PT What was Obi Wan's plan on Kamino?

In short, yes, Obi-Wan WAS very badly prepared for the task of fighting and capturing Jango... because he didn't know that was what he needed to prepare FOR. If you compare it to he and Qui-Gonn's first arrival to ''negotiate'' in TPM or his later mission to kill/capture Grievous in AOTC there are a variety of options available to him or any other Jedi. He just made the logical assumption a small one man craft would be enough. (The same size craft as they were intending to rescue Palpatine with in ROTS so presumably there is somewhere to keep a second passenger.)

 

The movie & the dialogue just doesn't match up with your version of events or Obi-Wan's objectives. It's repeatedly stated that Obi-Wan is going off to find the bounty hunter. Anakin: "It won't take Master Obi-Wan long to find this bounty hunter". He's saying to Padme that she needs to be in hiding until then, which she finds annoying.
Yoda: "Until caught this killer is, our judgement she must respect". Again the message is that Padme is being hidden until Obi-Wan finds him & removes the danger he poses. Which means arrest him. The Jedi don't murder people. Giving him a good talking to or making him pinky-promise not to go after Padme also won't be enough. His mission was to arrest him. In addition he wants to find out who hired him. Arresting him & questioning him was the way to do that. Which Yoda confirms later in the movie. Notice that Obi-Wan wasn't interested in covertly following Jango from Kamino, even though he easily could have. Taking him into custody was his first choice.

So, Obi-Wan is using the only lead he has to find Jango. He seems very confident that one way or another he'll succeed. Kamino was just the first breadcrumb in what he thought would be many. Doesn't matter that he found Jango on his first stop or if it had been his 12th stop. He still would've been off on the mission with his ship of choice. There's no hint whatsoever that this was just part one of his mission. That he's to locate Jango & then come back & change ships. Or have someone else pick him up in a bigger ship. They're just fan excuses to explain his tiny ship. In fact Yoda confirms that Obi was to bring Jango back himself. Which he agrees to do.

If it were James Bond of course he'd apprehend the killer/terrorist & bring him in. Or give him to another agent or ally somewhere. He's hands-on, not some reconnaissance scout. Just like Obi-Wan is.

 

You skipped a few steps there though. Anakin tells Padme Obi-Wan is going to find the assassin, then they go off to Naboo. Obi-Wan only finds out that Kamino was taken out of the database later and that becomes just as much part of his mission as finding Jango was. Yoda simply says that they intend to catch the assassin and until they have, Padme is not safe. Again this is before the assassin turns out to be using weapons from a planet that technically does not exist, so this is clearly something quite a lot bigger than one Senator's safety.

The one-man ship he uses is at least the same size or possibly a little larger than the one he uses in ROTS with the intention of bringing Palpatine back in it (or Anakin's which is the same size) so whether you think so or not, clearly there is space for a second person, simply not a second pilot.

 

No way. It was just another element to it. "The plot thickens" type of thing. Before he left when he was planning for the mission it was all about catching the assassin & protecting Padme.

Yet the Senator's safety was the primary concern.

No, one blunder does not excuse another. The Jedi starfighter is strictly a one-man ship. No room for a passenger. They must've had other ideas for the Chancellor. They were boarding a capital ship, so it's not unreasonable to expect to find a shuttle or something on board.

We're going around in circles here. Fact is Obi-Wan planned & hoped to find Jango. What else was there to do but arrest him & take him into custody? Which is exactly what he tried to do.

 

With the ship that he had. Which therefore must have been up to the task, which therefore did have the capacity to transport a prisoner. Ta-da!

 

Well squeezing him into the ship makes more sense than the other options put forward.

 

Admittedly as plans go it's not great but given the only person in the prequels who seems to know what a plan even is seems to be Palpatine I guess it's the best we can do for an explanation.

It's not likely to be a very pleasant trip for whoever gets squeezed in there but in this case that someone is an assassin/bounty hunter so can't really cry too much if he gets a bit of what he dished out.

 

That's the most logical solution, but what if Obi Wan didn't know where Slave One was?

 

Something also to think about is what they'd do with Boba?

 

Leave Boba on Kamino. He's not an accomplice to anything Jango did, clearly the Kaminoans could/would look after him whilst daddy Fett wasn't around and come back for him later.

 

Lets' try to break this down,

1) Obi-Wan was after Jango and part of the goal was to arrest him and bring him back. He went to Kamino hoping for clues but in the end, he knew that at some point he would have to arrest Jango and get him back to Coruscant.

So a ship that is capable of holding a prisoner is obviously the better choice. Esp since Obi-Wan doesn't know if he might get lucky and catch Jango's employer as well.

2) So why didn't he use one?

A myriad of excuses have been made here.

The Jedi don't have anything except one-man fighters.
Seems stupidly impractical.

Obi-Wan was uncomfortable flying anything bigger.
This has very little basis in the films and it seems out of character for Obi-Wan to put his own comfort above the mission.

Obi-Wan planned to either go back to Coruscant for a new ship as soon as he found Jango or call for transport.
The former is quite stupid and the latter is not much better. Why waste time or risk that he can't get a transport for no reason? Take a bigger ship from the start.

Bigger ships cost more.
Again not based on anything in the films.

The bigger ships are weak, slow or will get blown up easy.
This is again not based on the films as plenty of slightly bigger ship are quite agile and fast. Plus they often are more durable and can take more hits.
Take ESB, the MF survived several hits from asteroids while the TIE's didn't.

3) The real reason is as DD has said, Lucas knew that Obi-Wan wouldn't arrest Jango so no need for him to have a bigger ship.
But this is slightly dodgy writing.

It would like in a heist movie, some guys have to blow up a door to get what they want. But they don't bring any explosives and just go there and when they arrive, look at that, the door just happens to be open.

Take RotJ, Han and co go to Endor to blow up the shield generator. So a number of rebel commandos go with them. They don't do much and you could have the team just be Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie and the droids.
But that would look a bit silly so they get help from a number of rebel commandos.
And they mostly dress in green as to avoid being seen. Something which is slightly spoiled by bringing along a shiny golden android.
But the point is that they plan for the mission, they bring more people and dress accordingly.

It is very minor yes, a nit pick really.
But it doesn't do Obi-Wan any favors in looking competent. But other things are far worse in that regard.

@Iron_lord

A better analogy would be a cop or federal agent going out in some rural area, in search of a criminal and with the goal to arrest him and bring him back. This cop has a few leads and plans to follow them. But he is also rather cut off and can't get help quickly.
So what vehicle makes the most amount of sense, a car or a motorcycle?
Both gets the cop where he needs to go but one is capable of transporting prisoners and one isn't.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Kamino's not a "home country rural area" though - it's a foreign country, so to speak.

 

Bigger ships costing more doesn't NEED to be based on anything in the films. It's common sense. Bigger ship - needs more maintenance/fuel/etc. - costs more. Unless for some reason Jedi ships are for some reason super-souped up hot rod muscle car equivalents (which also isn't based on anything in the films, and is completely illogical besides) then yes, a one man craft for one man to make a journey does at least have a modicum of financial and practical sense to it.

 

But Obi-Wan wasn't on a spy mission. He was on a locate & arrest mission. Only way to ensure the Senator's safety.

Not when the objective's is to apprehend a dangerous criminal. To stop him making any further assignation attempts.

Another way to look at this is to imagine what Lucas would've done if he'd planned for Obi-Wan to win the fight & successfully arrest Jango. In the story he's brought back to Coruscant for questioning. What is Lucas likely to've written. In the movie would Obi-Wan:

Call back to Coruscant & then wait around for a transport?
Take Jango inside & ask the Kaminoans to lock him up until he gets back from Coruscant himself with a bigger ship?
Dismember Jango with his lightsaber & squeeze what's left of him in the spare parts compartment?
Simply have Obi-Wan take a 2 man fighter, or a shuttle complete with a prisoner facility?

I think the last option is 99% likely. The ship would have its own toy line. It would be famous. After that if anyone suggested that Obi-Wan was stupid for taking that ship & not a one-man fighter they'd be laughed at. It's that obvious & logical as his choice of ship.

 

I'm going to start a pool (I'm throwing in $10) on how much longer we're going to have the same circular arguments about why Obi-Wan took a one man fighter instead of a freighter or something that would have required a co-pilot. I'm saying 10 days. Any other takers?

 

I predict four more days here, but that sometime in the next few months the same argument will somehow get started again in another thread, after which there will be another week or so of exactly the same arguments.

Samuel Vimes you left out the most likely explanation, which is that Obi-Wan thought the most likely outcome would be to find the assassin in Republic controlled space, where he would have no need to personally transport anyone and could simply hand over the captive to local authorities. Is there a possibility he would end up outside Republic space? Sure, of course, Kamino itself is in the outer rim, but it's only a small inconvenience at worst, and chances are in that case that he can always commandeer the captive's ship and have R4 fly the fighter back to Coruscant.

There's a reason why we see all the militaries in Star Wars relying almost exclusively on one or two-man fighters for combat outside of capital ships, while the mediun-sized ships are mostly used as shuttles and transports. Clearly in Star Wars, as in our own world, maneuverability is essential to survival in aerial combat. This has been true in our world all the way back to WWI, where small maneuverable biplanes, not larger blimps or heavier planes, were the premiere air-to-air craft of their day, a trend which became even more apparent in WWII and the cold war as technology advanced. If medium-sized ships in Star Wars don't have any real drawbacks compared to small fighters, why would all the navies we see from the Naboo defense force to the droid armies to the Republican and Imperial and rebel navies all still rely on fighters?

In the case of the asteroid field chase, Kenobi survives because he is able to dodge 99% of the shots fired at him, and then outsmart the guided missile. There's simply no way a freighter could have done the same thing. Again, taking the fighter turned out to actually be the RIGHT move, despite all the second guessing happening here. It saves his life in the asteroid field, and if he had succeeded in capturing Jango on Kamino he could have simply used Slave 1. The only time the fighter would be the wrong choice is if:
1) he captures the bounty hunter outside Republic space
2) the captive does not have a suitable ship at hand
3) not being able to immediately transport the prisoner puts Kenobi in danger somehow

On the other hand, the fighter is the better choice if:
1) he finds himself in a threatening situation in space
2) the lead turns out to be a dead-end
3) the lead brings him back to Republic space
4) the bounty hunter has a suitable ship

I'd say he made a reasonable decision which actually turned out to be the correct one.

 

JoshieHewls I give it six before the Mods close it down. I am dirt poor so will throw in, like, twenty monopoly dollars instead of real cash.

 

Yeah, this forum has a lot of these endless, pointless arguments. The correct answer to this thread is "who cares".

I mean, I DO think it's a bit of a hole, but the tiniest of holes, and I don't care. At all. It's the most trivial thing ever. It has no significance of any kind to anything.

But, if people want to carry on, that's fine. *shrugs* I can always skip over this thread, which I often have. It's just a lot of threads devolve into this mess and it becomes necessary to skip them, which leaves few threads even worth checking.

 

1 and 2 combined - take Jango inside, lock him up - then call, and remain on Kamino with Jango until transport arrives.

 

Yes, they were going to either take the bridge or as they say, go to the hangars and steal a ship. They never make it there and so they have to land the badly damaged Invisible Hand.

First off, Obi-wan wasn't expecting Jango to be on Kamino. He was expecting to question whoever was in charge about who purchased one of their poison darts and see if he could track him from there. He figured that the bounty hunter had gone elsewhere, but may have left some piece of information that would make tracking him much easier. If he didn't, then Obi-wan would up a creek without a paddle as Kamino was all he had to go on. Once he's on the tour with Lama Su and Taun We, he learns that Jango is there.

OBI-WAN: "And where is this bounty hunter now?"

LAMA SU: "Oh, we keep him around."

After talking to him, he reports back to the Council rather than make an immediate arrest. He states that he is confident that Jango is the man that they're looking for and he is told to bring him back. Obi-wan's last words to Yoda and Mace was that he would report back once he had Jango in custody. This could mean that he intended to fly to Coruscant with him, or contact them and arrange for a transport. As to Jango getting away and the tracking device, Obi-wan follows him because he either doesn't want Jango to find and ditch the device, or he suspects that he might be going to whoever hired him in the first place. But his mandate to bring him in now, has not changed. Note that once he's on Geonosis and has seen what's going on, he reports back as he intended. He never gets to finish his report as he's attacked and so that sets things in motion. While locked up, he says to Dooku that he's there for Jango and that once he's let go, he intends to finish what he started. Course, he's also thinking that he won't be let go.

 

Yes it is all very silly. So however is your example here. Pretending the only alternative is some big clumsy freighter that requires a co-pilot. If the movie went that Obi-Wan arrested Jango, put binders on his wrists, threw him in his two-man fighter (the equivalent of a Y-Wing) & after Jango struggles & gives him some lip he waves a hand & puts him to sleep with the Force while delivering an amusing quip you'd be hailing Lucas as a genius writer who thinks of everything.

This was the classic detective police search. He'd hope Kamino would be the first clue that would lead to others. In the end he seemed very confident he'd find & apprehend Jango. He told Padme she'll "be back here in no time". Which means the threat would be gone which means no more Jango. Only way to allow Padme back was to get the killer "off the streets". Since the Jedi don't execute criminals that means an arrest. For an arrest in some remote part of the galaxy you need a place to keep a prisoner. Not a complicated equation this one.

What an exciting movie sequence that would be. The biggest problem with this theory is the quick getaway. Which is a staple of SW. When Obi-Wan was planning the mission he must've considered that this bounty hunter is bad news. That he flies around on jetpacks, uses toxic darts & bombs ships. He's no amateur, & who knows what kinds of accomplices & cronies he has. So if he is lucky enough to find him & arrest him there's every likelihood he'll be met with serious resistance. What's unlikely is that he'll have all the time in the world to calmly wait around for hours or days for a transport. As we've seen so often, he may need to quickly throw Jango into his ship & take off just in a nick of time with blaster fire reining up at him. The classic quick getaway. This plan of yours completely removes this option for him. No quick getaway possible. He has to hope he can arrest Jango alone without all of that heat. Just further adds to the absurdity of the plan. Added to that, we see in this very mission how unreliable his communicator is to call home from long range. It let him down on Geonosis. If Anakin hadn't been nearby he wouldn't have been able to call anyone!

 

The communicator only had a problem because it was damaged in the asteroid field. It was functioning perfectly fine before that.

 

Ummm, no DD. You're not about to pull that strawman crap with me. The whole point of my post is that the ******* argument has been circular and has gone on for 7 pages with the same **** repeated over and over. Give it a rest. Seriously. Go make some cocoa, sit down, chill, and maybe realize, "You know, I like a good discussion. But do I really want to belabor my point for weeks on in and call others' point of view on so ridiculous a matter as to how Obi-Wan was going to transport Jango 'silly' or 'reaching', thereby going out of my way to tick people off as I go over all possibilities that aren't even part of the plot (see booby-traps) in order to weakly back up my stance?" I mean, is that really what you want to do?


I like you, DD. I at least used to think that you were misunderstood and weren't going out of your way to tick people off. But for the love of all that is holy, dude. Give it a ******* rest. We get it.

 

Exactly so how can Obi-Wan allow his entire mission to hinge on one communicator being in good working order following a dangerous mission? How can he assume he'll arrest Jango in a safe & peaceful environment that lets him chill & wait around for a transport? Yet if he takes a 2 man fighter he can get Jango back himself AND make a quick getaway if necessary.

Tone down the personal criticism JH. Always remember, the only people who engage in any discussion are those who want to. No one has a gun to their head.

 

Yoda only talked about bringing Jango back only after the first Obi Wan report. It was not the plan from the start. Also Obi Wan was just being polite when he said she'll back in no time, considering the military creation act fate was to be decided and Padme wanted to remain in Coruscant.

MJ