what was the plan to rescue solo from jabba's palace?

Yeah, I'd say that's a good summary of it. Thus the intentional failures, such as Luke's blaster shot at Jabba and Leia taking off her disguise.

 

sorry but i dont' buy it, and if that was the intent it was VERY poorly executed on film and a failure.

I think that is wishful thinking and people giving lucas more credit as a writer than is deserved.

His stories are great because they are not that complicated, plans within plans? this so called plan is nothing of the sort.

I stand by my earlier statement that this plan was beyond foolish the way you present it because it depends on jabba's actions.

If jabba had just decided to cut off Leia's head for trying to rescue Han right then and there i guess that too would have been part of the plan?

The truth is this, lucas was god over that scene controled all the characters and wrote a good exciting action sequence to rescue han, nothing more nothing less.

I do not beleive for a second that he looked at it from a tactical point of view based on how luke and company would see this mission and wrote this as a plan that would be executed that way, simply put they were winging it because they could the out come was predetermined.

 

No, because, as we saw in both TPM and ROTJ, one of Jabba's weaknesses is an eye for humanoid females. Lando would've confirmed this and it would've been factored into the plan. I'm sure they knew it would mean Leia would have to go far above and beyond the call of duty, if necessary, but she'd have done it for Han's sake.

Again, if you know someone's character, you don't have to predict how they'll act. You'll tailor your plan so they'll end up reacting the way you want them to. Palpatine did the same thing in the PT.

 

Yeah, this one's pretty easy;
they were gonna sneak him oughta there in the middle of the night.
Jabba saw right through it. Jabba just let them get their hopes up and played along with them, he's cruel like that.

So while it didn't turn out well for Jabba, I understood his way of thinking and why things happened the way they did.

 

the difference between this scene and the DS1 escape in ANH is big. in ANH, it was a spur of the moment escape attempt that almost got them killed. in rots, it seemed like they were hatching the plan for months. and that was the best they could come up with?! it all seemed to fall apart when luke's mind trick failed to work on jabba. they didnt know that going in? or the trapdoor?

so you say THAT was the plan? luke certainly looked terrified in the rancor pit. that didnt seem part of any plan.

yeah, they were winging it after luke got captured. the only smart thing they did was hiding luke's saber in R2. but i think he meant to use it in the palace, not on the barge.

 

Agreed whole heartedly. I mentioned something about the Rancor in my post (I think) and I would say that the proof of this Master plan is right there. Any plan that has "I'll be tossed into a Rancor's Den and figure out a way to kill it." is NOT a sound plan.

Carnage

 

All I know is Luke and his crew accomplished their mission without any of them dying in the process, and we are just speculating on how we think the plan went by going on what information we have available. None of us can say how deep Lucas went into setting this scenario, so we are all grasping straws.

 

No need to grasp at straws.
Really.
Their initial plan didn't work.
They had somewhat of a backup plan but still had to improvise.
It's really simple.

 

I'm slightly amazed by that comment.

What amazes me is that you don't seem to understand that the success of EVERY con depends to some degree on predicting the actions of the intended target. Even when con men target little old ladies over the phone, their success depends on the actions of the little old ladies.

Even when the target is as predictable as Jabba, a good con still has some flexibility to take into account the possibility of the 'rube' doing something other than what is expected. While no one could possibly plan for every possible scenario, I think it's likely that Luke was prepared for things to go more than one way.

Just because you saw the events play out the way that they did, that doesn't mean that is the only way the heroes were prepared for them to play out.

Again with the 'what ifs'.

Vader tested the carbon-freezing unit on Han because he was planning to use it on Luke...but what if Han surviving was a fluke? Wouldn't it make sense to test it on several subjects before using it on Luke?

On Endor, Luke surrendered himself to the Imperials...but what if they had decided to kill their prisoner? Wouldn't it make more sense to contact Vader directly and arrange to meet him?

Luke chose a dimly lit catwalk in high in the trees as the place to deliver to the devastating news that Vader was Leia's father. What if she had recoiled and toppled backwards over the rail? Wouldn't it make more sense to choose a less precarious location in which to deliver such shocking information? (On a side note, maybe I should complain about the handrails in the Ewok village accommodating human height rather than Ewok height. What's up with that?)

The truth is this:

The rescue of Han Solo is set up like a con...

...and plays out like a con...

...because it is a con.

Look at any other film that involves a con. As a rule, the more far-out the con, the more entertaining it is.

Perhaps you would prefer if Lucas had written a tactically sound scenario like a straight exchange of payment for the release of the prisoner. Doesn't sound much like STAR WARS to me.

I'm not sure what your aim is. You want to say that THE BIG CON being played out in this story isn't tactically sound?

In a FANTASY film, how tactically sound do you want it to be?

 

The point is simple, but it seems i can't relate it.

George did not write that series from the stand point of "what plan would luke come up with to rescue han?"

He never even considered that.

He wrote a series of successful events that did not include that kind of factor, he saved that for palpantine's plans in the PT.

You can slap all the "what if's" you want at palpantine's plans in the PT and the only place it falls appart that i have been able to find is if dooku is captured at the end of AotC or if Anakin doesn't kill him.

The only two places he can fail are there and i am willing to bet there was a contingency for that which we never saw, Palpantine's plans are writen that way unlike this plan.

This plan is more like the chase sequence in Raiders of the Lost Ark and a lot less like Palpantine's schemes.

If you are going to defend this as a plan luke would actually come up with then considering the "what if's" is a natural part of it.

If you are going to continue to dismiss the things Luke would consider when comming up with a plan then i do not see how you can possibly defend this so called plan.

 

The key words being "seemed to".

Luke attempted the mind trick. It was worth trying. If Luke is claiming to be a Jedi, the mind trick is something that he might be expected to try. By trying and failing, Jabba is encouraged to underestimate Luke's capabilities.

Re: the trap door - remember that Lando had already infiltrated the palace. Don't you think he would have tipped Luke off to it?

I don't think he looked terrified. I think he looked intense, as if he knew the Rancor was dangerous and that his survival wasn't guaranteed.

Consider this - by allowing himself to be dropped through the trap door he would have one Rancor to deal with. The alternative would be trying to take on every guard in the throne room.

Also, if Jabba makes a habit of feeding his enemies to the Rancor and the Sarlacc, and the Rancor is eliminated, it's not much of a stretch to predict that he'll want to feed them to the Sarlacc.

So if you were Luke and you wanted to get everyone out to the Sarlacc Pit, how would you eliminate the Rancor, except by getting yourself thrown into the Rancor Pit?

All you're demonstrating is that the plan fooled you too.

 

I agree about the point him being intense against the Rancor, however there is no on screen evidence that they had any idea what to expect, to be honest i don't see a point to discussing this now.

I have a lot of respect for your oppinion but in this case i think you're opperating on blind faith and giving credit where it is not due. I enjoy the sequence for what it is and really like it, but I think you see a lot more there than i do. If that is what it take for you to enjoy it so be it, I like it better with what i see which is this:

The entire plan was to infiltrate the palace, set up several different contingent options on what to do and from there make up the plan as they went along.

There is a certain logic and appeal to seeing it that way because it shows the confidence Luke now has in his abilities, it shows his growth since he was so badly defeated at the end of ESB.

There is no compelling evidence at all for the contention that there were "plans within plans", this is an oppinion, just as my take on it is an oppinion.

We differ and that is a fine thing because we do all enjoy this part of the film.