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Lit What would you guys change or keep about Jacen's fall or where would you take him as a character?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by tylrkrby, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    But he did restore balance. It has been outright stated multiple times. Denning just contradicted it.
     
  2. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    Darth Caedus is already called Darth Vader 2.0. So to make the character better you'd give him another similarity to Vader? [face_laugh]
     
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  3. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    First, the idea that Anakin failed to restore balance eliminates the point to his being the Chosen One. Word of God says he did. That being said, if the EU provides a barrier to the idea, it is Palpatine in Dark Empire.

    This can be rationalized in a number of ways, including two separate Emperor's Hands suggesting that it was just an insane clone, as well as the idea that the setback that Palpatine's death at Endor caused in terms of completely putting the Empire off balance in the short term and fragmenting it in the long term was more significant than Han Solo shooting Palpatine in the back. Plus there's the TNEC/Darth Plagueis metaphysical ritual that the Banite Sith performed, which I'm not all that fond of because there's not really a mechanism for Anakin to undo it, unless wiping out the Banite Sith and Force ghosting accomplishes it somehow.
     
  4. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    There's a small chance that Denning knew of the ST when he wrote that too.
     
  5. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I was joking.
     
  6. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    No, there's no way he knew about the ST when he wrote Apocalypse. They would not have announced SotJ only to put it into limbo.
     
  7. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I think Denning was trying to justify Caedus and Krayt ruling the galaxy.
     
  8. The Compeer

    The Compeer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 12, 2013
    No, there's no way he knew about the ST when he wrote Apocalypse. They would not have announced SotJ only to put it into limbo.[/quote]

    I think Denning was trying to justify Caedus and Krayt ruling the galaxy.[/quote]


    I'm not sure Kafka could justify that.
     
  9. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    Yeah, and Apocalypse was released early 2012, and the Disney deal didn't go through until late 2012. It is possible it was known of beforehand but I doubt the news would go all the way down to the authors.
     
  10. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Lucas said he began telling people in early 2011. Met with Hamill, Fisher, and McDiarmid to tell them in summer 2011.
     
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  11. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    I sincerely doubt he told Troy Denning.
     
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  12. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    This is what I was thinking. I doubt he told any of the authors. Especially since he wasn't a fan of EU anyways. Georgie doesn't seem to me like the type to get down in the dirt, as it were, with his employees.
     
  13. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    I don't think he told the authors either... but he could have told Sue Rostoni, and she might have given hints to the authors that something was up and the current interpretation of Episode 6's ending can be disputed.
     
  14. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    AFAIK, George has only ever interacted with the authors that wrote the novelizations. Other than that, he approved stuff via yes/no memos. I find it immensely difficult to believed that Del Rey or anyone involved with the literary side knew considering multiple sources have stated that Del Rey is in a holding pattern due to the announcement.

    Plus Denning changed the ending of Crucible due to the sequel trilogy.
     
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  15. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    The first part, maybe. The bolded part, I doubt she'd have suggested that, especially if she didn't know whether or not ST would follow EU or not. Why would she? And why would ROTJ's ending be disputed? Its end is its end, and it canonically happened, regardless of what happens in the ST.
     
  16. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Though, even from an in-universe perspective, it makes sense for some characters to begin questioning if balance was really brought to the Force or not. As long as it's not the author dictating it as a fact, but instead from the voices of the characters. Who would have a point to question it, after everything they've been through since Endor. So while Denning can be blamed for a lot, raising this possibility is not necessarily a bad thing. Even Yoda in ROTS said the prophecy could have been misinterpreted.

    But did we hear the Force itself speak at the end of ROTJ, and declare that it was now balanced? :p The movie itself doesn't comment on it, only Lucas has in the special DVD commentaries, and he no longer owns Star Wars.

    And by "disputed," see above. I mean that it should be ok for characters to question if the Force is really in balance or not, given everything they've went through. They didn't watch Lucas on the DVD commentaries, these things should be allowed to be disputed.
     
  17. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    I agree with that, but when Denning has Luke announcing that Vergere was definitely a Sith infiltrator in Vortex I'm forced to question whether Denning separates character knowledge from exposition.
     
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  18. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    No, she didn't. I've read Traitor multiple times.
     
  19. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    But the way you said it, it sounded like you were saying what happened at the end of ROTJ was disputed. All I'm saying was, you can't dispute that the Sith were gone, at least for the time being.

    Well, I've only read it twice, but yes. She did. I could see that even reading it once.
     
  20. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    "You need not like someone to love him. Love is nothing more than the recognition that two are one. That all is one."
     
  21. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Well, according to the EU, the Lost Tribe were still around on Kesh, and Palpatine's spirit survived :p
     
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  22. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    But the Kesh Sith were not known to the galaxy...and I have nothing to say about Palpatine's spirit, that never should've happened.
     
  23. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    I think there's a bit more going on with balance than the mere existence of the Sith. So long as the Lost Tribe are on Kesh, their influence on the galaxy is null. Palpatine's death at Endor broke his hold on the galaxy.
     
  24. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    And Lumiya was still around, and Hett was still hanging out with Xoxaan's spirit
     
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  25. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Nobody knew about Sidious and Maul before Episode I either, yet they still existed and disrupted the balance. Just saying the only thing ROTJ confirms is that Vader redeemed himself and died, and that Palpatine was killed (at least his body). It doesn't say balance was restored, or even if the Sith were destroyed. That's just the commentary of a guy who no longer owns the movie, and who frequently changed his mind anyways.

    And even if we knew for sure that balance was brought to the Force, I say it certainly makes sense for Luke and the others to question it, with everything they've gone through.

    And the spirits of Exar Kun and Marka Ragnos!
     
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