custody they can question him, find out more & take further action if needed. Which is exactly what Yoda & Mace planned to do. Everything about the plan was sound & made sense. Except when Jango gets arrested there's nowhere to put him.

Again, a completely unconvincing attempt to make a reasonable mission sound unreasonable. If variations of this argument are all you have to offer I suggest we move on.

 

No the problem with waiting hours or days isn't the test of patience. It's not allowing for a quick getaway, which is a vital option on this type of dangerous mission (catching a terrorist).

Assumptions. As if the Jedi & Republic have no other craft but little one-man fighters. I imagine there's been occasions where a Jedi needs to go in & rescue a person from a dangerous situation. Maybe an injured or stranded Jedi, or any other kind of person in trouble. What small but reasonably nimble ship would they use? You're telling me there's nothing at all for such a potentially common mission?? "Too bad, we'll have to leave that person to their fate. No suitable ship" .

Using the tracker was a good idea. I meant he made the mistake of not tracking him to his destination before making his presence known. He was like someone following their target in a car but flashing his lights & honking his horn from behind. It was a complete blunder. If it didn't play out as it did what other outcome was Obi-Wan hoping for? He let himself get in a lethal dogfight with his target. A target he could've tracked from afar until he landed. So now either he was going to be destroyed or Jango was. Either way, mission failed. They wanted Jango alive. As it turned out Obi thought his way out of that & then found a different way to fail his mission. Get arrested himself by his target.

Except Han didn't look in his rear vision mirror & see the Death Star behind him. They weren't silly enough to follow & be detected. Leia guessed they were being tracked. She's quite clever.

 

And it is no different with a hyperdrive ship. The Falcon can vanish and not be found by the Empire. The Empire has to resort to other tactics to find their quarry. This also assumes that Jango is smart enough to know what Obi-wan used to come there and makes him dumb for not destroying his ship on Kamino.

What the Republic has and what the Jedi have are different things. If a Jedi needs help in their fighter, they'll call for help or find other means. See TPM and ROTS.

.

Did it occur to you that the tracking device might have a limited range and that he had to already go into hyperspace ASAP, or risk losing him? And the mission wasn't a failure. Obi-wan tricked Jango into thinking he was dead, managed to make it to Geonosis and reported back to the Council that Jango was working for the Federation and they were behind the assassination attempts and are building an army to attack the Republic. Just because he got captured doesn't negate that.

And Han's dumb enough to not stop, check for it and destroy it, so that the Empire couldn't find Yavin 4.

 

I wasn't talking about a hyperdrive ship here. I was talking about Obi-Wan going off to catch a dangerous criminal in a one-man ship. If he catches him he can't quickly take off with him. He needs to hold him in a headlock & wait hours or days for a transport. Hoping in all of that time the guy doesn't have some thugs that will kill him while he's standing around. It's an absurd strategy. A quick getaway is an essential option. Imagine if Batman's plan was to find & arrest Lau in Hong Kong & then call Fox & wait 10 hours to be picked up!

Obi-Wan parked his fighter on a Kamino platform for all to see. A fighter that would be well known to the Jedi's enemies to require a hyperspace ring. Jango could've easily known about it & taken it out while leaving the planet.

Again, what would a Jedi use to go into a dangerous area & rescue a stranded fellow Jedi or some other important person? Whatever ship they'd use, Obi should've taken that. What they wouldn't do is go in to rescue someone in a one-man fighter. How moronic would that be? Same deal with a mission to catch a killer.

No, it's just something you're making up to explain Obi's blunder. The reason he blew his position is so we could have a cool space fight.

Obi-Wan was trying to catch up with him, arrest him & bring him back. Only place he could do that was at his destination. If he'd succeeded he would've brought Jango back for questioning. The Jedi could've then calmly without any rush decided what to do about the conspiracy to kill Padme & the clone army. Rather than play into Palpatine's hands all at once. Obi-Wan's buffoonery played into Sidious' hands perfectly in this movie.

That was Leia's call. She wanted the Death Star to come to Yavin so they could throw everything they had at it. An all or nothing strategy, rather than risk another Alderaan.

 

The mistake is Obi-Wan getting within scanning/visual range of Jango's ship and thus getting detected.
And your excuse of "limited range" is silly. So in order to track a ship with a tracking device you must be within visual/scanning range? Kind of defeats the whole purpose doesn't it?
If you need to be that close then why even bother with a tracking device?
Just use your eyes/scanners.

And pretty much the only reason why Obi-Wan is this stupid is because the film needs an action scene.

[/QUOTE]

You rather missed the point.
NONE of the scout troopers are dressed in camouflage so obviously the Empire isn't interested in having troops that blend in or are not spotted easily. You can debate if this is smart but at least it is consistent. And given that a legion of the Empire's best troops got beaten by Ewoks, we can see that they aren't very bright.
IF all but ONE of the scout troopers had been in camouflage and the last on was in white, then you would have a point.
The issue here is that the rebels dress in camouflage so they are trying to not be seen and blend in.
Taking along a shiny golden android that also have trouble keeping quiet isn't conducive to that goal.

It would be like a SEAL team trying sneak into an enemy base, they are dressed in black/camouflage and take care to be silent. And yet they also bring along a hip-hopper with a large music box who plays music very loudly.
Doesn't make much sense does it?

As I've said, if this is the case, the Jedi and senate are morons.
The Jedi is the republic's main/only people that deal with galatic problems big and small.
So for the republic to deliberately limit the Jedi by denying them ships except one man fighters is shooting themselves in the foot.
It would be like cops in America not be given modern weapons and instead had to use 18th century muskets. It serves no good purpose and makes their job much harder.
Let the Jedi have a wide variety of ships so they can do their job and not have to run to senate every time they need a slightly bigger ship.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

We know from TCW that the Jedi have an intermediate between the Ambassadorial Corvette and the 1-man fighter - shuttles:

but those are either unarmed:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T-6_shuttle

or lightly armed

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eta-class_shuttle/Canon

 

What thugs? Where are these hypothetical thugs? If Obi-wan disarms Jango, strips him of his weapons and armor and lock him in his room, he ain't going to be a threat. And as to thugs, Obi-wan is a frickin' Jedi. He can take out five or six dudes. If Luke can kill a bunch of Jabba's men without breaking a sweat, Obi-wan can certainly do the same.

Oh, the horror. It's not like Bruce couldn't just truss him up and wait in some dingey warehouse.

Just as he could easily blow up any spaceship that doesn't require a hyperspace ring, that's sitting on a platform. But he didn't do that. Hell, TPM shows us the Jedi losing their ride and having to come up with an alternate plan to get down to Naboo and then get off of it. Obi-wan is betrayed in ROTS and has no ship of his own, but he manages to find a ship in order to escape. Yoda manages to find an escape pod.

The Jedi would contact a rescue ship to go and pick up one of their own. One nearest to Obi-wan.

Again, this assumes that it was a blunder.

The Jedi weren't to blame for that. The minute this whole thing began, they were being pushed into doing what Palpatine wanted them to do. The Senate would find out about the Clone Army, because the Council told the Loyalist Committee and the Chancellor about it. Then the Senate would grant Emergency Powers to Palpatine and he would deploy the Clone Army. The only crime the Jedi had in this was that they investigated who was trying to kill Padme, which started a chain of events that lead to the war.

Uh, no. Han wasn't going to listen to Leia. She wasn't the boss of him. He was very certain that no tracking device would be placed on board, nor could the Empire track his last known trajectory. And Leia's decision was also filled with risks, because what if the Death Star didn't have a weakness? Not to mention they don't know that only a Jedi could make that shot and Luke could have easily gotten blown out of the sky. Lots of risks there as well.