What was TPM's biggest drawback?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by sdj, Mar 3, 2002.

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What was TPM's biggest drawback?

Poll closed Mar 22, 2012.
Took too long to come out and gave people too much time to form their own ideas of how it should be 35 vote(s) 18.5%
Jar Jar's antics 15 vote(s) 7.9%
Jake Lloyd's acting 9 vote(s) 4.8%
Midichlorians 5 vote(s) 2.6%
The overuse of CG 2 vote(s) 1.1%
Not enough Obi Wan 13 vote(s) 6.9%
Not enough Darth Maul 8 vote(s) 4.2%
Other (Please Specify) 17 vote(s) 9.0%
Several of these (Which Ones) 43 vote(s) 22.8%
Nothing 42 vote(s) 22.2%
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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    The prohpecy -does- come true when Anakin destorys the Sith. What, did you want Lucas to hit you over the head with a 2 by 4 about it? You can't just close your eyes and pretend the prophecy is irrelevant to the classic trilogy. Becuase anyone with a pair of eyes can see how it finally comes true in ROTJ.

    You still have yet to explain to me how Lucas is changing the story of the classic trilogy. To me, the prequels fit right in with what went down in IV, V and VI.
  2. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Well, Go-Mer, the last time I checked the prophecy speaks of "one who will bring balance to the force". I'm taking the films as being canon here, not interviews or fan guesses. You might believe the prophecy plays a part in the OT, but others may see things differently.

    There's a phrase that comes to mind, something about seeing things from a certain point of view, and how many of the things we believe to be true depend on this.

    On topic, I voted for "several of these", "these" being JJ antics, JL acting, midi's, and not enough OB1/DM. I'd also add flat dialogue, dull action setpieces and Natalie P's acting to that list.
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Explain to me how Anakin destroying the Sith does not play into the Prophecy then.

    From your point of view.
  4. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Explain to me how Anakin destroying the Sith does not play into the Prophecy then.

    Thread title: What was TPM's biggest drawback?

    If you want to start a new thread to discuss the prophecy mentioned in TPM and how it relates to the OT then I'd be happy to discuss it there. I'm sure others would too. Lets try not to derail this thread, ok?
  5. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Nice sidestep. This thread is about actual drawbacks, and I am questioning the validity of the assertion that the prophecy of the chosen one has nothing to do with the classic trilogy what so ever.
  6. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    I'm not side stepping your question, Go-Mer. If you want to question the validity of someones interpretation of the propechy then create a thread in which you can do that, rather then trying to hijack this one.

    This thread is for people to come and express what they thought was the biggest drawback in TPM. It is not a "Go-Mer debate thread". You want me to discuss the prophecy with you? Then go and make a thread on the prophecy.

    On topic, I think that, for the sake of greater accuracy, the greatest single drawback in TPM was the script. Even some of the better actors in TPM just couldn't make it work.
  7. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    So in other words, you will not be responding to my legitimate question? My "debate" thread was closed under the assumption that I could debate in any thread aside from the Basher's Sanctuary. What I asked you is relevant to this discussion. If someone told me the biggest drawback of TPM was that Anakin was played by a girl, I would question that as well.
  8. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    So in other words, you will not be responding to my legitimate question?

    !!!!!???????!!!!

    If you want to start a new thread to discuss the prophecy mentioned in TPM and how it relates to the OT then I'd be happy to discuss it there.


    AND


    You want me to discuss the prophecy with you? Then go and make a thread on the prophecy.


  9. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    A simple answer would have done. If anyone has derailed things here, you have.

  10. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    This: Took too long to come out and gave people too much time to form their own ideas of how it should be
  11. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
  12. Nrf-Hrdr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2000
    star 4
    Ah, these boards just haven't been the same without sdj's near-endless stream of hilariously unsubtle bait/troll threads.
  13. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    Obi Wan never "took it upon himself" to train Anakin... he had that duty thrust upon him by his dying master. There's a big difference there.

    I also never saw Obi Wan acting "amazed at how strongly the Force was with Anakin" in TPM before he agreed to train the boy. If anything, he was more appalled than amazed.

    It's like trying to match plaids with stripes...
  14. Ultimate Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2000
    star 3
    Qui-Gon didn't make Kenobi train Anakin, he only asked him. Obi-Wan made the decision himself to go forward. He also reacted in a pretty amazed way when he saw the midiclorian count. If he didn't think the kid had some potential he wouldn't have gone forward and trained him, willing to go against the council.
  15. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Obi-Wan: "Over 20 thousand... That's higher than Master Yoda."

    Obi-Wan: "I will train him. Without the council's permission if I must".

    This all matches if you leave out your ancillary assumptions surrounding the actual quotes from the classic trilogy.
  16. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    He did take it upon himslef to train Anakin. He was goign to do it without the councils approval. Though he did promise his dying master. But he did take it upon himself to train him. Lets not get picky people. Not everything is going to be verbadom
  17. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    He AGREED to when the man who was for all intents and purposes his father pressured him into it as he was dying. Agreeing under duress to do something which one has up until that point vocally opposed is NOT the same as "taking it upon oneself" to do it.

    And come on... midichlorian counts? I thought that most gushers were of the opinion that midichlorians aren't the Force. Now suddenly Obi Wan's puzzlement at Anakin's high midichlorian count translates as being "amazed at how strongly the Force was with him"?

    Oy! Make up me mind already! ;)
  18. WSBurroughs Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    So, in your own words; if you leave out refrences to the OT, the PT connects? hmmmm...(rubs chin and ponders the logic...)
  19. Ultimate Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2000
    star 3
    Oh, so Qui-Gon forced him to do it through some sort of Jedi voodoo and Obi-Wan made absolutely no conscious decision to train Anakin.
  20. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I am saying they connect because the prequels do not omit these things, they are there plain as day.
  21. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    It's kind of like becoming a priest because your mother made you promise to become one while she was on her death bed, and then later claiming that you became a priest because you felt drawn to the priesthood.

    Remember, Obi Wan wanted nothing to do with Anakin's training until his "father", with his dying breath, wrung a promise out of Obi Wan to train the boy.

    There's no voodoo involved... it's called a parent (or in this case, a surrogate parent) forcing their child to make a deathbed promise. It happens all the time.

    It is, however, very different from the independent decision to "take upon oneself" an action or a duty.

  22. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Where did Obi-Wan say his descision to train Anakin was an independent decision?

    Oh that's right, he -didn't- say that.

    He -did- take it upon himself to train the boy. Anything else you are expecting comes from your inaccurate assumptions based on what little was actually said in the classic trilogy.
  23. Ultimate Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2000
    star 3
    Why do I think we're going to hear yet even more complaints about Lucas being a moron who can't remember his own films unless Bail Organa says "Thank you General Obi-Wan Kenobi, for serving under me during these Clone Wars." in Episode 3.

    Maybe the TPM scene needed Kenobi saying "Master Yoda I am taking it upon myself to train Anakin Skywalker, who's Force potential I am amazed at, because I think I could train him as well as you, the Jedi Master named Yoda. To recap: taking it upon myself, amazed, Yoda." Because obviously showing him take it upon himself to spend a decade training Anakin and risking openly defying the Council wasn't enough.

    How exactly was Obi-Wan forced to do anything? He was asked, and he dicided to do it. He still made the decision, it wasn't forced upon him.
  24. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    All that is "plain as day" is that Obi-Wan ended up training Anakin. IMHO, the motivations as presented in TPM do not gel with the motivations presented in ANH. Obi-Wan is passive in TPM, active in ANH - he is asked vs. he chose to act.

    And let's cut the condescencion on both sides of this issue.
  25. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Well it would seem to me that in TPM he not only is asked to train Anakin, he chooses to train Anakin. I certianly wouldn't call defying the council as "passive".

    In the classic trilogy he says he took it upon himself to train Anakin, which he did.

    The thing that you guys say is all different now with TPM is that Obi-Wan was asked to do it. It's not like there was anything in the classic trilogy that precludes this, so therefore the only thing being contradicted is the ASSUMPTION that he did it without being asked.

    I can see making the assumption, but that doesn't mean it was the right assumption, and to act like Lucas should have created the story just the way you ASSUMED it would be is pretty selfish IMHO.

    I can see wanting it to be the way you assumed, but to accuse Lucas of changing everything around on you is pretty self absorbed in my opinion.
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