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CT Whatever happened to Vader's plan to rule the galaxy as father and son?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by acroyear7, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. acroyear7

    acroyear7 Jedi Master star 3

    Feb 11, 2006
    And why would Vader agree to the Emperor wanting to replace him with Luke? In ESB, Vader said the Emperor foresaw Luke and Vader ruling the galaxy together. Shouldn't Vader not have blocked Luke from striking down the Emperor?
  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Jul 7, 2009
    Luke refused.

    Who said he did?

    No, Vader said the Emperor foresaw the possibility of Luke destroying him.

    Maybe he was saving his son from doing something he would regret, like he did?
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  3. acroyear7

    acroyear7 Jedi Master star 3

    Feb 11, 2006

    Why bring Luke to the Emperor if the the Emperor wanted Vader replaced? Apart from that, Luke refusing shouldn't have stopped Vader from convincing Luke from doing so. Vader already had Luke in his grasp on the Death Star. As far as Vader was concerned, Luke wasn't going anywhere. If Vader didn't want to be replaced, why didn't he allow Luke to strike the Emperor down? Why defend the Emperor then? I don't think Vader was too worried about Luke regretting killing the Emperor. That is if he still planned on ruling the galaxy, father and son. He would've had to get the Emperor out of the way somehow, why not then and there?
  4. TheChosenSolo

    TheChosenSolo Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 9, 2011
    I swear this has been discussed somewhere else before, but for the life of me I can't figure out where it was.
  5. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 6, 2004
    I think Vader was pretty conflicted by that stage and didn't quite know what he wanted.
    JediKnightOB1, Mr. K and darth ladnar like this.
  6. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn

    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Sep 23, 1999
    The Making of Return of the Jedi has information throughout about how this thread kind of got dropped. ESB had it, and the earlier versions of ROTJ had more conflict between Vader and the Emperor, with at least one having the Emperor kidnapping Luke off Tatooine without Vader's help (if I recall). But Lucas wanted all the conflict to happen in much more subtle ways, and so the thread of Vader's ambitions is only there beneath the surface now.
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
  7. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 6, 2004
    I like the way it plays out now. It's evident that Vader and the Emperor have different plans for Luke, but they don't detract from what's really important, Luke's plans for them!
    Mr. K, Ananta Chetan and darth ladnar like this.
  8. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Mar 10, 2005
    Remember that Vader almost managed to turn Luke to the dark side. If he'd succeeded, his next step would've been to convince Luke to rule the galaxy with him, which should've been easy at that point.
    When he stopped Luke from killing the Emperor, I think he was partly acting instinctively ("I must obey my Master"), partly trying to make sure that Luke was further gone into the dark side before killing Palpatine, so there'd be no risk of him going back to the Rebels afterwards.
  9. Granger

    Granger Jedi Knight star 2

    Nov 1, 2012
    Vader doesn't realize that the emperor plans to replace him with Luke. He thinks Luke will turn, become powerful in the dark side and then kill the emperor and he and Luke will rule the galaxy together.
  10. Ananta Chetan

    Ananta Chetan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Aug 11, 2013
    Vader decided to more realistically reevaluate his career goals.
  11. Dameron

    Dameron Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 8, 2014
    Based just on the original trilogy, a lot of people got the idea that Vader and the Emperor each trying to replace the other was a cynical power struggle. I know that's what I thought. Adding in the prequel trilogy and Clone Wars makes it look more like the Sith want to challenge themselves against worthy opponents and see "who's the best" as a way of life -- kind of like a fighting-game character.

    The Sith are more like boxers who have to beat good opponents to get status and respect. You need your manager to recruit good fighters to face you so you can beat someone who's worth beating. Both Vader and the Emperor understand that the other will act as that manager and find good enemies to fight as part of their Sith beliefs. I think there's a lot of prequel and TCW content that bears this out.

    As to why Vader blocks Luke from striking down the Emperor, he wants Luke to fall to the dark side before ruling the galaxy as father and son.
  12. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Sep 3, 2012
    Cause Luke didn't turn
  13. TX-20

    TX-20 Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 21, 2013
    Darth Vader: "If you join me, we will rule the galaxy as father and son!"
    Luke: "Make it 'Son and Father' and you've got a deal."
    Darth Vader: "The Son of Suns will not defer to the Son of the Son of Suns!"
    Luke: "If you do, I'll show you how to bring Padme back to life."
    Darth Vader: "Deal!"
    Luke whispers under his breath
    Luke: "All too easy."
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
  14. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 10, 2011

    I believe the same book explains that Vader felt like he wasn't strong enough to turn Luke to the dark side, since he'd failed in ESB. His plan in RotJ was to bring Luke to the Emperor, have his much stronger master turn Luke to the dark side for him, and then finally recruit Luke to overthrow him.

    Vader blocked Luke's saber strike because he knew that if he didn't, the Emperor would block it and then kill them both.
  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Sep 2, 2012
    Certainly fits with the RoTJ novelization.
  16. SeinEwigerSchatten

    SeinEwigerSchatten Jedi Padawan star 1

    May 10, 2013
    Vader was a crazy maniac who choked his pregnant wife, slaughtered little children, helped a sith lord to destroy the jedi order which he had sworn to protect, later Vader cut off his own sons hand in brutal rage, offered him a BFF friendship in the very next moment.

    Vader was simply i n s a n e. =P~
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.