What would happen if Vader was never Redeemed.

I mean I know Luke would have died and the Empire would still be around but what would happen if Vader never returned from the Darkside.

 

Well, as you said Luke would have died, because presumably the Emperor would have finished killing him with dark side lightning. Then the Emperor and Vader would have stood there for a few uncomfortable minutes before being killed when the Death Star was successfully blown up by the rebels. Remember, Luke's attempt to turn Vader was successful when Vader redeemed himself and killed the Emperor, thus dying in the process... but the attack on the Death Star would have been successful anyway; it wasn't dependent on what was going on inside.

 

That or it would have set off a chain reaction of events to favor the darkside, some TIEs would get lucky and take out Lando and Wedge. Endor destroyed by the Death Star taking out everyone there and then the Rebel Fleet being wiped out.

It's also possible that Vader could have killed Palpatine after realizing he just let his son die.

 

Luke, Sidious and Vader would all have died and the destruction of the Sith and subsequent bringing of balance to the Force would've been rightly attributed to the true Chosen One, Admiral Ackbar!

 

Darth Vader would've went ape **** that his son, and his candidate for new apprentice, was just killed by his master. He'd go all darkside and either kill Palpataine or fail miserably and get killed himself.

I'm gonna say he would've died, seeing as he was beat down by Luke previously. So then the Emporer would probably try to escape. But, in order to finish the movie he'd die when the DS was blown up.

 

Personally, I see since the he was redeemed by his love for Luke, Vader would basically not care about Luke anymore - So Luke probably would have been killed by Vader who would unleash his full suited potential (not holding back against Luke) from the start. He would probably then kill Sidious as Sith do, then escape - I seriously doubt that the Throne room doesn't have a escape pod somewhere, and take control of the Empire, and look for a new apprentice

 

I got your escape pod right here.
[image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/a/af/Shuttle-CHRON.jpg]

 

Exactly - there was enough time for Luke to drag Darth Vader all the way to a shuttle, have vader tell Luke he was right, and escape. there is no way Vader and/or Sidious would just sit there and wait for the big bang:

Vader: There rebels have destroyed the Main Reactor

Sidious: They have, that's a shame, I'll miss Cooking on Rodia now...

***Boom***

If Vader was never redeemed, basically the Rebels were dead, and the Jedi Prophecy really was misunderstood

 

True... I accidentally left out the possibility of a shuttle escape. But I'm not sure Palpatine would have believed that the rebels could have gotten the shield down and managed a daring attack inside the Death Star like they did; the chain reaction was slower than the first Death Star, but maybe not slow enough. But maybe he would have started thinking about evacuating the Death Star anyway just in case after the Executor crashed into it.

 

This does bring up something very clever...Luke actually achieves nothing. As herculean as his efforts were twice now his efforts were in vain, for lack of a better word. Had he chosen to stay on Dagobah in ESB, or remain on Endor with the Rebels, nothing would have changed.

 

Then the Emperor and Vader would have stood there for a few uncomfortable minutes before being killed when the Death Star was successfully blown up by the rebels.


Lando and Wedge had struck the Death Star while Luke and Vader were still aboard. If Luke had died, Vader and the Emperor would have been able to escape via a shuttle . . . like Luke eventually did.

 

Please see my more recent post above, which added to the original.

 

I think they'd still die. First off, Luke's just killed after Palpataine was urging Luke to betray his father, kill him, and then join his side. Darth Vader isn't just going to let that go, whether he's the obedient apprentice or not. Second, the Emporer's overconfidence is his weakness, he wouldn't believe for a second that the Rebels would be able to inflitrate the DS and blow it up under his watch. He'd probably send another force out to try and tackle them, and watch from the throne room.

 

He'd sense the imminent destruction through the Force.

 

But how imminent? He would have to sense it early enough to have time to evacuate. The Executor crashed into the Death Star not long at all after he died, and then the chain reaction shots fired by the Falcon and a fighter that finished it off were soon after that. As I said, I doubt he would have believed that the rebels could have done any of that or gotten the shields down in the first place... just like he didn't expect Vader to turn on him. As Luke said, his overconfidence was his weakness.

 

He'd have the time, and he wouldn't be dragging Vader, so that would give him even more time.

 

I still think the Emperor's Throne room had a secret escape pod somewhere - I mean this is Sidious/Palpatine, who has a shield generator built into his throne. Luke wouldn't have known about it hence he had to go to the shuttle bay. And as said, Sidioud wouldn't bother dragging Vader had he (Palps)killed Luke after Luke cut off Vader's hand - he's already had to rebuild him once.

 

The notion that the Emperor would just hang around on the soon-to-be-destroyed DS because "his overconfidence is his weakness" is patently absurd. If someone pointed a gun at his face at point-blank range, he wouldn't stand there gloating with overconfidence, certain that the gun would miss! He'd get the hell out of the way. He may be arrogant, but he isn't stupid.

The key point is that the Emperor's confidence depended on the shield staying up. Once the shield drops, and Lando and the Rebels enter into the substructure of the space station, Palpatine would have been alerted. At this point he would realize he'd been beaten, and he'd high tail it out of there on the nearest available shuttle. Vader would have followed suit, either on the same shuttle or a different one. They would have re-grouped on Coruscant and lived to fight another day, battling the Rebellion as led by Leia, Han and Lando.

 

I meant of course that his overconfidence would lead him to not believe that the rebels could get the shield down or pull off the attack inside the structure of the Death Star. And my point for saying that has simply been that the longer it took him to realize the shields were down and that the station really was doomed (starting with the Executor crashing into it), the less time he would have to safely evacuate.

 

My point remains that if the Emperor refused to believe what his own officers were telling him -- "The shield is down! The Rebels have infiltrated the substructure!" -- then he would be incredibly stupid. The character has never been presented as anything but masterfully cunning and self-preserving. Palpatine's confidence depended on the shields being up. Once he knows they're down, he would act to save himself. In the film, we see there's plenty of time for Luke to escape once Lando and Wedge enter those interior corridors. There would be no point for Palpatine to dawdle around twiddling his thumbs -- "Hm, gee, I wonder if the Rebels can really destroy a Death Star?" -- before the place suddenly goes "Ka-Booom!". That's just bad plotting and inconsistent characterization.

 

Yes, and I haven't said (or meant to imply) that Palpatine would be ignoring what his officers were telling him. I agree that he is "masterfully cunning and self-preserving"... essentially an evil genius. But I do think that after so much success it had started going to his head by that point, enough at least that Luke was partially right with his "overconfidence" statement. But of course if Palpatine knew the station was doomed he would act quickly to save himself.

 

Yes, it would have. Vader would've never gone to the DS2 if Luke hadn't surrendered himself and therefore, never would have died.

And presumably, Palpatine would not have either.

 

Eh, no?
1)
His whole plan was risky in the first place and he didn't secure Endor properly.
2)
His arrogant speech was part of the reason Luke didn't kill his father.

Summary: he is intelligent, but his one big weakness is hubris. I deem it possible that he would remain too long on the station.

 

1)

He had alegion of his best troops. Its not his fault they were useless against primitive Ewoks/Gullible to Rebel Troops in Stolen ATSTs

2)

I thought it was the chopped off hand that made Luke not turn?

I may be wrong

TFM

 

Then Star Wars would have no deep meaning and no story depth.