Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by darth ladnar, Apr 26, 2013.
It depends heavily on the script.
Yeah, I'm afraid this new trilogy will be formulaic. It has to be to retain the feel of Star Wars. But there will be enough room for surprises, so don't fret.
That's kind of a worry for me, though. Because JJ is such a fan, it could mean he'll play it as safe as possible and make a perfectly good film but nothing that takes Star Wars to new and interesting places. Love or hate the prequels, George Lucas was definitely a man who would pander to no one when building his vision. I don't want Episode 7 to just cash in on original trilogy nostalgia, I want it to be a monumental jump in Star Wars storytelling that earns its keep as part of the saga.
True. Thanks to the Spoilers Allowed forums, I'll go into EP VII knowing most of what will happen.
I'm ready for the locked-down 7NSA forum so I don't have to look at 7SA at all.
It doesn't have to be formulaic in order to have the Star Wars feel we all like. To me the SW feel depends on the music, sound effects, spaceships, weapons and the vibe the characters bring. Surprising me and keeping me on the edge of my seat is the best they can do if they want the new films to be at least as good as the OT, if not better.
Given most of the post-ROTJ EU stuff is a re-hash of what happened in the movies I'm not expecting anything new from a post-ROTJ Trilogy
I will say this, that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and that the nature of speculation is both to hope for the best but also to fear the worst. As
@darth ladnar already defended my original post, I won't provide any more reasoning as to why I have concerns, but I will say that I think that after people have watched Into Darkness in the cinemas next month, there will be very valid concerns that crop up here. Not that I think Abrams is a bad director, I in fact think he's a good fit for the job, but as others have mentioned, sticking with an original storyline while staying true to the spirit of the saga is the key here; we don't want a rehash of what made the original films so popular, we want something new to dig our teeth into.
I agree heavily with this sentiment. JJ being such a big fan is a double-edged sword. He'll likely try to do his best to appease the fanbase with his treatment, that I fear much of the originality will be lost. He's good at directing characters, though, and I look forward to seeing if he can succeed in getting the audience to care about the characters in a way that GL's originals did not always do very successfully. Recall that Dave Filoni was also a big SW fanboy, yet look how TCW was received by many fans. I know that Lucas was as much responsible for the questionable decisions to overwrite certain elements of the EU, and there were many stories that probably should not have come to pass. In trying to reference the saga continuously in many of the episodes, Filoni also gave some fans SW fatigue. There's homage, then there is lack of ideas. As I said before, it's a fine line that Abrams and Arndt must cross to enable the story to stay fresh while being true to the spirit of the films before them.
We need more darker films where the good guys lose and everything isn't OK at the end. If Disney goes that route it will be with Zach Snyder at the helm. Probably not going to happen with the new trilogy.
Perhaps with some of the spin offs. I'd love some darker, serious star wars.
Some of my first posts on this site were to push that idea, posted the Superman preview as an example of the 'feel' the new films could take. People threw internet tomatoes at me, now everyone is saying how great the new Superman film looks.
This is why I'm hoping his role as a creative consultant is a major one. The problems with the PT had little to do with the overall story arc, which was quite good.
Lucas was like an abusive father with the PT. You're suppose to love the guy but he won't stop hitting ya. I think he learned his lesson which is why he's stepping away. All he had to do was step back a little during the PT. Let some other ideas permeate.
You're missing the point. It's impossible to say that you were "rightfully" concerned until your concerns have actually been proven. You can be rationally concerned, or the like, but the word "rightful" carries an extreme strong connotation of confirmation. Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but the amount of times I've seen people passing sentence on EVII before there's even been a cast announced is just absurd, so I think this kind of thing should be pointed out.
I also, again, think that people are assigning way too much responsibility to Abrams for the film's prospects anyway. Again, he's the director - not the writer and not the "showrunner", at least to the same degree as he is with Trek. I'd put several people before him in my list of records to pay attention.
People know big directors' styles. We know what a Lucas/Spielberg flick will be. We know what a Michael Bay flick will be. And we know what a JJ Abrams flick will be.
A lot of us, having seen Trek 09, are VERY concerned about what Ep VI will be like: a short ton of fake lens flares, nausea inducing "shaky cam" space VFX shots, kilometer-wide-and-millimeter-deep plot and characterization, etc.
I'm sorry, but comments like this are incredibly distasteful. To compare not liking a film to child abuse is the height of fanboy stupidity.
In regards to the OP, well made (perhaps very well made, but I'm not so sure) but formulaic is exactly what I'm expecting from ST. Everyone will leave saying "wow, that was so much better than the prequels", but nothing will really expand the rich mythology that has long been the core of what makes Star Wars so engaging.
My ideal Episode VII (and VIII and IX for that matter) will have me rushing home from the cinema to watch Episodes I-VI again, just to see a completely different story emerge as a result of the ST. Does that make sense to people? I want the ST to show me the Saga in a completely new light.
Depends on the formula. If we get something that heavily pours on the OT nostalgia, I'll likely go my normal Abrams route and see the film once, mildly enjoy it in a few places, and then never have the desire to watch it again.
I find the above statement or GL "raped my childhood" or other statements like these trying to hit GL in a bizarrely personal way.
First, all GL did was make some bad films in your opinion, not really the greatest crime. Second, child abuse is pretty common and even rape is surprisingly common considered what a heinous act it is. Think what it's like for someone who was really abused by his parent hearing his childhood compared to a mediocre film. Geez, I mean, there are some kids who read these forums and some of them have abusive parents right now. Think what it'd be like for them. What you're doing is unfair to GL and it's unfair to people who really suffer in the real world.
BTW, in an ongoing poll in the Saga Forum, the ROTS is a close 2nd behind the TESB; then, there's a big gap and ANH and ROTJ are near each other at 3rd and 4th; then there's another big gap and TPM and ATOC are at the bottom. ROTS is the only prequel to be more highly rated than a OT film on rottentomates (higher than ROTJ) and despite all the anti-prequel hate, ROTS's imdb rating is higher than almost all the Bond films and almost all non-Nolan directed comic books films. So, one of the films that you equate with child abuse is actually well thought of among the fans AND the general public, meaning that most people don't agree with opinion, let alone your feeling that seeing the film was so horrible that it was like being having blows rained down on your head.
PS, I think the only lesson GL has learned is that making another SW trilogy would be hard given that he'd be almost 80 when it's over. He has other projects he want to with his life before he dies, like give away his $4 billion in philanthropic endeavors.
(PPS, I do happen to agree with you on your 1st 2 posts, though clearly not on the 3rd, or at least not the way you express yourself in it.)
There's something to be said for formulae; often they are used because they are successful. E.G. AC-DC basically comes out with the same album every 5 years or so; I'm sure to them, as artists and musicians they get bored but their fans eat it up.
The magic of Star Wars, especially ANH back in 1977, was the lived-in look of the movie. An almost documentary-type approach. Like someone just grabbed a camera and started filming. Some of that magic dwindled in the next two installments, especially in ROTJ. I would LOVE to feel that "magic" again in E7. To be honest, I felt a little of that old-school nostalgia/magic in Super 8. Seriously. If JJ can capture that essence of Star Wars, I'd be a happy camper. I'll settle for a strong, well-acted movie at the minimum too.
This is a tough question...of course in the ideal world, we fans "want it all" (a well-made film that is also original and "feels like SW") ...but if forced to choose between something that would have serious weaknesses in some areas but still would still "feel" like the SW universe I've come to know from the first six films and something that was "better done" but felt "generic" or somehow "not SW enough," I'd have to go with the first option. I guess I would base this on my feelings about TPM and AotC. For me, those films had serious weaknesses, but yet they are still "Star Wars-y" enough for me to enjoy them overall even though there are aspects of each that I think are pretty awful (some of the Anakin scenes/dialogue and everything Jar Jar in TPM; the romantic scenes/dialogue between Padme and Anakin in AotC). There's just something I love about the SW universe and the characters, even when some parts of a film are poorly executed.
The main thing for me with the new films is that they will have to connect in some _meaningful_ way with the themes and characters of the PT and OT, or I'm afraid I won't be "drawn in" enough to whatever the new stories will be. And I am not very optimistic that this will turn out to be the case without GL's direct involvement--but I certainly hope to be proven wrong!
If you can't discuss the post, don't reply -Darth Boba
Time to take a break. No personal attacks. -mod edit
Again, you're misunderstanding my point. Saying that you are "rightfully" concerned carries strong connotations of having been proven correct. Unless they're claiming to have prophetic powers, no one on this forum can genuinely say they're "rightfully" concerned about Episode VII.
I know on one level this is just linguistic nitpicking, but even if it's unintentional, I think the wording here is very demonstrative of an attitude around here that I think needs to be fought. The degree of prejudgment that's occurring before we know anything about Episode VII - including, also again, whether it should really be called a "JJ Abrams film" instead of, say, a "Michael Arndt film" - is simply insane.