ST What would get you so mad that you would walk out of Episode VII?

How about finding out that JJ has made it so Star Wars takes place in the same world as the new Star Trek movies?

 

If he is/was so fine with this, why did he go into hiding from friends and return a little mad according to latest rumours. Would probably not have been the case with a family. But you're take on him is what Lucas always planned and that Luke would never marry etc.

 

the purpose for Luke to have a wife/children wouldn't be for the sake of the relationship itself, like it was with Anakin and Padme. But that it would represent the Skywalker legacy living on. Further, because Anakin was concieved by the Force, it would be interesting to follow his bloodline and how his descendents respond to being jedi or force sensitive or whatever.

Obviously, this is technically possible via Leia, but she doesn't really represent the "Skywalker" legacy....not in a thematic way, anyhow. She's an Organa and/or Solo. A politician, a fighter, a scoundrel, albeit Force sensitive. So, sure...it could probably be done with Leia instead of Luke, but I feel like she walks a different path.

 

Exactly. Plus as seen in the EU, she was the type to renounce the Skywalker name, so in essence it's not a continuation of the Skywalker legacy we would have with Leia.

You're going to have to ask JJ Abrams that.

 

GL is not the main contributor of these films, so you can't count them as canon, either.
All those "questions that float in our minds and are left unanswered?"
Like, you mean, "what are these "Clone Wars?", who are the Jedi?, what's the deal with this Empire?, who is the other hope? What happened to Anakin?, who are these characters (Han, Luke, Leia, Obi-wan, Tarkin, etc.) and where do they come from?"
Or, you know, all the questions you have at the beginning of a Star Wars film, or any other film?
We didn't see Lando in IV, where did he come from, when did he and Han become friends? Why is Mon Mothma in charge instead of Leia? What's with these bounty hunters on Ord Mantell?
And, you know, who are all these other new characters, and what's their deal?
All the things movies have proven themselves capable of explaining in situ, or which don't actually matter.

 

If the government roundup happes and we are all marched out of the theater, then I am out of there.

 

After going through the holocaust of Lucas' legacy that was the prequels, I doubt anything can make me walk out.

 

Good points above! I love the whole "it's no longer canon" argument. I say until Disney gives me something else to fill the gaps that they so wonderfully erased the EU is more legit and informative than what we have now. All the stuff that I have read in the past 15+ years mean more to me than the gaping hole they left in the Star Wars continuity. I know how Han Solo won the Millennium Falcon, I know who owned the Falcon before him and before him and before that guy. I know that Luke finally found happiness with his wife and also incredible sorrow when his dick rash of a nephew killed her. I know that Chewie died saving Han Solo's son and he was devastated by it. The EU is a living breathing thing that just suddenly got axed because Disney wants their 4 Billion dollars back. Until they give me something better these stories are what happened. I can't wait until episode 7 but even then it will seem like an alternate timeline to me.

 

1)As I took upon myself to avoid most rumors(a decision I might change if I can't control my curiosity), I was not aware of such rumors.


2)Rumors are mostly unreliable, though it's certainly possible a few truths might have been leaked(hence my reason for not going looking for them). In any case I really would not base my arguments on rumors.


3)A self-sacrificing character like Luke might have taken off even with a family, if he thought his presence was a danger to them. As someone who has a distaste for such Peter Parker tendencies, I REALLY hope Abrams is not attempting such a thing with Luke. Obi-Wan as the mentor in exile was fine in ANH, and whilst I am hoping Luke will take the mentor role in the ST, having him in exile would be a bit too similar for my taste.


4) I never said anywhere that Lucas 'planned for everything'. Like most artists, he had some of the end result in mind and improvised the rest. His trilogies were a result of a deep vision that took some unexpected turns. Still, this doesn't mean that every twist worked for the best...I am of course refering to Leia being Luke's sister. It really shows that GL didn't plan for them to be twins because Leia only displays Force-sensitivity in the end of ESB when it is required of her to feel Luke, and the 'always have known' in ROTJ was not present in the previous two movies. Heck she even kissed the guy...


However, the 'Darth Vader is Luke's father' worked fantastically as an unplanned twist as both characters (Luke, Vader) possessed a similar strenght in the Force and never met one another. Sir Alec's secretive demeanour in telling Luke the fate of his father helped a lot sell this 'two characters are related' truth, even if it was mostly accidental on his part. But the Leia-Luke-twins twist didn't work for me for reasons already stated, and Luke having a family in the ST would feel just as awkward.

I have stated many times outside this thread that the new ST movies don't fit my definition of Canon. I have also declared that whilst I won't consider them canon I am still invested in them as much as I am when reading a potentially good fanfiction. Meaning I am allowing myself to get to a certain level of excitement whilst waiting for the release anyway. Like everyone I have certain standards in what makes a movie adequate, and I am hoping I will be satisfied with the quality. From what I know of Abrams(having watched a few movies of his) and from my trailer impressions, I predict I won't like the new trilogy. That will not be the end of the world for me, but I am still opening myself to the idea of the next three movies having potential. Hopefully I can be pleasantly surprised-just like I was when watching ANH for the first time. I reluctantly watched the movie, convinced it was going to be utter garbage, yet it ended up being one of my favorite films.

Important questions concerning major relationships and dynamics should be answered. Some background of course lacks relevance in movies. Romantic relationship backgrounds with minor characters like Beru/Owen would be devoid of importance, for instance. But I personally feel like a main character like Luke Skywalker(he was after all the lead of the OT...) deserves to have a full on-screen romance if he is to actually have a wife. We did get to follow the progression of Han/Leia after all. No we were not shown them being married in the OT(would have been premature as hell given that they just *officially* got together at the end of ROTJ), but we know how they ended up 'clicking', which is all that matters.

Answers to said questions were well established in the movies so I don't understand your point.

I don't know about you but I certainly felt Tarkin was not explored enough in ANH. I would have liked to gain deeper insight into his role whithin the Empire and his relationship with Vader. Why wasn't Vader chocking him for his impertinence like other high Imperial figures? Why did Tarkin have power over him-why was his rank higher than a Sith Lord? Speaking of the Empire, I felt we lacked necessary information, like why so many joined it? It feels cheap to speculate classical reasons like fear and greed for power. The OT could have done with the addition of political scenes telling us what does non-Sith think the Empire stand for, maybe via Rebels turning traitors or/and Imperials defecting. I wanted to get a few backstories for joining the two sides. Likewise I would have liked Mon Mothma's presence to be bigger in the films, and fellow Rebels making more apparitions in ESB so that outside of the Death Stars destructions steps taken to override the Empire seem meaningful.

...As long as major questions are eventually answered in the end of movies/trilogies, who cares? I am not wanting every single little question to be answered, or any blanks to be filled with needless information. Some things are better left open like Palpatine's past prior to his Sith education, or the hint given at ROTS about Plagueis somehow conceiving Anakin. I have defended recently the concept of ambiguity working like a charm in some scenarios because it gives some characters a sense of wonder, or mistifies concepts(The Force being vague works better IMO).

My problem is where a lack of information decreases the credibility or emotional investment towards characters/concepts. If you want another character example, I'll refer to Jedi Councilmen. Other than Yoda, Obi-Wan and Mace Windu, they were not given any personality at all in the PT. Ki-Adi Mundi is the only one who got a few expendable lines, which did nothing to enhance him as a character. It's like they were clones or robots(not including our dear R2 and C3P0 in that assessment!). There is no need for them to have been major characters, but they could have been given more flavors, like the teachers in Harry Potter. Minor presences but we know their personality and roles well because JKR did a good job fleshing out Hogwarts staff.

Bounty hunters in the saga are too minor & lack potential to be more explored, even the much overrated Fetts. Han as an ex-smuggler and him not trusting Lando doesn't seem to indicate a strong brotherhood to me. They probably forged an alliance of some kind during smuggling, never reaching the Han-Chewie level. I thought they only truly bonded during their fight against Empire in ROTJ. Their relationship start didn't need to be shown as long as their is a friendship arc, and there was one in the OT with Lando selling Han/co to the Empire in exchange for his people's safety, to him risking his life to rescue Han & help him in the Rebellion. They went from flakey friends to being lifelong 'risking my neck for yours' friends. In contrast, showing Luke in a happy marriage in the start of ST leaves no possible arc for his relationship with MrsWhoKnows. Unless he and Mrs Skywalker end up having marital tensions, separating, divorcing...in which case I would still question the purpose of giving Luke having a wife just to have him leave said wife. No matter from what angle I approach it, him having a wife always ends up being useless.

With newly introduced folks in the ST, I fully expect the important ones to have deep character arcs, not to remain static during the whole trilogy. Otherwise I am afraid I will find the ST too cartoony.


I used to think Luke would unfortunately get a wife/family when the news of the ST were being announced. Yet the teaser trailer has left me with hope regarding that matter. We were shown (presumably) the three new leads. The pilot looks like he might be related to Wedge, Boyega unrelated to anyone(good, at least there will be important characters with no family connections with the PT or OT). Daisy could be either Luke's daughter or Leia/Han's daughter. Hell maybe she is unrelated to anyone(I doubt it, though...I think we are not done with the Chosen One's lineage).I just do not think a Skywalker descendant would be a minor character in the new trilogy if a Solo happens to be a major one(or vice versa). Given that Leia+Han were established in the OT, I am leaning on the girl being their daughter instead of Luke's. But maybe Han and Leia won't have any children or not be together anymore in the ST. I really hope Abrams doesn't go in that direction though...I want to see the unified trio of the OT, not a broken up team.

 

I do agree 100% that the Luke/Leia sister relationship did not work very well and was not planned until ESB (maybe not, when you remember some deleted scenes between Luke/Leia) or maybe even not until ROTJ. That she could feel the force as well in the end of ESB doesn't necessary mean it was already decided that she would be his sister. She could have been revealed as a descendant of someone else. I read in some making offs that they desperately searched for a reason of Luke to turn to the dark side in ROTJ, so maybe the sister relationship was just decided at that point. Also as a solution of the Luke/Han/Leia love triangle.

I do agree and I would also dislike such an approach, but maybe there is a different more fitting approach.

Maybe the Skywalker descendant will be a major character, but will be just revealed as such in episode VIII.

 

nightangel

I just find it strange that Leia suddenly had the Force in ESB when she showed no signs of it in ANH. But maybe Leia feeling Luke was meant to be seen as a 'bond-connection' that was caused by Luke's force sensitivity(rather like Padmé could *feel* Anakin in ROTS) instead of a sibling thing then.

Luke was going to turn to the dark side initially? Dear Force I am glad they didn't stick with that. If Luke turns to the dark side in the ST, I'll be loss for words.

I think the end of ESB made it clear that it was going to be Han/Leia, closing the Luke/Leia possibility from ANH and much of ESB. It would have been better for Luke's feelings to fade(which they did eventually) than going for a twin solution. Or even better, to not create a love triangle at all, making Luke disinterested in Leia romantically from the beginning(although I understand that Luke was initially going to end up with Leia).

The only way I could see Luke/MrsWhoKnows having a positive character arc in the trilogy(as opposed to a negative arc or no arc at all) is if Luke only meets her in Force Awakens or the episode after that. But by then they would be too old (60-ish?) to conceive a child. But who knows, maybe Abrams is planning to give Luke a wife only, no children. I have previously mentioned the flashbacks possibility, but I personally feel it would feel off to have flashbacks in SW.

It could be. Star was would forever be known as the 'shocking family revelations movies'.

Honestly I think there are enough family twists in the current movies, and am hoping Abrams doesn't go in that direction. What if the descendant is another Force-conceived child(in the situation of Luke having no wife)? Hmm I should stop speculating nightmare scenarios...

 

Hearing people complain like they do about PT

 

What would get you so mad that you would walk out of Episode VII?
Jar Jar still being alive and in the storyline in anyway.

Other than that, probably not much.

 

What I'd like to see is an explanation that Jedi and Sith are just Force Traditions and not the entirety of the Force.

By that I mean they introduce or reintroduce other Force Traditions like the Dathomir so they expand on what exists in the Star Wars Universe not continuously ply the Jedi vs Sith as accomplishing this will explain why Luke is the last of the Old Jedi and first of the new.

What would make me walk out is if they try another repeat of the mistakes shown in the Prequels where they couldn't make sense of the story trying for a CGI fest relying on over the top Jedi-Sith fights to cover up an awful incoherent back story.

I'm hoping Daisy is playing a non-force sensitive whose assumed to be one of those to be awakened but is actually a red herring to allow the transition to the new cast and a link to the old that would make her the Han Solo of the new trilogy now that I'd love to see!

 

Luke did indeed turn to the dark side according to George Lucas interviews, when Vader said:"Your feelings have now betrayed her, too. Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete. If you will not turn to the Dark Side... then perhaps she will...". That was the turning point they desperately searched. Ok, we know now that Luke turned back from the dark side, when he watched at the cut down arm of his father and his own robotic hand. But Kasdan initially wanted to go further and let Luke completely go to the dark side. Lucas didn't agree with this.

Luke will be 53, if TFA is set around 30 years later. My father was 2 years older when I was born. I know out of experience older parents can be problematic, but that's a different story and in Star Wars universe age may be less a problem.

I read an article in a German tv newspaper about filming of episode VII and it is written there, that Abrams added a twist to the script, which is on the same level as the 'I am your father moment...', so we will see.

 

They really should have just left the OT alone. The story was done and over. There can't be a villain more significant than the main character's father. There's nothing Luke, Han, and Leia could do after ROTJ that would do their characters any justice other than an epilogue. I really have my doubts about the creative approach Disney and JJ Abrams are taking to even be doing sequels with those characters involved in any way.

What they should have done was go Knights of the Old Republic style and make as many Star Wars films as they wanted, set thousands of years earlier, with all kinds of Jedi and Sith and new stories that would have been completely free from the OT.

 

Godwin'd

 

The OT isn't some golden calf that can't possibly be touched. They're movies, really good movies I might add, but movies nonetheless. My only worry is that they go the route of retconning everything. As in, I will be really disappointed if the Inquisitorus is still active in this film and wasn't destroyed at the end of Rebels. I hate the idea that there were hundreds of Jedi and Si- er, I mean, "Dark Jedi" floating around during the OT. It sort of defeats the point of the whole "Last of the Jedi" theme they were going with.

 

If Luke, Chewie, R2, or 3PO die.

 

The only movies that I've been tempted to walk out on were Godzilla and Batman + Robin, but I sat through those. I can't imagine any Star Wars movie being so bad that I would consider walking out.

If it's that bad I want to see the whole thing in order to have an intelligent discussion about it after the fact. I don't trust the opinion of anyone who takes the time to criticize a movie but doesn't have the patience to watch the whole thing.

 

Jar Jar, Anakin Ghost (played by Hayden), Luke dying, no Solo or Skywalker offspring, too much screen time for that goofy new ball droid.

 

What kind of sentiment is that? You even expressed yourself:

There's no reason for them to "touch" the OT, it will just piss people off. You don't take history and alter it. The best they can do is build on the OT, but let's look at some factors here.

First, who could possibly be bigger villains than Darth Vader and the Emperor? Nobody. They can't just take some random bad guy and fancy him up in paint and grunts and different weapons and say he's a badass. Darth Vader was the main character's father, and the Emperor ruled the entire galaxy. It doesn't get any deeper or more significant than that, and whoever the villain is in this new film will pale in comparison.

Second, how can you possibly improve the conflict? The Rebels were getting their butts kicked during the OT, but the destruction of the 2nd Death Star and the death of the Emperor had to have been a significant turning point. It's like the Alliance's toughest battles are behind them ... part of storytelling is to find the parts where the conflict is the strongest. How can they manage a story out of this same plot line when the strongest conflicts have already been resolved?

I'll be very surprised if this new film is anything other than superficial fighting mixed in with melodramatic soap opera stuff. I really have my doubts now.

But if they had just made films set thousands of years earlier, they could have had new Jedi and Sith, new storylines, a brand new sandbox really with no restrictions. I would have looked forward to it.

 

If R2 dies and doesn't become one with Force.

 

*People yaking on their cellphones & amongst each other, throughout the movie.
*People tapping their feet..... repeatably.
*People with ten gallon hats, sitting in front of me.