PT What would happen if Obi-Wan was not on Amidala's ship?

"Such calamitous handling of delicate matters is a very human failing -- something which Obi-Wan sort of admits to later on ("I have failed you, Anakin..."), but not with any degree of tact, discretion, contrition, or understanding;"

at this point anakin has sided with sidious, destroyed the order and killed jedi younglings. i don't know how much tact obi has left.

"This is really quite ridiculous. Obi-Wan himself, lest I remind you, was eager to become a murderer before confronting Padme about Anakin's whereabouts -- he simply wanted the target to be Palpatine, not Anakin."

destroying the sith is in no way "murder". murder is killing someone in cold blood who can't defend themselves like anakin did. murder is not the same as killing your enemy in a fight or in a war. jedi have killed plenty of people in the films. did obi-wan murder maul then?

 

True. Anakin has done terrible things by this point in the story and that cannot be overlooked. Obi-Wan is working through his own emotions here, his own denial and disbelief, his own composure and quiet agony. It's a good turn by Lucas and Ewan McGregor. Still, an important element of the story is that the Jedi had, or have, a hand in their own destruction. Obi-Wan might be thin on patience, but his assent to impulsivity and condemnation only push Anakin further toward his painful destiny. And in the process, Obi-Wan comes very near to destroying himself. They are brothers locked in a ghastly embrace: two spirits being almost swallowed whole by their own disregard for language and logical accountability. That they wreck what was previously a perfectly good mining facility, allowing the primordial environment to devour a section of the super structure, has always been a striking metaphor, to me.

Killing is murder. The movie even starts with violent drum pounding. If you listen carefully, the drums are actually saying, in effect, "red rum, red rum, red rum", which as Kubrick shows us in "The Shining", is "murder" in a mirror. A trace of red rum can also be seen in the maroon decal along the dagger-shaped Republic cruiser hanging tenuously in the thin atmosphere. And the SHINING light of a brilliant sun scorches the frame for a moment as the camera pans down. You seem to recognize that these Jedi are used to murder; it's all in a day's work. "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword". That, to me, is one of the profound moral lessons of the Star Wars saga. It comes back on Anakin and Obi-Wan equally.

Just my opinion, though.

 

See this is one of the great things about Star Wars. Every character is flawed. There is no such thing as the perfect Jedi.

 

OK, I'd like to chime in on this fascinating topic.

The conversation between Anakin and Padme wasn't going great before Obi-Wan showed up:

1. Vader doesn't deny killing younglings
2. He has just stated his intention to kill Palpatine
3. He has just offered Padme the chance to rule at his side

Padme reacts with complete horror at what Vader is saying and what Anakin has become. Even if her words did soften Vader for a moment, it was too late for him to go back to his old life; he had destroyed his old way of life.

So what would have happened next with no Obi-Wan? I honestly think the argument would have continued. Yes, she was saying she loved him, but it was too late by then. Way too late. Anakin would have ended up choking Padme anyway, and she would have died anyway.

The only difference?

THE TWINS FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE SITH.

Think about that for a minute! Imagine ROTS ending with Vader and Sidious each holding an infant while looking out the window of that Star Destroyer!

 

That's an intriguing thought. Yeah, I don't see much changing, myself but I don't agree with the he can't go back stance.

 

i guess we differ on the definition of "murder" then.

 

Let me ask you this; what would Anakin have gone back to? Could he have simply killed Palpatine and returned control of the Senate to the senators without facing the wrath of the Jedi? I suppose he could have taken Padme's advice that they run away and hide and raise their children together, but I don't think our boy even heard that well enough to say it went in one ear and out the other.

 

Fascinating thoughts SaintKenobi1322. The idea of Palpatine and Vader having both Twins and raising them to be Sith would have changed the entire Saga. It would either mean that Jedi would go extinct or that after having been exposed to the Dark Side, Luke and Leia would eventually discover Obi-Wan and Yoda and possibly turn to the Light Side. It might play out for instance like Starkiller, who was Vader's apprentice, but inevitably turned to the Light Side.

 

No. Not without a great deal more training. Anakin in ROTS would have been no match for Palpatine. Yoda couldn't even defeat Darth Sidious, the newly minted Darth Vader would have no chance. He would need years of Sith training to achieve the power to defeat Palpatine, and by then, he would have been far too immersed in the Dark Side to return from its depths.

 

Vialco, Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith Video Game disagrees. You can follow the path of Vader, defeat Obi-Wan at Mustafar, and then Anakin in a cutscene slays Palpatine. XD

 

In which Palpatine just... stands there as Vader flourishes his saber, tosses it in the air, then slowly stabs him
Totally seems like something the saga Sidious would do

 

Seagoat, hence why I put a grin and XD symbol at the end. I was joking with Vialco. It is indeed absurd how Anakin slays Anakin in the video game, but I wanted to banter with Vialco about it. He is correct that Anakin according to canon could not defeat Palpatine at that point in his life.

 

I have been asked to banter, and so I shall. Anakin does indeed kill Palpatine in that scene, where the Emperor just stands there. Fairly uncharacteristic of Sidious, but you have to remember that he had just had an exhausting battle with Yoda and didn't have a chance to take his inhaler before he set foot on Mustafar. Unfortunately, he didn't realize that the ash and smoke would make his asthma even worse. By the time Anakin arrived on the platform, Sidious was probably focusing all his Force energy on breathing clearly and didn't have the strength to react when Anakin stabbed him. He probably thought that Anakin had his spare inhaler and was trying to hand it to him. Too bad he left his glasses on Coruscant, or he would have seen that Anakin was holding a lightsaber and not an inhaler

(Note: No offense to asthmatics or the visually impaired, I wear glasses myself and am asthmatic, so this is all tongue-in-cheek. And can you imagine trying to take a clean breath on Mustafar? All that smoke and ash would leave anyone a coughing wreck.)

 

Lol Vialco, I think your observation that Sidious was exhausted from fighting Yoda is accurate. That could be used in a case to claim that the ROTS Video Game Alternate Ending is viable. However, if Sidious indeed though Vader's Lightsaber (that Sidious hands to Vader) was an inhaler, then he was as Darth Malgus said, "Decieved."

 

Kato Sai Vialco
I think it's pretty obvious that taking all that lightning to the face damaged his vision a bit, with how bright it is. He was just on his way to buy some glasses when he heard that he had to go rescue Vader.

 

Interesting discussion, from all points of views - while I'm on the side that Padmé would have reached through to him eventually, I couldn't see what some of you were saying, that he was softening just before Obi-Wan emerged.

So I took a bunch of printscreens of Anakin's reactions, to analyze the scene.



So, there's a bunch...
At first, is the only time we see him looking sorry, when she says she knows about him turning and killing the younglings.
I'm not sure what the smile in the second one (after "Obi-Wan cares about us and wants to help you") means. Does he find that amusing and ironic?
In the third one, when she's trying to convince him to come with her, you see him lick his lips just for a second. He is (might be) hearing her, but ultimately it doesn't get through and he can't understand why she's not as enthusiastic as he is, as seen in pic #4, when he's super-excited about ruling the empire with her.
In the fifth one, it's the "I don't want to hear anymore about Obi-Wan", he's cold, dismissive and more or less "warning" her.
6 - "Don't you turn against me" - same thing. He's cold and distant. And she's horrified.
7 - "Because of Obi-Wan?" - still cold and detached, while Padmé is in tears.
Now - this is when I noticed what I think you meant, I see a bit of softening. Screenshot #8 is just when she's pleading with him to stop and come back, shouting and in tears, and 9 - that's when he sees Obi-Wan, and everything changes.
10 is obviously right before he shouts "LIAR" to her, and he's beyond reason.

 

@Nimwey That was awesome. I love that breakdown/analysis. Man as much as I didn't like Hayden's monotone line delivery, there's no denying it, he nailed his facial expressions. Nailed them.

And you're right. There is a bit of a softening of expression there, right before Obi-Wan comes out.

 

Personally I think Anakin was a emotional wreck at this point and his anger was clearly not far behind, I think Padme would have pushed him over the edge eventually. I think it's clear he's too emotional to be thinking straight I mean come on he choked Padme, If I was in the film I would have just gone over to Anakin tapped him on the shoulder and said "Urm excuse me buddy, but the whole reason you sided with Palpatine was you know to save Padme's life. Just an observation but I....I really don't think choking her is to way to go about saving her, you know!!.I'm Just saying, you know I'm just putting it out there".

 

The only possible "softening" I can see is when he thinks he might be reaching "her" but when she reacts with horror, he goes cold and distant again.

 

I agree with this

 

I honestly don't know. I really don't.