What would you have done?

That classic situation in ESB.

Your father is asking for your help in defeating the Emperor and restoring peace into the galaxy. You know that he´s a decent guy behind that dark mask and means well in the end. He was just manipulated by a nasty person who is still taking an advantage of him. There is a chance that you could end the war quickly by joining forces and killing the Emperor.

Luke decided that it would be better to die and let the bloody struggle between the rebellion and empire continue for God knows how long, than listen to what his dad had in mind. "Oh well, time to kill (unless something bizarre happens and I manage to survive from this drop) myself and remove an obstacle from the Emperor´s way"

What would you have done in that situation?

 

Without the lightsaber he had no other real options besides joining Vader. He didn't know that things would end up well and Vader is not really a good guy. He just simply has a little good within him. I would've done the same thing as Luke.

-Seldon

 

So you would have killed yourself as well eventough you´d have a chance to stop the Emperor. Why are people so suicidal

 

There was no chance of that happening.
He is not a matter of wanting to kill yourself. It is something which had to be done to stop the Emperor.

-Seldon

 

I would have joined him or let myself be destroyed. No way would I have jumped!
Well, not "joined" but would have gone with him. Buying time, if possible.
Hoping for another miracle.


Obi-Wan should have told him how he cooly went into another Sith's lair and had a little talk with him. The situation isn't quite the same, but I think it's very Jedi-like to rise and meet your destiny, whatever it is.

 

Vader does not just ask Luke to "end this destructive conflict" he asks him to "rule the galaxy as father and son".

He simply wants to chance one dictatorship with another. And like the wise Darth-Seldon says, Luke does not know that Vader is within the reach of salvation. Up to this point Vader has killed Lukes only Mentor and chopped of Lukes hand.


I to would never have joined Vader.

 

In Return of the Jedi, Luke states that he feels good in Vader. He may not feel the same way in The Empire Strikes Back. The only thing he may be feeling is complete confusion.

What does he know of Vader?
According to Obi-Wan
1. He killed Papa Skywalker
2. Helped hunt down the Jedi
3. Is on the Imperial leadership.

According to Vader himself,
1. He is Papa Skywalker
2. He wants to become the only Imperial Leader

So Luke is confused and doesn't know what to believe. He is in denial that what Vader said was true and he has no idea what is true and what is a lie.
He hasn't had time to reflect or to seriosly think about it yet. So he doesn't see good in Vader and won't even completely believe that it is his father.

With all this confusion, all he can do is let go and see where it takes him.

-Seldon

 

Vader does not just ask Luke to "end this destructive conflict" he asks him to "rule the galaxy as father and son".

He simply wants to chance one dictatorship with another. And like the wise Darth-Seldon says, Luke does not know that Vader is within the reach of salvation. Up to this point Vader has killed Lukes only Mentor and chopped of Lukes hand.


I to would never have joined Vader

Exactly I mean Vader already cut off his hands and used the force push to throw him through the window. Also I was reading ESB and Vader tells Luke I have destroyed your family and Luke was like what? Nevertheless Vader blew his chance, Luke was already on his way to becoming a jedi. Nonetheless, Luke is somewhat to blame because he rushed off instead of completing his training. If it been me I wouldve waited and completed my jedi training then went off to face Vader and tell him basically to shove it and stick where the sun dont shine.

 

I'd go.

LUKE: Okay.

VADER: Good choice.

[VADER HELPS LUKE UP]

LUKE: Oh Darth.

VADER: Hmm?

LUKE: I lied.

[LUKE PUSHES VADER TO HIS DOOM]

Why don't they just pretend and when they get the chance, kill them.

 

I don't think Vader would ever expect Luke to join with him on Bespin. It was either take Luke by force or allow him to think about the truth. Vader's intention was probably to reveal the truth and allow the boy to escape with the knowledge.

-Seldon

 

I wouldn't have joined him but I'd have completed my training.

 

You lie and say you're going to join him until you get off that platform then run like hell.

 

Ehehe, I'd be too chicken to do what Luke did. I seem to be lacking in the courage department. Perhaps the best route for someone like myself would be to say yes, I'd join, then try to escape later

 

"I don't think Vader would ever expect Luke to join with him on Bespin. It was either take Luke by force or allow him to think about the truth. Vader's intention was probably to reveal the truth and allow the boy to escape with the knowledge"



I have to disagree that Vader wanted Luke to escape, when vader returns to his Star Destroyer he asks about the hyperdrive on the Millenium Falcon being deactivated.

(Only R2's intervention with that saved Luke,Lando,Leia and Chewbacca from being in Vaders' hands again).

This means he had planned for the contingency that Leia,Chewbacca and potentially Luke would make it to the Falcon.

Also,the carbonite chamber was set up for Luke and only tested on Solo to make sure Luke wouldn't die in the freezing process.

Had Vader suceeded in freezing Luke what exact method of escape would he have devised for Luke then??

Perhaps he would've unfroze Luke before returning to the Emperor and have had the "chat" they had on Bespin.

The offer of removing the Emperor and ruling the Galaxy as father and son was IMO Vaders' plan for freedom from his Master and setting up a Skywalker Dynasty.

Vaders' true loyalties were beginning to become apparent in the latter part of ESB and we see he's not entirely the loyal henchman to the Emperor than previously he put across.

In a twisted way Vader hoped his son would share in his view of ruling as a powerful Dark Jedi-like dictator, this allowing him to have some emotional connection to the past he had denied and at the same time allowing him to bask in the 'glory' and power of the dark-side.

Luke's decision to not join him meant that dream wouldn't happen.

Vader IMO was playing both sides off in that if Luke had've joined him then he would've had a decent shot at removing the Emperor and being his own master and if Luke did not then Vader knew if Luke defied the Emperor then the Emperor wouldn't allow Luke to live thus the status quo of his being the Emperors' lieutenant remained.

 

What would I had done? I would've did the same thing Luke did, and that was not join. Had I of been adopted, I wouldn't join forces with some man who comes up to me and says he is my father. My father? Where the hell have you been the last 21 years of my life? You may be my biological dad, but that does not mean I have any loyalty to you.

This is especially true if he A) just cut off my hand and B) was one of the most hated, despised, powerful and dangerous men in the galaxy.

Join him? Never.

 

I admit I might be a bit hesitant about the whole suicide thing, but if I'm brave enough to come as far as Luke had at that point, I may have very well have made peace with that particular venue already. Join him? No. Blood is binding, but there is always a choice. Vader was manipulated, but only to a slight degree. His actions and decisions are still his own. When he chose to throw away the name Anakin Skyawlker, he chose to discard the good life that went with it.

Personally, I was always interested in just what Luke saw or experienced that made him think there was a decent person still alive somewhere in Vader. I doubt he just woke up and thought, "Hey yo, there's still good in there!" This is part of the reason why I thought the EU novel SOTE was such a waste of potential - lots of room to explore this, but only any real development on the issue on Vader's part.

 

It would have been very tempting to join Vader. That is what the Dark Side can do. But upon weighing all of the options, it is better to die honorably than live with the darkness. I would have done the same thing as Luke did. In my opinion, it would be better to stop living rather than live with myself knowing that I was not strong enough to resist the Dark Side.

 

There are several issues for Luke here...

One, he's confused and doesn't know what to beleive, but he knows that even if Vader is his father, he's still a master of the Dark Side and you don't want to just do anything he says without thinking it all out first.

Two, this is compounded by the fact that his emotions are being tweaked in strange ways, and Luke shows it (he's not able to get past his emotions). He's not thinking clearly, and I beleive he knows that.

Three, he would be very vulnerable to Vader if he went back. Luke isn't a match for Vader at this point. Not yet.

This all adds up to the fact that he'd be extremely vulnerable to being turned at this point if he went with Vader. He's angry, confused, and can't quite defend himself adequately. The only way to get back his center is to not lie, but completely refuse the dark side in an unequivocal manner, saying I'd rather die than go to the Dark Side-- and show it. Which he does. And it works so well, he uses it again, which leads directly to Vader 'waking up' and realizing he's Anakin.