PT What would you add/subtract to make the Prequels better?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by DarthEmpron, Sep 7, 2012.

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  1. katefan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Well, I can see Obi-Wan wearing the same stuff as a ghost that he wore when he died, but you got me on the Ghost Anakin thing.

    And I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree where the Topless Robot video is concerned. Personally I don't think The Phantom Menace is that good a movie. It is the best of the three prequels but that is not saying much.
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I don't have much to say on the idea of an Obi-Wan/Padme romance that wouldn't involve a lot of non-TOS-friendly words. And in TPM, when Obi-Wan is 25 and Padme is 14? There's a word for that, it starts with "pedo-" and ends with "-philia."

    Even if it were to happen post-TPM, I hate love triangles the way Sidious hates Jedi. Order 66 on all love triangles I say.

    The tip of the iceberg on how wrong I would find such a plot point: the ANH Vader/Obi-Wan duel would be completely ruined for me if I were forced to imagine Vader thinking "You ****ed my wife, you *******."

    Star Wars is not Guiding Light or General Hospital. Or Twilight.

    There was plenty that happened to piss Anakin off, even if the situations in question were not all the Jedi's fault as he perceived them to be. No need to add some Desperate-Housewives-style bull**** plot point to give him something else to piss him off.
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  3. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Explain Anakin's father more, grandfather Skywalker, aka the Force. We know Anakin didn't have a human father and had a miraculous birth, which was kind of awesome. Luke and Leia are grandchildren of the Force, 25% divine. Vader had no father. But the movies don't tell us whether or not the Force itself conceived him, kind of like the chosen one created by the force, or if Palpatine and/or his sith master plageius used the darkside of the force to create him. They tell us he was a demigod type being, but they never explicitly say if the sith were involved in the force creating him or not.

    Maybe give anakin an apprentice

    Padme should've been a Jedi. It makes more sense if they fall in love that way.

    Get rid of the terrible dialogue in attack of the clones, mostly the love story dialogue.

    Padme should never have died of a broken heart. It was a very bad idea. Anakin's force choke should have been her cause of death, not losing the will to live. Padme gave birth to Luke and Leia, she wouldn't live for her kids?

    Get rid of the boring political scenes and dialogue.

    Make the death star much more prominent to the plot. For instance, have padme, mace windu, the jedi order, the galactic public, know about it. It would make the bad guys be established as bad very quickly, rather than the Jedi not liking the Sith just because they're sith.

    The clone wars. The Separatist idea wasn't a good idea. It should have had an invasion from another galaxy or a certain faction of different bad guys within the republic. The Separatist storyline seemed to political, rather than just a simple space adventure movie.

    Have anakin use force lightning, before he got the robotic suit.

    Show alderaan more.

    Show han solo's home planet, corellia.

    Include young han solo.

    Include an underwater planet, with the mon calamari squid aliens, not gungans. It seemed out of place. Take the whole underwater naboo theme, create a new planet, after all, it's an entire galaxy that has lots of planets, and put that same setting on a different planet, inhabited by the Mon Calamari. An aquatic planet, a 100% waterworld, with squid aliens, seems awesome.

    Get rid of jar jar, or maybe not. It's fine if he looks like a cute alien, just don't make him act silly and annoying.

    Maybe Vader gets a red lightsaber earlier on

    Explain the origins and the nature of the sith order more, and their past. The movies hinted they ruled the galaxy in the past, but that was never elaborated upon.

    Explain Darth Plageius's backstory more.

    Explain the emperor's backstory more.

    Show more darkside powers, and also some extremely powerful lightside powers, that Anakin could use as a good Jedi.

    Get rid of the boring trade federation, keep nute gunray and the lizard men aliens, but change their storyline and history. Cool looking aliens, their story was boring. Trade federations just aren't epic. Merge that with the clone wars.

    Make the clone wars start much earlier on.

    Show less of little kid Anakin.

    Maybe show the space angels that Anakin was talking about.
  4. katefan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    But in the guy's explanation Anakin is older, Obi-Wan's padawan at this point. I would assume his idea would have been for Padme to be older as well. Unless Anakin and Ob-Wan are chasing jail bait?

    And we had a love triangle in the original series between Luke, Leia and Han for a while so it is not like there is anything new there. Heck, it even went as far as 'Jedi when Han misinterpreted what Luke and Leia were talking about.
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Neither Anakin nor Obi-Wan need to be chasing anyone in TPM (and no, Anakin was not "chasing" Padme, a 9-year-old boy who finds a girl pretty is not "chasing"). And without the guy stating it specifically, I'm not assuming that he changed Padme's age. She was 14 in TPM, Obi-Wan is 25. In our world that makes people call the police.

    And the love triangle in ANH and ESB both sucked and was unnecessary. I was thrilled when ROTJ put that ridiculous daytime-soap subplot to rest by establishing that Luke and Leia were siblings.

    I'm not sure why anyone would think an Anakin/Obi-Wan/Padme love triangle would add something to Star Wars, unless the addition is supposed to draw in Twilight fans.
  6. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Ephebophilia, technically, but point taken.
  7. katefan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    But if the guy's suggestion were taken then he would be keeping the Anakin/Padme relationship but be making Anakin older in the first film, which would avoided the one point that many people hated about the movie and that was the utterly annoying kid. TPM was a kid-oriented show and a lot of people disliked it, much like people hated Ewoks in 'Jedi.

    And there is nothing wrong with a little romance in Star Wars if it is done properly. Sadly Lucas had no idea how to handle how to write relationships, be it with two people or three.

    The point the guy was trying to make was to give Anakin a greater reason to turn to the dark side and jealousy certain is a good motivation. Saving his unborn child(ren), thinking they are at threat because of a future vision is just...weak. I do not think there was much of anything written well in the second trilogy, from Jar-Jar to Vader screaming "Nnnnnnooooooo!" melodramatically.
  8. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Li'l Ani was less annoying (to me, yes) than a good part of AoTC Anakin.
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Ugh...this is not directed at you, more at the person who made the proposal in the first place, but that sounds like an extremely sexist argument to me. "The man should be older than the woman"? Really?

    I'd actually say he had "no idea how to handle relationships" if he thought a love triangle--another love triangle--would be a good idea. Love triangles do not constitute "a little romance," they are lame attempts to stir up pointless drama by making one of the characters, usually the woman, wishy-washy at best, spineless and whiny at worst. See: Bella in the Twilight saga.

    An Anakin/Obi-Wan/Padme triangle would do nothing but diminish the characters of all three of them, by depriving Anakin of one of the stable aspects of his life in the Clone Wars era (the novels really touch on this, about how Padme was the only one around whom he felt comfortable being himself), by making Obi-Wan an ***hole who would steal the love of his best friend's life, and by making Padme a spineless skank.

    I've never seen a love triangle story that didn't make me impatient with the character who was playing two people (again, usually the woman playing two men). Stop talking about your "feewings" and **** or get off the pot. Choose one, or decide that you can't make a choice.

    At least the Han/Leia/Luke "triangle" was very limited in scope, and even as a young age I could tell that Leia would make up her mind pretty quickly once she knew that both men felt for her, as opposed to dragging it out to the point where Han and Luke actually had time to be jealous of each other. And I still didn't like that triangle, as I mentioned, I was much happier when Luke was established as Leia's brother and therefore there was no question, she and Han could just get on with it.

    You're not selling me on the benefits of love triangles by calling them "a little romance." I like a little romance in Star Wars myself, which is why I really liked both AOTC and ROTJ.

    Um, no, it isn't. Wanting to save the one he loves from death is damn good motivation, especially given what Anakin had been through before.

    That isn't what happened. And I really liked the motivation we got--he had the vision of his mother dying, the mother from whom he had been abruptly separated at a very young age and had not seen since, and that vision came true. He has a subsequent vision of his wife--the only other person he loved that much--dying in childbirth, so of course he is going to be desperate to do anything (literally anything, including selling his soul to the devil) to keep her death from happening.

    A character falling to darkness because he/she wants to be more powerful than death, has been done in multiple stories. It's a fairly common theme, and one I really like.

    But you're calling a Twilight-esque love triangle "well written"?
  10. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Anakinfan, I think you missed the highlighted:

    I don't think it was suggested making Anakin older than Padme to be make the romance more plausible, but to avoid the kid actor annoying the folks who were annoyed by him by skipping the young 'un.

    But other than perhaps missing that mark, you know I agree with you.
  11. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I loved that so-called "annoying" kid. He was cute and sweet. A genius too--he built both a protocol droid and a podracer out of spare parts.

    I'll take Anakin as a kid over any proposed alternate storyline that involves a skanky invertebrate Padme who whined while Anakin and Obi-Wan snarl at each other like vampires and werewolves.
  12. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    [face_rofl]^:)^

    I'm not sure this is an either/or scenario, but the one you wrote is chilling. And, of course, not everyone found li'l Ani annoying (just like with Jar Jar).
  13. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Show flashbacks of the emperor's sith master.

    Explain the history of the sith, the revenge they want, them ruling the galaxy in ancient times, the sith 1000 years ago, etc.

    Give anakin/vader as a sith, but before the suit, force lightning.

    Have an intergalactic invasion, rather than Seperatists.
  14. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    1. Humanize Anakin. Get rid of the "he just appeared in my womb one day" and the "Chosen One" prophecy. This is one aspect of the PT that I think just seems forced, no pun intended! There was no reason to go this far to make Anakin "a special case". Luke became a special case with nothing more than a tragic parental backstory and being raised by relatives on the farm.
    2. Part of the above (as many have said) start with an older Anakin, at least Luke's age.
    3. Clone Wars already ramping up as Ep I starts, cut to the chase.
    4. DO NOT REVEAL Anakin is Vader. Make this only something to be guessed at. How?

    In the PT there is already a villain called Darth Vader.
    He is the strongman for the guy (most likely Palpatine), who is leading the power-hungry systems to help build an Empire.
    He is masked in the "traditional armor of the Sith", perhaps there are even many such warriors (or at least a dark knights of the round table cadre of them).
    He is most likely not a cyborg but uses the armor for intimidation, tradition, protection. And survival in harsh conditions, this needs to happen at some point to establish that it can save him in moments of near death.
    He becomes Anakin's nemesis and as Anakin moves towards the dark side, he becomes his competition to move up the ranks.
    In a duel (near a volcano/cliffs/lava) he defeats this Vader who falls but lands on a cliff far below. Appears dead. Some of his armor shatters and lays around him.
    Kenobi arrives or whatever and now battles Anakin and Anakin eventually falls into said volcano/lava. Kenobi assumes he's dead.
    Sometimes later, perhaps after Kenobi has fled, met up with Anakin's wife etc to deliver the news, we, the audience, see a wounded but partially armored "Vader" (helmet and other parts) crawling from the ledge into a cave perhaps where he is greeted by the Emperor who says something suitably evil and ambiguous about being his servant and that he will help him if he promises to do his bidding and wipe out the Jedi. This "Vader" agrees.
    Little do we know that this Vader is Anakin who gravely injured managed to pull on the better part of the armour of the dead Vader in order to survive his horrible injuries (from the fall, lightsabre wounds and the extreme heat of the volcano).
    Thus the reveal in ESB can still work (even if some who never saw these films could have guessed, still fun!) and explains why Anakin ends up with the mantle Darth Vader...rather than having Palpatine pull it out of the universes bee-hind! And the armor itself...rather than having Palpatine pull it out of his closet of evil looking costumes!

    Obviously this is just a skeletal idea.
    Last edited by sinkie, Oct 21, 2012
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  15. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    Obviously this would only have worked had the prequels been made first.
  16. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    Since I loved the prequels, there's not a lot that needs to be changed IMHO

    In TPM I would remove the planet core scene as Jar Jar is genuinely annoying there and it serves no real purpose storywise anyway. I would also remove Anakin's yippees and what not when he's flying the Naboo fighter and have him more focused and serious as he was when pod racing.

    In AOTC I would remove the scene where Anakin is dreaming about his mother as I think it looks kinda dodgy and again is not really necessary. I would also shorten the conveyer belt scene and take out all the stuff with threepio in the arena because it's just not that funny. But then I've always thought that threepio is a million times more annoying than Jar Jar anyway.

    In ROTS I would take out the infamous "Nooooooooooooo!" and expand on the whole Qui Gon/force ghost thing.

    That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I watched ROTS again yesterday and loved it just as much as I did on day of release.
    Last edited by Mnhay27, Oct 21, 2012
  17. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    What? Why? I'm actually proposing this because they were NOT made first. So that, as a 1-6 saga the reveal of Vader as Luke's dad would still be, in part, secret. But don't get me wrong, I don't mean a 100 foolproof secret, but one that even upon multiple viewings still functions as "in-story reveal", just as other aspects of films with reveals continue to have this function even when you do know. I have trouble putting it into words. But I mean that as an unfolding story there would be certain things revealed in time and not known in advance. I find that the way the PT is constructed, one can really only watch the OT in an "ironic" way now. Of course, this happens anyway, but I just like the idea of treating Vader/Anakin as a secret revealed only in Ep V more interesting and more "serial adventure". More fun, ultimately. We're going to find out anyway, and in this day and age you'll find out in a weekend if you sit down to watch all 6 with your kids. So this way at the end of Ep III your kid (or you as "playing along with the game") believe Anakin died and Vader survived. So Kenobi in Ep IV seems to be telling the truth still to an extent and the I am your father is more of a fun reveal.
  18. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    Why? Because there's not a human being alive who doesn't know that Vader Is luke's father - whether they've seen the movies or not. As an example, when I met my wife about 10 years ago, she'd never watched Star Wars in her life. She still knew. As does everyone else.
    Last edited by Mnhay27, Oct 21, 2012
  19. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    That isn't strictly true...I didn't know Anakin was Vader so watching the prequels was quite the experience. But regardless, there's a better reason for having the PT play out as it did rather than try to conceal Vader's identity: it's the better plot twist. What I mean is, familial revelations are a dime a dozen these days, so even for the few people like me who don't know about them, they're not all that shocking. Much more shocking, is watching one of the protagonists fall so hard and so deeply into evil. There's exceedingly few works that actually tackle this and carry the idea through -- of watching a character who played the role of the hero transform into the villain. Works accessible to children are especially rare in this regard.

    Vader's revelation to Luke in ESB, in my opinion, can't really compare with the power of watching Anakin unravel in ROTS. It's really not a contest for me.
  20. Mnhay27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    Obviously I was exagerating but I'm still surprised that you didn't know. The "I am your father" scene has got to be one of the most heavily referenced and frequently parodied scenes in cinematic history.
    Last edited by Mnhay27, Oct 21, 2012
  21. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I think the reason I didn't know could be down to a couple of factors:

    --My parents are foreign, and Star Wars wasn't as huge of a pop cultural influence where they grew up as it was in the States (especially for my father who hates science fiction and fantasy)
    --None of my friends were really into Star Wars. We all adored Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings when it came out, so Star Wars was never really on my radar as a kid (I actually didn't see them until my early teens)
    --I don't remember any of the build-up for the films at all really. ROTS is the only one I have some memories of where I remember people talking about being excited to see it and I remember a mother wrote in Time magazine how she was upset with George Lucas for making it PG-13, but that's really it
  22. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Keep anakin's immaculate conception. I loved that idea. It made darth vader be the son of the Force, and Luke and leia grandchildren of the force, with, literally, only three grandparents. Anakin/vader having no father seems to be very cool. I know it's cliche and messiah-like, but that's the whole appeal of it. The famous james earl jones cyborg samurai is the Chosen One, that's cool. A fallen messiah. Also, the Force has religious connotations already, a miraculous birth/conception would make it even more.

    Also, "Luke i am your father". Rather than give darth vader a father, why not be creative and ironic and make him have no father. It's kind of ironic and interesting that way.
  23. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    I would have made the death star more prominent to the plot, and the story more focused on that. Like have padme and the jedi know about it, instead of just making the emperor evil for the sake of being evil and creating a new form of government. Make him a classic villain, rather than a political villain. It's more epic that way.
  24. sinkie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2004
    star 1
    I get people like it the way it is, I also get it wouldn't necessarily be a shocker.

    I'm saying I would have preferred they "play that game" with the style of story. So the secret is played as a secret even if a) you might be able to guess at it based on the proposed ending above and b) you're not living under a rock.

    Still I like the idea of it playing out as a "serial" drama with cliffhangers and such. I guess since I'm hardly married to the PT, not really buying Anakin's fall, nor appreciating the tone of how it happened, what I imagine above really works for me regardless of whether anyone would be actually suprised in ESB.

    Also, I agree, DS more prominent as Lord Tyrannus says: In fact, have one of the main points of the PT is that Kenobi is actively trying to prevent the creation of this super weapon. He thinks he has, little does he know he failed, the plans or whatever survived. So that in ANH his shock at seeing it and his "That's no moon, it's a space station!" would read more as "OMG, they did it! We thought we stopped them! But we didn't!" One time watching that scene I pretended that this scenario had happened in the PT and it felt much heavier, like Kenobi knew this was very very bad news and realized all the sacrifice in the past was for nothing.
    Last edited by sinkie, Oct 21, 2012
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I love this idea, and I also like the idea from your previous post about hiding Anakin's identity as Vader by having Vader as just the name of Sidious' apprentice.

    And yes, please, no Chosen One prophecy or immaculate conception, as I've mentioned before.
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