What was the point of Anakin Force Choking Padme?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by TragicHeroLover132, May 21, 2011.

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  1. TragicHeroLover132 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2010
    star 3
    What was the point of Anakin Force choking Padme? If the Force choke didn't kill Padme, why was it kept in? Couldn't have Anakin just Force Choked Obi Wan rather than Padme, while Padme escaped and the Duel started?
  2. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Self fulfilling prophecy? Destroying the very thing he was trying to save? To show just how far gone he was?

    You could say that the Force choke did kill Padme. You could say that it was that final act of violence toward her that caused her to lose the will to live.

    If Padme escapes unharmed and ends up dying just because Anakin did bad things that would be seriously weak, even weaker than it was.

    I know you're a big fan of their relationship, but they needed to show just how far Anakin had fallen, that he would even hurt the one thing he was trying to save.
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I've always wondered why that was put in there in the first place, but here are my best guesses:

    Same reason he had the youngling slaughter happen: to show how far downhill Anakin had gone ("Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny") and to show that evil isn't cool. I don't think that Lucas ever intended for Darth Vader to be a likeable "cool badass", just evil, and to show that, Anakin had to do something that nobody could rightfully label as "cool" or "badass." Simply killing the adult Jedi could be labelled as "cool" or "badass."

    On Padme specifically, it was to show that Anakin had gone completely bat**** insane. He was paranoid and he snapped. The fact that it was so out of character for him to attack Padme that way, shows exactly how far he had gone.
  4. TragicHeroLover132 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2010
    star 3
    Yes, but for some people, the Force Choke didn't show how far gone he was---because of the Force Choke, Anakin is labelled a spouse abuser. And domestic abuse is an ongoing pattern of behavior, so when people call him abusive, that would mean that he was beating her, verbally abusing her, forcing her to quit her job, and stopping her from associating with her friends and other loved ones. I know he didn't do any of things, and it is bothersome if Vader Force Choking Padme once is enough evidence for people to believe that he was secretly abusing her.
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Ignore it. Not a thing in the world you can do about people making up their own behind-the-scenes moments.
  6. TragicHeroLover132 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2010
    star 3
    Yeah...I guess I should. But one thing I wonder is why Anakin didn't notice how surprised Padme was. If he had noticed that, he would know that she wasn't on the "kill Anakin" plot.
  7. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    I've never once heard anyone suggest that Anakin abused her before that scene.

    Not all us "Anakin bashers" as people like to call fans who can see his flaws, like to call us, have to make things up to state what he did WAS abusive, whether he did it once, or a hundred times.

  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Anakin wasn't noticing anything at the moment other than his own angry paranoid delusions. If he had used .2 nanoseconds of rational thought--if he had been capable of doing so at that poing, which is highly debatable--he would have never gotten angry in the first place, not at Padme anyway. He's been on enough missions with Obi-Wan to know that Obi-Wan knew how to stow aboard a ship. It should not have been hard to deduce that in all likelihood, Padme did not know he was there.

    But, there was absolutely nothing rational about the way Anakin's brain was working in probably the last half of ROTS, particularly in that scene.

    That's hardly fair, as the implication is that those of us who call ourselves Anakin fans, think he is perfect. I don't know any Anakin fans who can't "see his flaws."
  9. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    by that token it's unfair to call people "bashers" because they think what Anakin did was decidely uncool,

    if someone killed my mother, I wouldn't be happy, granted, but I wouldn't go out slaughtering a whole race of people over it. Regardless of how mad I was, and I'm no saint either so don't want to come across as righteous.

    Same thing if my wife peeved me off, I wouldn't even dream of laying a finger (or the force) on her,

  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I have no interest whatsoever in addressing the Tusken slaughter again.

    I'm not going to throw around labels, "basher" or "gusher" or whatever, I think it's a waste of time. But I think you've hit on something here. For those of us who believe that Anakin's story is intended as an example of what could happen to any of us, the righteousness of some posts comes off as, well, self-righteous. (Not specifically addressing yours.)

    I like to think that I would never allow myself to be controlled by fear or anger in the situations that Anakin was placed in, but I will never be placed in those situations and I have no idea how I would act. I have never been a slave, and I have never had nor will I ever have a Sith Lord messing with my mind. So while what Anakin did was wrong--and I have never seen anyone argue otherwise--a discussion of why he did it is much more productive and interesting than throwing around the Insult of the Week. And include "basher" in that last category if it suits you.
  11. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    That's a strawman. Although Anakin himself may have a certain "cool" (all those action figures don't lie), no-one, to the best of my knowledge, claims that all his actions are necessarily so.

    1) Anakin didn't slaughter a race of people; he killed a village/tribe. I suppose it depends on how strict you feel like being with your definition of "race".

    2) "Someone" didn't "kill" his mother. A group of nomads -- putatively, savages -- abducted and tortured her. And Anakin dreamt of his mother for weeks, feeling something was wrong.

    3) Anakin was being kept in check by his service to an order of warrior-monks; passive-aggressive nutjobs to some. This circumstance alone created a torn psyche. In addition, while pursuing the girl of his dreams (literally), he got rebuffed. Dashed hopes.

    4) The intimation Anakin had, and probably kept himself sane with, was the idea that he would go back and free his mother one day. Turns out someone else freed her; and she then wound up getting captured by a group of remote, animal-like, pillaging strangers.

    In short, someone was going to pay for his frustrations and his incredulity at losing his mother -- and why wouldn't it be the very people who were responsible for bringing her life to an end?

    That's very noble and reassuring 'n' everything, but you're not Anakin. Anakin went to the DARK SIDE of a mystical energy field for his love (well, ostensibly) -- and THAT was how she repaid him; by apparently bringing his former best friend and father figure to MURDER him?

    * * *

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't think some people really understand this story at all.
  12. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    fair enough, I see your points

    but it's wrong to say that Anakin WASN'T abusive, as some seem to suggest on these forums, which is mind boggling to say the least.

    And the "only did it once" thing is no excuse either.


    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't think some people really understand this story at all.

    because my perception is different than yours?

    [face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh]

    classic stuff

  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'm not really interested in having a "He's abusive!" "No he's not!" ping-pong match either. That's the problem with labels, it's difficult to have a discussion around them, and it doesn't really address the scene in question. The purpose seems to try to change people's perception of it by throwing a label in their faces, which is hardly effective.

    I think a discussion on whether he would have begun abusing Padme on a regular basis had they both survived Mustafar could be an interesting one but it would be based almost entirely on speculation, and not everyone likes to delve into "what if?" scenarios as much as I do.

    I can't speak for Cryo, but I'm going to guess that statement comes from the idea that some people seem to want to put Anakin in a box with a label on it when his character is nowhere near that simple. (If it were, my user name would be very different. Simple one-dimensional characters are mind-bogglingly boring.)
  14. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    well it's interesting you say that about one dimensional characters, from past posts you seem to suggest that Palpatine is just that, and as such don't like him.

  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Um, yeah. That's my point. Palpatine is one-dimensional, therefore I don't like him. What's the issue?

    And bringing up "past posts" into the thread seems to be going off topic and toeing the line of a personal attack.
  16. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    Our point, for I agree with Sistros on Palpy, is that not everyone shares that perception.
  17. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    The Force choke, like others have said, is meant to exemplify how far Anakin has fallen and how twisted he has become -- allowing lust for power to consume him and destroy his ability to control his anger. It's not just Padme either. Both R2 and Obi-Wan are used to demonstrate this fact.

    Notice how the way he tells R2 to stay with the ship changes drastically from the beginning of ROTS to the end. In the Invisible Hand, he addresses R2 as a friend and even defends him as he tries to get the elevator working. By the time we've reached Mustafar, though, R2 is treated more like a tool, to the point that C3P0 even remarked (before) that Anakin was under a lot of stress, as though R2 was worried about his behavior.

    As for Obi-Wan, we go from this:

    [image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/nl/images/0/0f/Anakin_carrying_Obi.jpg]

    to this:

    [image=http://i43.tinypic.com/ffb7zr.png]

    Strangely, no one ever suggests that Anakin has been abusing Obi-Wan though...
  18. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5

    I think his character is that simple and was portrayed as such. Opinions vary.
  19. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    uhmm how? :confused:


    and no Palpatine is not a one dimensional character to me, just as Anakin isn't to you.

    I could give you my reasons in a seperate thread if you want.

  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Because this thread is not about me or my posting history, and should not become as such. It's not about Palpatine either, at least not directly.


    I would gladly read such a thread.
  21. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5

    Something she would never want him to do. The actions he took to attempt to save her would be intolerable to Padme, those actions betrayed her love for him and their relationship.



    This would make a lot of sense, if it was at all true.

    I know, I know, point of view. Well, it's Anakin's fault he was an idiot, he wasn't thinking and didn't realize his point of view was inaccurate.




  22. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    @ Anakinfansince1983: that still doesn't explain why that was a personal attack but ok, I was just being observational :p

    I'll write a thread when I have a lot of time to make sense on the subject ;)
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Fair enough, "attack" was a bit harsh. I'm actually not at all offended, but that post did seem to steer the thread in the direction of dissecting my personal perceptions of Star Wars characters rather than the topic at hand.

    Carry on. [face_peace]
  24. Daft-Vader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2008
    star 8
    The whole point was ti show how far Anakin had fallen, as people have pointed out

    he was so filled with hatred and anger by this point

    as he says himself,
    Padme wasn't "with" him, so she was his enemy too...
  25. TragicHeroLover132 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2010
    star 3
    Nobody said it was abusive before the choke. It's just that when you say he was abusive, I think that there would have to more than one instance of harm for Anakin's relationship with Padme to be abusive. So, you made it sound like you were saying he was abusive to her in general, even before he fell to the Dark Side.

    Also, PiettsHat, you are right on target when you wondered why people didn't claim Anakin/Vader was abusing Obi Wan. I mean, he choked Obi Wan too---and worse yet, it was a physical choke. He slapped and threatened Obi Wan as well. Then poor R2D2 was dragged around against his will.
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