CT What would have happened to Anakin/ Darth Vader if he survived his final encounter with Palpatine?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Mach, Mar 22, 2014.

Moderators: Darth_Nub, MOC Yak Face
  1. Mach Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2014
    If Anakin Skywalker, Darth Vader, hadn't died and went with Luke on his shuttle to Endor. What do you think would have happened? How he'd be treated? By the rebels? Would there have been a trial? I always wondered this. (Hope it's okay to post this here. If not, my apologies!)

    Is there a fanfiction on this anywhere? :p
    Last edited by Mach, Mar 22, 2014
  2. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    From Star Wars Infinities: Return of the Jedi

    [IMG]

    (I might have to move this thread elsewhere, but let's see how the discussion goes. And @Mach - welcome to the boards!)
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Mar 22, 2014
    Iron_lord likes this.
  3. Mach Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2014
    That's pretty cool, I'll have to read that. I haven't properly delved into the EU as much as I want to.

    @Darth_Nub, Yeah, my apologies. I was wondering where I should make a post. Wanted to start a discussion of some sort. Thought of the question and I said to myself it could fit in the Classic Trilogy forum, or the EU one, or, I guess, the Fanfiction board(?)... Maybe not. Decided to try my luck here. So sorry! Should've asked or something :confused:

    EDIT: And thanks for the welcome!
    Last edited by Mach, Mar 22, 2014
  4. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    It's no problem - it could easily fit into CT, Lit, EUC or Fan Fiction, will depend what sort of direction the discussion takes.

    Personally I've always wondered just what might have happened if Vader had accepted Luke's offer to come with him on Endor - given that it would probably have involved a trial for war crimes and perhaps execution, it wasn't much of a deal anyway.

    On the other hand, if you look at the rough/first draft of The Star Wars, the Sith Knight Prince Valorum does switch sides, and ends up in the royal court (he's directly based on General Tadokoro from Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress).
    Would GL's attitude have remained the same? How would the Rebel Alliance as it was by the time of ROTJ regarded the Emperor's right-hand man if he defected and perhaps aided them - a war criminal or a hero?
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Mar 22, 2014
    Iron_lord likes this.
  5. Jedi_Apprentice Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 3
    He'd probably be tried and executed.
  6. Mach Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Alright, cool. Thanks ^^

    I always thought, since Palpatine died, Vader would gain control over the remaining Empire and ease it back into a democracy. Tried and executed would be sad. :(

    If he defected when Luke asked him to turn on Endor is interesting too. How would they have proceeded from there? I'm sure they'd at least use him for the duration of the war. Intel or in battle. Luke probably would've stood by him. Whether he is let off the hook at the end, couldn't really say. Tried and executed, possibly. :\
  7. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It's not like the Rebels haven't accepted war criminals into their ranks before, if they're repentant. At least in the EU.

    Crix Madine springs to mind. And from TFU, Juno Eclipse.
  8. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Just remembered that in GL's Revised Rough Draft of Revenge of the Jedi, Luke's father does survive, or rather, is brought back to life in his former form (Darth Vader drags Palps into a lava pit earlier), and stands alongside the heroes at the end, so no trial or execution:

    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Mar 22, 2014
  9. mute90 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2012
    I think his treatment by the rebels would depend a lot on how useful he was. Even after Palpatine's death, the empire would have lived on. Vader could have been a huge source of information. I highly doubt the rebellion would have turned him away or had him executed at that point.

    One thing that I've wondered about is how Anakin would have acted. I've come across some fanfiction about Anakin post-ROTJ but I'm usually not satisfied with his characterization. This goes into his whole redemption scene. Anakin's fall and his redemption were very similar. In both cases, he's out to save a loved one but, with Luke, it's while abandoning his previous pursuit of power. So, Anakin of the PT and Anakin at the end of the saga still value his loved ones above all else (certainly more than Jedi or Sith ideals). That's as far as I believe his redemption goes. He abandons the monster he's become and returns to the flawed human he was. However, the way he was before, he still didn't really believe in democracy. He would not have valued rebellion goals over his own family. He did resent the Jedi. I can believe he'd regret his actions towards Luke, Leia, Padme, and even Obi-Wan. However, how far does his regret really extend? Would his political views cause many to keep mistrusting him?

    It's already been established that becoming a Force Ghost is a skill and not some sign of inner peace. So, there's no measure of how much Anakin's really changed. Every time I think of Anakin Post-ROTJ, I think of the troubled Anakin in the prequels with patience acquired from years as Vader.
  10. thedarkbeckons Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2013
    star 1
    The Yoda arc in the final season of The Clone Wars, as well as subsequent interviews with Dave Filoni, firmly establish that one can only retain their consciousness after death by being selfless in life, at least at the time of death). Your argument still carries some weight, but might I posit that caring for your loved ones is not necessarily a violation of being selfless in word, deed, and thought?

    Anakin of the PT was certainly flawed in his views and feelings, and Vader was the result of those flaws fully matured. By saving his son out of pure motives, not out of attachment but out of love, I believe Anakin healed those flaws to the point that they were only scars of remembrance, much as he still remained burned from the Mustafar lava. Would those scars continue to affect his life had he lived beyond the Battle of Endor? Most certainly. But would he have accepted the Empire, or a Empire, as the right road to follow and espouse? It is not possible to be sure what he would have done, yet my heart tells me no.

    His belief in a central government concentrated in one individual was born out of a belief that there was a perfect leader. If the man was right, the government would be right. The problem that Anakin failed to take note of (and did so in most of his relationships) is that everyone is flawed (some more than others). When his trust in Palpatine was shaken, even blasted away fully, in my mind he would at the least begin to doubt that one man could ever hold that much power without either first being corrupt or eventually being corrupted by the very power that he held. As the 1800s historian and moralist John Dalberg-Acton said, and is still quoted often, "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."
    Ananta Chetan and Iron_lord like this.
  11. Darthbane2007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    star 4
    I do not think anybody would be so willing to accept Vader with open arms...
  12. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    If Darth Vader was brought back to the Rebel Alliance by Luke Skywalker, the last Jedi Knight and the pilot who fired the shot that destroyed the first Death Star, I'm not so sure how many would be so willing to put their hands up and demand his execution.
    Immediately, anyway - you can imagine the EU being particularly messy about the matter, I seem to recall that the major Bothan in the 1990s EU dredged up Leia's parentage as a political issue whenever he could.

    Of course, the final film eliminated such ambiguity for obvious reasons by allowing Vader/Anakin to die somewhat nobly - which was the only real option. If they'd gone with that rough draft idea of Anakin partying with the rest on Endor, we'd have endless threads about whether or not he deserved to be forgiven that would outnumber the Shaw vs Hayden Force Ghost debate threads by about 50 to 1.

    Vader/Anakin's fate was always somewhat inevitable by the time of ROTJ - there was never any chance of him accompanying Han on some mission in Episode VII ("Black One to the Falcon, wheeze, hiss, you hearing me loud and clear, good buddy, wheeze hiss?" "Loud and clear, Iron Face, got your speech ready for the wedding next week? Or should I be calling you 'Dad'?").
  13. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Is it a bad sign that now I really want to read a sequel to RoTJ Infinities? :D
  14. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Maybe there'll be a 'Star Wars Episode VII: White Picket Fences and Burgers - Infinities'.

    http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1501522/star-wars-emperor-lucas-speaks.jhtml
    So it'd have to centre around Ep VII's main conflict of Luke getting drunk at the side of the pool and giving Han a heap of stick about kissing Leia first, the B story being about who defiled the master bathroom's toilet (it was Artoo, and just oil anyway).

    Oh, crap, forgot - EPISODE VII SPOILERS!!!!
  15. Yanksfan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 5
    I'd actually watch that. But then again, I'm demented.
    Seagoat likes this.
  16. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    The Rebels might have tried to kill him
  17. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    They (other than Leia, Han, and maybe Wedge), probably would have been somewhat suspicious that Luke had either gone insane or had turned to the Dark Side.
  18. sharkymcshark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2013
    star 2

    Fortunately Leland Chee isn't around to add this to the Holocron
  19. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Anakin would stand trial for his crimes and his punishment would be met through them. Luke would defend his father, though, since he believes in second chances. Afterwards, if Anakin isn't executed or imprisoned, I'd wager he'd be allowed to help Luke rebuild the Jedi Order. Though he would be watched to make sure that he could be trustworthy. He would ultimately have to prove himself trustworthy, though not everyone would ever trust him. Much less forgive him for his crimes.
  20. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    I very much doubt Luke would have taken Vader back to Endor, or at least directly to the Ewok party (dance, Vader, dance!). Doesn't look good that he's approaching in (presumably) the Emperor or Vader's shuttle- but to have Vader himself on board? They wouldn't have stood much of a chance unless Leia & Solo directly intervened- and I mean with epic persuasion to keep the troops from opening fire.

    Luke's best option would be to take the shuttle to a neutral location and get Vader the hell out of that suit and into a compatible unit that is not recognizable before strolling back to the Alliance with Ani in tow. Despite the redemption of Anakin, there's really no way he could integrate back into society either with the Rebels or Imperial sympathizers. Like Kenobi & Yoda- he'd have to be in a self-imposed exile.
  21. mute90 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2012
    I don't think caring for your loved ones is a violation if the caring allows for the betterment of them and not for yourself. I do think Anakin reached that point with Luke. However, all Anakin had at the time of his death was Luke and the thought of Leia. He had tossed everything else aside. If he could love them unselfishly, then he could be selfless.

    I find it hard to accept that his many flaws would be healed. In death? Yes. Perhaps they were. They'd be scars from the life he no longer lived. In life? I doubt it. At most, I'd expect them to be stitched with the real possibility of popping. In regards to his politics, I do agree that he wouldn't have supported another Empire. Even without Palpatine, he had himself as an example of how power or the pursuit of power could corrupt and destroy a single person. He saw the corruption of the Republic too, though. He saw how slow and ineffective a democratic process could be. I don't think he'd support the creation of a New Republic. If anything, I think he'd support military government.
    thedarkbeckons likes this.
  22. Yanksfan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 5
    I don't know what *would've* happened, but a Leia/Vader confrontation would've been fascinating to watch. And I'm sure she would've demanded he be held accountable for his actions.
    mute90 and Kenneth Morgan like this.
  23. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1

    Do we know that the Rebels executed prisoners? The war with the Empire would still be ongoing. He would have been treated as a prisoner-of-war, or even a defector, would he not?
    Dak Oolron likes this.
  24. squir1y Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2003
    star 2
    I could see him pulling an Earl Hickey and making a list of all the bad things he's done and going around the galaxy trying to cross them off. Star Wars: Episode VII: My Name is Anakin. :D
  25. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "....sorry for torturing you. But when daddy asks for the location of the Rebel Base, you don't sass-mouth."
    Dak Oolron, Yanksfan and Iron_lord like this.
Moderators: Darth_Nub, MOC Yak Face