FF:VIC What Words Can't Say... Bali.

Hey Well Its been around alot and it was only today I guess I saw what it had done to us here, In church today I sat behind a group of people less then twenty and for the entire mass they cried. Also I visted the flower place and too see so many people together, boy It was amazing to see how many people care in this world. I saw Strangers helping each other, and even though its nowhere near the amount that die every day world wide. Wow, it can make a nation cry. because even if you didn't know someone Killed there you would know someone who did.

Anyway, Discuss I think its worth it.

 

DJTJ, you've almost summed it up perfectly.


Most people here are familar with my anti-capitalistic stance and my rather open mind when concerned with the actual root cause of such problems; but beyond the rhetoric, beyond the politics, we find a very human dimension that is the commonality of horror we all feel.

Terrorism, by definition, is an act meant to incite terror for the purpose of racial, social, political, or religious protest.

Whilst this may be a cause we may - and I often do - sympathise with, nothing can come near from softening the appalling evil that resonants in this despicable and appalling acts of violence, murder and wanton ignorance.

I've just watched 60 minutes, that despite having its fair share of TodayTonight-type trash, can still conjure up a truly worthy piece of journalism.

Their interviews with those hurt by this disaster - of Peter Hughes who managed to speak to an interview in the hours after the blast, claiming himself to just be a bit singed, and who know fights for life with 54% burns - were moving, and really sent a cold shock of horror through your spine.

I found what is truly heart-rending about tragedy. It's not always something that affects you directly, but its the images that you see, the chilling cries of loss that echo in your soul, the pictures of your fellow man break down in tears: mourning a brother, a father, a girlfriend, a sister, a friend; a son.

This is the true torture of the average Australian. Having to watch others cry and cope with the pain, being unable to help, unable to reach out, to do something to rewind time, aide those strangers who are crying, help those injured and dead whose jubilant faces we see on the news and in the paper.


Terror in Bali: the tragedy touches home, in a way S11 couldn't. Now it is not America who cries, but fellow Australian. The blokes down the street, the local footy team, your teacher, mate, publician; figures we identify with, friends we love, faces we might just know, could of called our own.

Lest we forget; and may we all pitch in to help ease the pain of those afflicted. A kind word, a wreath, a moment of silence. This is all we can offer, but is worth all the suffering in the world.


Again, I reiterate the Australian pledge to all who have fallen in needless conflict: Lest we Forget.


EDIT: To any who work or who may have spare money that otherwise would of gone to Uncle McDonalds or Auntie Hoyts, please don't hesitate to do your bit to 'try' and help.... Even as I type I feel bloody emotional, something which has become less of a unique event post S11. 60 minutes is playing the honour roll of those dead in the blast, and it doesn't stop. Clips of families, cries of 'I'm going to have to bury my son' and 'I heard a cry of mommy, mommy, where's my mommy?' in the background.

Pledge support in any way, shape or form you can. Red Cross Donations

 

It's hard to say anything in response to that PoT... Umm, I didn't shed a tear today, not because I didn't feel sorrow, but because I felt empty about the whole affair. Such a mixture of emotions come over you when you see such horrific acts, and yet you respond with fear, anguish, anger and a frightful need for revenge, for justice.
I wont use this as a political soapbox, but we as a nation must stand together in the long term now and try to reflect on that which has happened. It is horrible, but it is the way that we react as a nation now that truly makes us great. Enough of the rhetoric of justice, there is time for that. If we can stand together as one then we are the strongest nation in the world. Today was a sad day, yet who wouldn't be proud to be Australian with such a show of strength?

 

Well said everybody.

I've a bit to add: my real concern is that the media is touting this as a strike against Australia in general - hang on a sec guys, French, German tourists died as did Balinese humbly working inside. I'm just worried that, through all this understandable desire for some form of revenge, we might forget about the others that died, and we might act irrationally (as Mr Bush is doing now). Did anyone read Phillip Adams' piece in The Australian yesterday?

 

yeah My nose is really blocked right now... I can't stopped sniffing, Visting the Morial is not good for my allergies... (Sneeze)

 

I'm still not certain that it was an attack on Australia itself, but this is perhaps not the place to discuss this. The topic sums it up perfectly - words can't adequately express the huge range of emotions the nation has been feeling this past week. Shock, despair, anger...after September 11, we all hoped it would never happen to us, but we have been shown to be vulnerable to these sorts of attacks. Even though it was not an attack on Australian soil, it has hit home with a vengeance and moved the nation. Today, we mourned those lost...tomorrow, we will avenge them.

 

My parents go there every year.

Bloody Howard.

 

Agreed All, but Lute, remember this isn't the fault of Howard, nor his stance. This would of happened anyway. We are a westernised nation, that we support America only hastened the inevitable.


But one comment does give me pause.

...tomorrow, we will avenge them.

Hawk, I respect you Bud, but I ask that you - and everyone - realises the temptation inherit in such a statement. Our natural inclination is to hunt, to violence, and when wronged, we tend to see it as our 'right' to wrong the wrongers right back again.

But as clichéd as Granny's words may be, Two wrongs don't make a right.

If we go and bomb the terrorist cells and shoot those who support them, if we relent to bloodlust, we become terrorists. We debase ourselves, become the lowest common denominator, answerable only to emotion, instinct, and primative and primal urges which leave civilised people's wanting.

Most of all, we dishonour the dead and dying. Far from avenging them, we spit on their corpses and mock their sacrifice.

Death is never a solution. Killing never justice.

Only terror, which is precisely, what we should be fighting against.

 

In order to fight a terrorist, you must first understand what he is fighting for. A terrorist is a freedom fighter in his own mind.

 

It all depends which side of the fence you are sitting. They all have causes, right or wrong to us. Remember that in Iraq every month 1000s die due to US lead trade sanctions, yet there is no monthly day of mourning for these poor innocents.
It all just depends on which side of the fence you sit!

 

Alright, fair enough. I understand that these people have reasons, they're not out blowing people up just for the fun of it...but there is simply no excuse for killing unarmed innocent civilians. You can understand their reasons all you want, but they still need to be brought to justice for it one way or another. Understanding will help prevent it, but so will deterring anyone else from trying this stuff.

 

I agree no matter how much they can say its for good, they have their hands in mud. As you might notice I hate too see people in pain for anothers Pleasure, Its Wrong, its ARG DAMN WRONG! When the world is rid of Evil and Power I will live there for I do not like what the world has come too it makes me think that I was born into the wrong day and age, why can't the world just be as it was made too be. what is this stupid little power struggle we endorse every day! Why do we do everything for Ourselves why don't we ever stop to help the less fortinate! why don't we stop and think where the world will head not just us? Tell me, are we really good people? or can we sometimes be just as bad as thoughs we oppose... ok sorry about that I had too ge it off my chest.

 

Let's keep the theory of terrorism out of this thread guys. Keep it to remembrance and that which is deserved at this stage...

 

Rememberance is all well and good, but as I stated, the best - and only fitting - way to remember these people and honour their sacrifice, is to try and prevent it from happening again. In any context.

This means addressing the problem of terrorism, its causes, motivations, and how to crush this basis from which most clerics build a network.


Lest we forget; but may we never sink to the same level.

This is something I desperately implore to all. An eye for an eye make's the baby Huggard cry.

 

I do not support terrorism in any way. But these people fight their causes be it right or wrong in the most effective fashion. That is blowing away innocent people. It is a great military strategy.
Palestinians fight tanks with rocks and make human bombs, because that is the only valid way to fight their war. It is not a fair or just way, but it is to them the only way.

 

yeah sorry guys just had too dump that somewhere. anyway, Get back to rememberance now eh?