Lit What would you guys change or keep about Jacen's fall or where would you take him as a character?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by tylrkrby, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    The way I see it bringing balance to the Force isn't a permanent measure anyways. It doesn't change the nature of every being in the galaxy, it doesn't destroy the potential for evil. It was thrown out of balance once, it can happen again.
  2. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    It seems rather trumped up to have this Chosen One produced by the midi-chlorians if the Force is just going to lose balance a decade later. Or if it won't ever regain balance at all, as it were.

    The best fix is that the ritual was lost when the Banite Sith were destroyed, and that future moments of imbalance are fleeting and not requiring of a Chosen One to correct.

    The idea wouldn't be as stupid in Apocalypse if Luke didn't say that the Jedi and Sith would keep the balance.
  3. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Balance is definitely NOT between Jedi and Sith.
  4. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Allana already knew that from Fury anyway.......
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  5. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Kun and Ragnos couldn't cause trouble, they were alive-but-dead. Lumiya was just an Emperor's Hand, she was only a self-proclaimed Sith (though IIRC Vader did train her, making her a logical heir). Hett...wouldn't he still have been amongst the Vong as of ROTJ? Or did he escape that early?
  6. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Well yeah. I'm not arguing that the Force wasn't put into balance. Just that it was a very special case that did require the Chosen One and that any other Sith, Dark Jedi, or major threat afterwards doesn't invalidate it in any way.




    He'd be on Korriban I believe, training with Xoxxann. He said that by the time he left there the Emperor and Vader had already been taken care of. So if we're saying the end of ROTJ is the timeframe, he should still be there.
    Last edited by DarthJenari, Aug 3, 2013
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  7. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4

    Excellent and it should. They're not the same, but Kreia's a teacher that was similar to Vergere. She pushed and challenged every single action the Exile took, making sure that she thoroughly thought each one through before and after she made them. She never forced you (The player character) to do anything, merely advised and watched for what path you would take. The Exile spends the entire game looking at different cultures and situations with the Force, as well as learning about what happened to her and some of the greater effects the Mandalorian Wars had on the galaxy. She begins the game as a very damaged individual, a broken mirror if you will, and spends the game putting her pieces back together, while at the same time adding new pieces to herself.

    The question is it what the teacher teaches or what the student learns is an important one and plays a large role in Jacen's growth as a character. Another question however that I think must also be taken into account is which is more important, the journey or the destination? The destination, the goal, the final realization after all is said and done is incredibly important. It's cathartic for everyone involved, and when done properly can be one of the greatest moments in a series (See Jacen in Traitor and TUF, Luke in TAB and TUF, a tragic one for Obi-Wan in ROTS, etc.) That being said, the journey itself is equally important. The trials and tribulations a person goes through to reach said goal. If they were given the answer from the very start, it'd lose all value because they wouldn't have worked for it or learned anything really.

    I think that all of this is done very well with Jacen Solo's character in Traitor, picked up again in Destiny's Way, and brought to a satisfying conclusion in The Unifying Force. Afterwards however, it seems that the authors didn't know what the heck to do with him as a character and from there he just slid downhill, mindraping people, willing to kill anybody, becoming a Sith. SMH, a massive amount of storytelling potential wasted for a mediocre 9 book series.
    GrandMasterKatarn likes this.
  8. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Keeping with the metaphor of the gardener, Jacen in TUF finished killing the weeds. Jacen in the DNT got poked by a rose and got mad. Jacen in LOTF decided the roses were weeds, too, and decided to kill them all. Unfortunate that we have to make this metaphor fit, because it should've ended with "the weeds are gone."
  9. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
  10. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    It is the commentary of the writer and creator.
  11. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
  12. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It wouldn't surprise me if (from Troy Denning's point of view) - it was Stover that subverted his version of Vergere in Star By Star- the one that "betrays Jacen to the Vong".
  13. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Too many people playing too many games of utter obfuscation equals?
  14. tylrkrby Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2013
    star 1
    What the hell?! how did this thread get so long?!?!
  15. tylrkrby Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2013
    star 1
    I am even though I'm Late!!
  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    You're complaining about a thread being successful?
  17. tylrkrby Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2013
    star 1
    Noooo I'm just surprised
  18. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    <Looks at start date for tylrkby>

    Ah, a youngling!
    tylrkrby likes this.
  19. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    I like this idea, except for the "avenge" part: Luke (and most jedi) should be above vengeance and instead take Lumiya down to bring her to court to face justice
  20. xx_Anakin_xx Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2008
    star 4
    I can't read all that came before, but in answer to the thread title, I would have had Luke intercede in the battle between the siblings and redeem Jacen - with the help of his mother - and you could even throw in Han for good measure. As it stands, especially after saving the too far gone to save Thul, I feel that Jacen was given short shrift by his Jedi family and friends. I mean, they can tie bugman up and drag him to the bowels of the temple, secured against all Force trickery and might; but they couldn't do it for Jacen. It is funny because they even wrote in opportunities that I thought would turn into a kidnap and save scenario. But instead, the writers just made the family look selfish and uncaring. It was odd. Then again, I never quite forgave them for killing off Anakin, so this was like a double blow. I haven't been able to read Jaina's character without disdain since...
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  21. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Not have him fall and not have him do a bad rehash of the PT. One and done, there. :p
  22. General Valerian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2013
    star 4
    I find Jacen's fall quite tragic, actually. The way in which the build him up as slowly becoming a very powerful and promising Jedi and then make him fall to the dark side is well done.
  23. newdawn12 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2013
    star 4
    I would have had him stay a jedi, and as for Troy Denning knowing about the ST, the people at licensing found out when we did.
    He'll probably be a case study for what not to do for future writers of the new EU.
    Besides Han, and Leia's movie son would get a lecture from Obi Wan, Anakin, and Yoda, before he tried to be as dumb as Jacen at the end.
    as for redeeming him, he was willing to go further than his grandfather, against his own family, and the people they loved.
    trying to kill his parents on multiple occasions, being willing to sacrifice Ben, , so Mara had to intervene, sacrificing herself, so that Ben could live.
    Killing off a Jedi master, and the wife of a Jedi Grandmaster who could communicate to others after death, making a target for Padawans, to Jedi masters.
    burning Kashyyyk, the home world of Chewbacca, with Chewie's family still there, the being who'd protected his father, fell to save his brother, stood by his fathers side, in adventure after adventure, using a ship named after that brother. As for jaina killing him, lets see, he tried to kill his own family multiple times, knowing they were his family/ Destroyed trillions of lives, killed her master, and aunt, tried to kill her, destroyed their twin bond. She was also a jedi, and jedi fight to protect, he destroyed with the excuse of providing peace, in the end, even his attempt to save Tenel, and Allana was sithlike, it was for his own reasons.

    Vader had no desire to kill Padme, he could have killed Luke, on multiple occasions, he could have killed Han, and Leia, on Bespin, and let Boba Fett kill Chewbacca. He was willing to die at the end to save Luke, but it also ended Palpatine's reign.

    and with leia, even though he tortured her, had he known she was his daughter, he would have acted differently, He had turned to save his whole family, not just Padme, when he became Vader, he mourned not just her loss, but the loss of her, and the child/children.

    Jacen was not Vader 2.0, he was on his way to Sidious territory., and as fotj should, he joined Sidious, not his grandfather.
  24. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Looking back, I think Jacen's fall lost me in The Swarm War, when watching the holorecording of Anakin choking Padme, and instead of thinking, what could make a man act that way he wondered why didn't he control his rage? That was a facepalm-worthy moment, especially when you think about the Jacen in Balance Point who would've broken into uncontrollable sobs and dressed in sackcloth if he even felt a twinge of anger. Sure, Vergere fixed that wussy Jacen, but we don't need DARK LAWD OF THE SIFF Jacen, either. How about what we got in The Unifying Force; a controlled, but happy and willing to use his powers Jacen who would never fall to the dark side but would also do what he had to within his limits to protect what he loved. Where'd that guy go? I wish I could go back to 2005 and slap Denning around a bit. There was still hope to redeem Jacen between Dark Nest and LOTF...
  25. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    i had no problem with his fall, except that he seemed on track as a great and wise jedi in the latter part of the NJO series. But once they did Dark Nest and such i had no problem with it. I think his sith training from Vergere (and it was sith training) and the obsession to recreate the oneness in the force he experienced against Omni led him down that path. I only wish that he would have been redeemed and brought back to the light.