What would you prefer?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by DarthVaderIsAMakem, Jan 14, 2003.

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  1. DarthVaderIsAMakem Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2003
    A CGI character that is too good, or a puppet that is not quite good enough? E.g. a jabba in ROTJ that is quite puppet-like, but still very believable, or a CGI Yoda, e.g. AOTC that is just too perfect, if that makes sense.
  2. Altaira Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2002
    star 4
    A CGI character that is too good.

    It makes it easier to imagine these characters are part of the story.

    Soon as the technology advances, you won?t even need actors!
  3. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    A CGI character that is too good, for me too.

    I wonder if the next generation would complain about such a thing, if they decide to watch SW? They could compare Yodas and decide.
  4. DarthGelatinous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2001
    star 2
    Does this mean that Hayden Christensen isn't a CGI? He's a real actor who drew a paycheck? No way!
  5. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    CG for me too, it can express more emotion on its face, which is the key for me.
  6. JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 1999
    star 5
    CGI gives more freedom. We're in the early days now, and there are going to be a few missteps, but the medium will open doors for sf/f filmmakers that were totally unimaginable before Jar Jar tripped onto the scene.

    So, I'd go for CGI.

    And is there some reason to bring Hayden Christensen into this? That was totally superfluous and nasty.
  7. KenKenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 6
    Star Wars is a classic movie, based upon principles never before seen in the genre of sciene fiction and fantasy. The Old Trilogy defines the story in the way no other can define itself...

    And then Star Wars is a new generation story. Th Prequels show new technology in its prime, with CGI characters and state-of-the-art special effects. Many debate that this is Star Wars in a new and improved state...

    This causes controversy- CGI vs. puppets/actors. The answer is simple:

    CGI is created in order to better enhance the quality of the setting and atmoshpere of the story, as well as contributing to the vast amount of different alien species and ecology that Star Wars has come to represent, and even personify.

    But taking actors out of a movie would make it a cartoon-like feature: a "Toy Story", in a sense. Take out puppets and you take out the reality base within the actual movement and interaction with the characters.

    Yet CGI shows cutting edge concepts, and so it too cannot be disbanded with, for such instances would cause much negating on the Star Wars history.


    Therefore, my opinion on the matter is this:

    Keep actors for main parts and humanoid creatures.

    Keep puppets for species and characters that should look like "slummed" species: like Jabba the Hutt.

    Use CGI in special effects and rare, unorthodox species and characters, to show technology in its prime and better present the flow of environment to the audience.


    Well...that's just my opinion anyways... ;) :p
  8. JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 1999
    star 5
    I think it's an excellent opinion--there's no reason to use CGI where it's not actually an enhancement.

    One place where I've thought it might be useful in a non-sf-y way would be in doing flashbacks or something--a younger version of the older actor could be created by CGI and voiced by a younger actor. That would help create a sense of realism so you don't suspend your disbelief at seeing someone who is obviously totally different.

    (At any rate, to get back to the actual question, the reason I prefer the "too-perfect" CGI is that it's the beginning of a technology and it can only get better, while puppets are a technology that's pretty much as high as it can go. CGI is really just a next generation puppet.)
  9. KenKenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 6
    Jedi Galadriel:

    I agree. Enhancements that are not needed should not be added to with CGI, since that would only tone down the natural effect.

    Then again, like you said, puppets are concluded in their progress in technology, and so using them in high-maintinance scenes wouldn't be as useful as a CGI character. :)


    But, like I said, you can't do away with puppets....what would happen if we were to do away with the Muppets? INSTANT Apocolypse... ;) :p
  10. JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 1999
    star 5
    As with photography and paiting, I think what we'll see is the two starting to be used to do very different things.
  11. DarthWeenie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2002
    star 4
    Puppets are always more real. You never question the fact that they are really there. No matter how limited their expressions are.

    CG is awesome for many things. But characters arent one of them.

    The arena monsters are great for example. But they arent characters. Any special effect that looks like a special effect has failed.

    CG characters are actually a detrement to SW, because they cause you to think of the movie as a movie; they take you out of the experience that a SW movie should be. Instead of thinking of the creatures and ships as real, youre thinking,"Wow! What great CGI! Those ILM guys are geniuses." And they are, but I dont want to think about that DURING the movie. You can always tell when something is CGI.

    There are exceptions to every rule though. While the Kaminoans and Dex are awful, Watto and AOTC Yoda could hardly be more perfect.

    Ive said it before, I dont understand why, but Watto is the only CG character ever, that I cant tell is CG. Why is that?

    Although I love the prequels, I just wish there were less CG characters, and more like the Nemoidians.
  12. Epilogue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2001
    star 2
    The only scene Yoda should have been CGI in is the lightsaber scene in Attack.

    My 2 cents worth.
  13. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    My opinion is that CGI that looks like CGI takes me out of the movie and makes me go "oooh, cool CGI." I like puppets better because if is easier for me to accept since they are actual physical objects. This is also true (for me) with real models and CGI models. When I see ANH:SE I still prefer the physical models for that reason, the CGI looks amazing, but it looks like CGI.

    The CGI I like is the CGI that you don't notice that is CGI (or that you forget) like Gollum, the aliens in Signs and most of the Clonetroopers in EII. This is also true of Yoda, at least in some points of the movie. Still, Yoda for me in most of the movie was one kick ass CGI, which ruined the believability for me.

    That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
  14. JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 1999
    star 5
    I think it's just a question of opinion, not right or wrong. For myself, though I have warmfuzzy feelings for OT Yoda, I never quite shook the "Hey! That's a puppet!" feeling, while with CGI--particularly in a movie where everything was digital--he just looked like everyone else. And with Jar Jar, he just looked like he was in a really well-done costume; if they hadn't publicized that he was all CGI, I probably wouldn't have noticed.
  15. DarthWeenie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2002
    star 4
  16. JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 1999
    star 5
    Nope. I enjoy hearing about the technical stuff, but when it's onscreen, I don't pay much attention to it or question it unless it goes wrong.
  17. debeautimous Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2003
    star 4
    I loved the scene where yoda finally is able to show what a great warrior he is. A puppet could not do it without looking like an episode of the muppets.
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