Discussion What would your reaction be to the next SW film if it's very formulaic but very well-made?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by darth ladnar, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. spicer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2012
    star 3
    It depends heavily on the script.
  2. Sum-Wan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2013
    star 3
    Yeah, I'm afraid this new trilogy will be formulaic. It has to be to retain the feel of Star Wars. But there will be enough room for surprises, so don't fret.
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  3. DeviantSpirit Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    That's kind of a worry for me, though. Because JJ is such a fan, it could mean he'll play it as safe as possible and make a perfectly good film but nothing that takes Star Wars to new and interesting places. Love or hate the prequels, George Lucas was definitely a man who would pander to no one when building his vision. I don't want Episode 7 to just cash in on original trilogy nostalgia, I want it to be a monumental jump in Star Wars storytelling that earns its keep as part of the saga.
    Circular_Logic likes this.
  4. Buddha Fett Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 1999
    star 4

    True. Thanks to the Spoilers Allowed forums, I'll go into EP VII knowing most of what will happen. :D
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'm ready for the locked-down 7NSA forum so I don't have to look at 7SA at all.
  6. spicer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2012
    star 3
    It doesn't have to be formulaic in order to have the Star Wars feel we all like. To me the SW feel depends on the music, sound effects, spaceships, weapons and the vibe the characters bring. Surprising me and keeping me on the edge of my seat is the best they can do if they want the new films to be at least as good as the OT, if not better.
  7. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Given most of the post-ROTJ EU stuff is a re-hash of what happened in the movies I'm not expecting anything new from a post-ROTJ Trilogy
    Vthuil likes this.
  8. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    I will say this, that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and that the nature of speculation is both to hope for the best but also to fear the worst. As @darth ladnar already defended my original post, I won't provide any more reasoning as to why I have concerns, but I will say that I think that after people have watched Into Darkness in the cinemas next month, there will be very valid concerns that crop up here. Not that I think Abrams is a bad director, I in fact think he's a good fit for the job, but as others have mentioned, sticking with an original storyline while staying true to the spirit of the saga is the key here; we don't want a rehash of what made the original films so popular, we want something new to dig our teeth into.

    I agree heavily with this sentiment. JJ being such a big fan is a double-edged sword. He'll likely try to do his best to appease the fanbase with his treatment, that I fear much of the originality will be lost. He's good at directing characters, though, and I look forward to seeing if he can succeed in getting the audience to care about the characters in a way that GL's originals did not always do very successfully. Recall that Dave Filoni was also a big SW fanboy, yet look how TCW was received by many fans. I know that Lucas was as much responsible for the questionable decisions to overwrite certain elements of the EU, and there were many stories that probably should not have come to pass. In trying to reference the saga continuously in many of the episodes, Filoni also gave some fans SW fatigue. There's homage, then there is lack of ideas. As I said before, it's a fine line that Abrams and Arndt must cross to enable the story to stay fresh while being true to the spirit of the films before them.
    Last edited by Circular_Logic, Apr 27, 2013
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  9. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    We need more darker films where the good guys lose and everything isn't OK at the end. If Disney goes that route it will be with Zach Snyder at the helm. Probably not going to happen with the new trilogy.
  10. spicer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2012
    star 3
    Perhaps with some of the spin offs. I'd love some darker, serious star wars.
    Last edited by spicer, Apr 27, 2013
  11. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Some of my first posts on this site were to push that idea, posted the Superman preview as an example of the 'feel' the new films could take. People threw internet tomatoes at me, now everyone is saying how great the new Superman film looks. ;)
  12. BarkingFrog Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2009
    star 2
    This is why I'm hoping his role as a creative consultant is a major one. The problems with the PT had little to do with the overall story arc, which was quite good.
    FRAGWAGON likes this.
  13. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Lucas was like an abusive father with the PT. You're suppose to love the guy but he won't stop hitting ya. I think he learned his lesson which is why he's stepping away. All he had to do was step back a little during the PT. Let some other ideas permeate.
  14. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    You're missing the point. It's impossible to say that you were "rightfully" concerned until your concerns have actually been proven. You can be rationally concerned, or the like, but the word "rightful" carries an extreme strong connotation of confirmation. Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but the amount of times I've seen people passing sentence on EVII before there's even been a cast announced is just absurd, so I think this kind of thing should be pointed out.

    I also, again, think that people are assigning way too much responsibility to Abrams for the film's prospects anyway. Again, he's the director - not the writer and not the "showrunner", at least to the same degree as he is with Trek. I'd put several people before him in my list of records to pay attention.
    Last edited by Vthuil, Apr 27, 2013
  15. Kev Snowmane Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2013
    star 2
    Bull!

    People know big directors' styles. We know what a Lucas/Spielberg flick will be. We know what a Michael Bay flick will be. And we know what a JJ Abrams flick will be.

    A lot of us, having seen Trek 09, are VERY concerned about what Ep VI will be like: a short ton of fake lens flares, nausea inducing "shaky cam" space VFX shots, kilometer-wide-and-millimeter-deep plot and characterization, etc.
  16. Jedi Comedian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2012
    star 2
    I'm sorry, but comments like this are incredibly distasteful. To compare not liking a film to child abuse is the height of fanboy stupidity.

    In regards to the OP, well made (perhaps very well made, but I'm not so sure) but formulaic is exactly what I'm expecting from ST. Everyone will leave saying "wow, that was so much better than the prequels", but nothing will really expand the rich mythology that has long been the core of what makes Star Wars so engaging.

    My ideal Episode VII (and VIII and IX for that matter) will have me rushing home from the cinema to watch Episodes I-VI again, just to see a completely different story emerge as a result of the ST. Does that make sense to people? I want the ST to show me the Saga in a completely new light.
  17. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Depends on the formula. If we get something that heavily pours on the OT nostalgia, I'll likely go my normal Abrams route and see the film once, mildly enjoy it in a few places, and then never have the desire to watch it again.
  18. darth ladnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 3
    I find the above statement or GL "raped my childhood" or other statements like these trying to hit GL in a bizarrely personal way.

    First, all GL did was make some bad films in your opinion, not really the greatest crime. Second, child abuse is pretty common and even rape is surprisingly common considered what a heinous act it is. Think what it's like for someone who was really abused by his parent hearing his childhood compared to a mediocre film. Geez, I mean, there are some kids who read these forums and some of them have abusive parents right now. Think what it'd be like for them. What you're doing is unfair to GL and it's unfair to people who really suffer in the real world.

    BTW, in an ongoing poll in the Saga Forum, the ROTS is a close 2nd behind the TESB; then, there's a big gap and ANH and ROTJ are near each other at 3rd and 4th; then there's another big gap and TPM and ATOC are at the bottom. ROTS is the only prequel to be more highly rated than a OT film on rottentomates (higher than ROTJ) and despite all the anti-prequel hate, ROTS's imdb rating is higher than almost all the Bond films and almost all non-Nolan directed comic books films. So, one of the films that you equate with child abuse is actually well thought of among the fans AND the general public, meaning that most people don't agree with opinion, let alone your feeling that seeing the film was so horrible that it was like being having blows rained down on your head.

    PS, I think the only lesson GL has learned is that making another SW trilogy would be hard given that he'd be almost 80 when it's over. He has other projects he want to with his life before he dies, like give away his $4 billion in philanthropic endeavors.

    (PPS, I do happen to agree with you on your 1st 2 posts, though clearly not on the 3rd, or at least not the way you express yourself in it.)
    Last edited by darth ladnar, Apr 28, 2013
  19. SweetZombieJesus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 2
    There's something to be said for formulae; often they are used because they are successful. E.G. AC-DC basically comes out with the same album every 5 years or so; I'm sure to them, as artists and musicians they get bored but their fans eat it up.
  20. Grand_Moff_Jawa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 5
    The magic of Star Wars, especially ANH back in 1977, was the lived-in look of the movie. An almost documentary-type approach. Like someone just grabbed a camera and started filming. Some of that magic dwindled in the next two installments, especially in ROTJ. I would LOVE to feel that "magic" again in E7. To be honest, I felt a little of that old-school nostalgia/magic in Super 8. Seriously. If JJ can capture that essence of Star Wars, I'd be a happy camper. I'll settle for a strong, well-acted movie at the minimum too.
  21. Pensivia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2013
    star 4
    This is a tough question...of course in the ideal world, we fans "want it all" (a well-made film that is also original and "feels like SW"):) ...but if forced to choose between something that would have serious weaknesses in some areas but still would still "feel" like the SW universe I've come to know from the first six films and something that was "better done" but felt "generic" or somehow "not SW enough," I'd have to go with the first option. I guess I would base this on my feelings about TPM and AotC. For me, those films had serious weaknesses, but yet they are still "Star Wars-y" enough for me to enjoy them overall even though there are aspects of each that I think are pretty awful (some of the Anakin scenes/dialogue and everything Jar Jar in TPM; the romantic scenes/dialogue between Padme and Anakin in AotC). There's just something I love about the SW universe and the characters, even when some parts of a film are poorly executed.

    The main thing for me with the new films is that they will have to connect in some _meaningful_ way with the themes and characters of the PT and OT, or I'm afraid I won't be "drawn in" enough to whatever the new stories will be. And I am not very optimistic that this will turn out to be the case without GL's direct involvement--but I certainly hope to be proven wrong!
    darth ladnar likes this.
  22. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    If you can't discuss the post, don't reply -Darth Boba
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Apr 28, 2013
  23. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Time to take a break. No personal attacks. -mod edit
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Apr 28, 2013
  24. Palpatine2016 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 3
    Yup
  25. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Again, you're misunderstanding my point. Saying that you are "rightfully" concerned carries strong connotations of having been proven correct. Unless they're claiming to have prophetic powers, no one on this forum can genuinely say they're "rightfully" concerned about Episode VII.

    I know on one level this is just linguistic nitpicking, but even if it's unintentional, I think the wording here is very demonstrative of an attitude around here that I think needs to be fought. The degree of prejudgment that's occurring before we know anything about Episode VII - including, also again, whether it should really be called a "JJ Abrams film" instead of, say, a "Michael Arndt film" - is simply insane.