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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT What will this new ST Generation think of the Prequels?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by gambit420, May 3, 2014.

  1. gambit420

    gambit420 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2003
    Almost every news article I read about the Episode VII hype bashes the Prequels in some way while praising the OT. Even Disney themselves heavily reference the OT in their misc. promotions, the exception being the new TPM app, all while mostly ignoring the Prequels. I'm wondering if this continue indefinitely especially if the ST is regarded as being better than the prequels. When you watch a movie that has gotten a bad reputation, ie Godzilla '98 or Superman Returns, it makes it harder to subconciously like it. What influence will the media's repeated disdain for the Prequels have for people just getting into Star Wars? Especially if Disney downplays their importance?

    Just today from two writers at the Guardian:

    Do we need another Star Wars trilogy? Oh, definitely. As a gesture from Lucasfilm, to help rinse off the memory of the last trilogy. Dress up a troupe of amateurs in dressing gowns and bin liners and have them swing poster-tubes at each other for 300 minutes and still it would be hard to outdo the wretchedness of those movies (released in 1999, 2002 and 2005).

    I'm with you on the wretchedness of the last three Star Wars films – or the first three, as Lucas's half-hearted renumbering of the series would have us refer to them.
     
    ObiWanKnowsMe and CoolyFett like this.
  2. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    It frustrates me every time someone is insulting SW. I'm fine with someone saying "I personally dislike this movie" but people trying to state it as an absolute in addition to needlessly insulting it with words like "wretched" is just asinine.

    The story outline was written by GL himself. I'm sure we'll be fine. Pretty sure Abrams said in an interview that he'll style it as a mix of PT and OT styles, as he doesn't want to alienate fans of either/both
     
  3. Dameron

    Dameron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2014
    I would think they will find the prequels too slow, with too much time dawdling in small corners of the plot. In much the same way that Star Trek '09 is a lot faster than an original series episode, I would expect the ST to be our fastest-paced Star Wars, with only small glances away from high-pressure, fate-of-the-galaxy matters. I think the time between R2's introduction and the podrace, or the long stretch of AOTC that's spent alternating between Obi-Wan the detective and Anakin the smooth-talker, are going to seem eye-rollingly slow. As for ROTS, while I consider it the best of the prequels by a long shot, I do think Generation ST will probably still find Anakin's turn too slow rather than too fast.
     
  4. Samnz

    Samnz Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    We don't know.
    Personally, I don't think the ST will influence the next generation significantly.

    I also don't think "media coverage" like this has an effect on people who are not weak-minded and easily influenced.
    Ever since I've known Star Wars with interest, ridiculously emotional and subjective articles like this have been published and they haven't negatively influenced my opinion on the Prequels a bit. If anything, half-way decently written articles with actual arguments (contrary to the linked Guardian thing) have made me look closer and more critical on all of the six films and - in most of the case - that closer examination only strenghtened my opinion, hardening it with deeper understanding and knowledge.

    Regardless, I wouldn't even say that there is a real "ST generation". There is also no "PT generation". I'd say there is a "OT generation", a "OT/PT generation" and now there will be an "OT/PT/ST generation". It will probably only become better when more and more people start to accept diversity in an around Star Wars.
    Hopefully I'm not expecting too much....
     
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  5. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    the prequels are great and i'm a 36 year old saying it. they're just not the same. people want more of the same thing they had as kids but that's not what the pt is.
     
  6. banthatracks74

    banthatracks74 Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2013
    The perception of the prequels is utterly baffling to me. I can only assume that people who write articles like the one in The Guardian have no sense of history, art or culture. The prequels are a pure, honest and heartfelt continuation of the Star Wars saga. People who complain about the acting, Anakin/Padme's romance and other elements of the prequels have completely failed to understand Lucas' intentions behind making the films. I just can't be bothered to argue with anyone about it anymore, you either understand the intention of the artist or you don't. Turning the saga over to a corporate stooge like Abrams, whose films are completely lacking in any kind of understanding of history, art and culture, empty disposable films with nothing to return to for repeat viewings, no sense of cinema history or exciting use of form... this is perhaps the worst thing that could ever happen to Star Wars. Taking George Lucas out of Star Wars means it isn't Star Wars anymore, just another vapid Hollywood product to be consumed and discarded. I haven't heard Abrams say one interesting thing in interviews, whereas with Lucas I could sit and listen to him talk for hours about his use of cinematic form, his love of Kurosawa, his interest in athropology and mythology. What are JJ Abrams' interests? Beyond the summer blockbusters he loved growing up? The best artists speak to us about the human condition, as Lucas did. Abrams has nothing to say. Nor do his films.
     
  7. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    "Half-hearted renumbering"? What a load of bovine feces.
     
  8. LordThanatos

    LordThanatos Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 18, 2013
    What? I found the originals to be "slow" compared to the prequels.
     
  9. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    By that logic then forget about any of them bothering at all with the OT which is beyond slow and at a virtual standstill in comparison.

    So very much unlike the previous 6 films then.

    Not as slow as a brief flurry of action at the start of EPIV and then other than a couple of quick hits pretty much nothing for well over an hour until the escape from the detention area.

    If these movies are nothing but action set piece after action set piece held together by a few threads of story then they really won't be much of a continuation of what Star Wars movies are.

    That description doesn't fit any of the Star Wars films as a whole.

    What I don't understand about this new generation nonsense is that didn't we get a new generation already with the PT and then another one with the Clone Wars? CW only just finished so certainly there is going to be a lot of crossover for all those young fans who will now go to Rebels then the new movies and by the way this isn't the old days anymore.

    People can actually gasp! watch the original films.

    If the people in charge are unimaginative enough to think that lots of fans were not created by the PT and CW then they are much dumber than I could possibly imagine.

    If anything the way things are being done indicates that they know that there already is a generation of fans from the PT era and so they want to introduce the OT era to those who haven't really been exposed to it in a major way as it was not the focus of Star Wars for a long time.
     
  10. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    20 years from now, movies will be over in 5 minutes. Movies are just too slow for people
     
  11. Dameron

    Dameron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2014
    I wasn't trying to start an OT vs PT bashing thread; I just thought it was self-evident that the prequels went slower than the originals. It's fascinating to me that there's so much subjectivity in how we perceive the pacing of a movie. Guess it's the ol' points of view rearing their ugly heads again. No need to jump to the prequels' defense on my account!

    EDIT: By coincidence, I just ran into this on an unrelated thread.

    See, I thought this was just the commonly held opinion.
     
  12. Carrie Walsh

    Carrie Walsh Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2014
    It's always been my opinion that if you can't appreciate the entire series, including the prequels, then you aren't a true Star Wars fan. I've loved the prequels since I first saw them, and I was completely unaware that they were getting this degree of hate until I saw the RedLetterMedia reviews on Youtube. I think what happened is that the Star Wars community experienced a kind of "bandwagon effect." I don't think people really believed the prequels were as bad as they made them out to be. It just became the popular opinion to dislike anything post-RotJ, and if you had any other opinion then you were stupid and had terrible taste in movies.

    Lately, it seems like we've gotten somewhat back on track, with the prequels having a lot more support than they did a few years ago. I don't think new fans who see the series for the first time in chronological order (like I did) will have a problem with the newer stuff. I'm sure OT fanboys will never get enough of Lucas bashing, but I think the newer fans will be able to enjoy the saga as a whole, 1--9.
     
  13. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    I actually see your point. The Prequels tend to have a build up in the first 1/2 of the movie (ROTS is a bit of an exception) compared with the OT. But when the PT enters the endgame it puts all of its gears in motion, and as far as action movies go, the results are jaw-dropping.
     
  14. Darth Xalfrea

    Darth Xalfrea Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2013
    I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that the current and future generations will find the good of the prequels and, like so many cases of media, the prequels will become less hated overtime.

    But doubtful. As long as there are Big Bang Theories, Red Letter Medias, and other mediums out there that'll continue to preach "Thou shalt hate the prequels because we say so", the future will be uneducated and brainwashed on this matter.
     
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  15. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    Gusher Manifesto/Litmus Test 101.


    "No one genuinely believed the prequels were bad prior to RedLetterMedia".........[​IMG]
     
  16. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    Gusher Manifesto/Litmus Test 101.


    "No one genuinely believed the prequels were bad prior to RedLetterMedia".......

    .[​IMG]



    edit to add:



    "Failure has a thousand explanations*...success DOESN'T NEED ONE." - Alec Guinness

    * "you don't understand the intent of Lucas", etc.
     
  17. Carrie Walsh

    Carrie Walsh Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2014

    Very mature. If you could show me evidence to the contrary, that would be more effective. :)
     
  18. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    It's YOUR claim that "no one disliked the prequels prior to RLM", and even so, no one "really" dislikes it. The burden of proof is on YOU to back up your statement.
     
  19. Carrie Walsh

    Carrie Walsh Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2014
    I've already explained my reasoning. You're the one who doesn't seem to be capable of composing a mature argument. On top of that, almost every initial fan reaction I've seen coming out of the theater has been positive, all before the internet and Youtube and, yes, RedLetterMedia:




    Now it's your turn, buddy. Or you can just continue making a fool of yourself. That works too. ;)
     
  20. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    This is what you call a 'mature' argument:

    "It's always been my opinion that if you can't appreciate the entire series, including the prequels, then you aren't a true Star Wars fan."

    or

    "I'm sure OT fanboys will never get enough of Lucas bashing"


    And what you call your 'reasoning' or 'explanation' here:

    "I think what happened is that the Star Wars community experienced a kind of "bandwagon effect." I don't think people really believed the prequels were as bad as they made them out to be. It just became the popular opinion to dislike anything post-RotJ, and if you had any other opinion then you were stupid and had terrible taste in movies."

    ....you try to pass off as fact.


    Showing that people liked the films when they first came out - which people did - is not proof that NO ONE disliked it initially (and that RLM somehow 'duped' them into it). :oops: You might as well argue that RLM was responsible for duping those fans who dislike ROTJ, too. [face_laugh]
     
  21. Carrie Walsh

    Carrie Walsh Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2014

    Cool. Now tell me where I said that NO ONE disliked the prequels? In fact, from what I can see, I enforced nothing other than the fact that the majority of Star Wars fans DISLIKE the prequels. Do I think RedLetterMedia had a huge role to play in that? Yes. Initial reactions are as good a validation as any that the prequels were satisfying before people like RedLetterMedia were able to point out flaws and spread hate easily through the internet, and it's certainly more evidence than you've provided for your case. If the OT was the target of so much hate, the same kind of flaws RedLetterMedia isolates from the PT could just as easily be pointed out in those movies.

    Also, you need to learn the difference between stating an opinion (which is what you're drawing my quotes from, hence: It has always been my opinion...) and forming an argument.
     
  22. LordThanatos

    LordThanatos Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 18, 2013
    I was totally unaware of any hatred for the prequels until.. I think 2012, was that when the RLM videos were released?
     
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    TOSCHESTATION , you nailed it.

    Bloody hell. I don't even hate the prequels but I find most of the talking points in defense of them embarrassing.

    Between artistic snobbery, disdain for people who might actually like "blockbuster films" (i.e. the implication that people who like them are just not refined enough to appreciate the caviar-laden Haute Couture that is the PT--and you all do know that caviar are fish eggs, right?), commentary on poor little misunderstood Lucas, and statements that people who dislike the prequels are too "immature" or stupid to think for themselves...I don't want to be associated with the defense of these films. I don't ever want to be associated with the idea that wanting to spend one's entertainment dollars on a film that entertains--yes, a film that does nothing but entertain--is "wrong."

    And if trashing The Big Bang Theory is "right" or "mature"...I'd rather be "wrong" and immature, kthxby. I'll watch every season of The Big Bang Theory a hundred times (and I do have them on DVD) before I'll rewatch ROTS.

    As far as the ST: give me pure entertainment. Give me a story. Give me humor. Give me a story and humor, like the best movies of the 80s.

    Don't give me pretentious bull**** that smells like fish eggs and then try to tell me I'm just too stupid to "get it" if I say it wasn't entertaining.
     
  24. AussieRebel

    AussieRebel Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 2, 2005

    Sigh. I stumbled on that article just before I saw your post, and I had the same reaction. Apparently (some) people on the internet are really incapable on thinking for themselves, and insist on peddling the 'acceptable' opinion. To be quite frank, I think much of this boils down to the human psychological tendency toward groupthink. Once some particular position becomes entrenched within a group, it becomes difficult for alternative opinions to even be expressed without constant ridicule.

    This is not to imply that those who find fault in the prequels are wrong; merely to say that liking or enjoying the prequels has become anathema in mainstream circles.

    Nevertheless, I love the prequels, and I'm not going to apologize for that.

    Living in Australia I had the great opportunity to attend the May the Fourth Star Wars marathon yestereve. What an experience! A packed cinema, enthused crouds, a sense of shared purpose...this is what being a Star Wars fan is all about right...?

    Well, that is, until the end of Episode VI, and a sizeable number of audience members boo the entirely innocuous introduction of Hayden Christensen as a force ghost. End of the film, just ruined by jeers and upset fanboys. Do I sound bitter? Yeah...I am. We know you hate it, we know, we've been told, over and over again how terrible it is. But we've known since 2004! Get over it! [End rant].

    Anyway, all this is to point out that prequel hate (and no, I don't think that's hyperbole) is alive and well in the fan community and it continually rears its ugly head. A screening of the ORIGINAL TRILOGY can't even escape it. At the same time, I couldn't really escape the feeling that these films aren't as great as they're often made out to be. Sure, perhaps I'm just completely used to them by now, but I think my reaction to the experience of engaging them cinematically is no fluke. I just...got...bored...especially in RoTJ. Empire retains its power thanks to the strong script, gorgeously composited visuals (the asteroid field and Cloud City) and a general sense of awe and wonder. The trench run at the end of ANH was the only part I found myself really engaged in that film (though I still believe it serves as an excellent starting point for Wars n00bs). Luke's journey retains its mythic resonance. But the rest of it, the other characters? The droids are great at first but get tiresome by RoTJ. Han? What a misogynistic prick! I've seen others bring up this point, but I'll reiterate it here. I don't like the Han/Leia stuff in ESB. He continually disrespects Leia's personal space and more or less forces himself on here. Moreover, the script (and Kershner's direction) implore the audience to laugh at Leia's stubbornness. If only the silly princess would take her rightful place at the side of the hypermasculine rogue! Yes, those sequences retain their humor to an extent, but I found myself troubled by them as I hadn't before. In any case, none of this is to say that the PT constitutes a worthy trilogy in my mind because I've been having questions about the OT. Indeed not, I still love the films, but certainly I think my appreciation of the originals is...distant...compared with my love for and engagement with the PT. - and that has nothing to do with intellectual engagement (although I think Palpatine is just a fantastic villain). I simply experience more fun when watching Revenge of the Sith than I do when viewing ANH. I still think ESB is a great film (by far the best of the originals) and it along with RoTS are tied for my top two SW movies.

    Will the ST change my appreciation of the PT personally? Probably, and I can't wait to see how.


    To answer the OP's question though, I think as more and more Star Wars films are made the distinction between the original films and the 'PT' will have a tendency to dissipate in the minds of many fans. And who knows how the ST will retroactively engage fans with the PT; it might, depending of the story, even make them 'better'.!
     
  25. sharkymcshark

    sharkymcshark Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2013
    What we definitely need are more threads where people put dislike of the prequels purely down to hive mentality and people not understanding how definitely not bad they are.