ST What's in the book? Journal of the Whills?

Then why send R2 away with the piece of the map? And how did the second part end up on Jakku?

It remains to be seen if these questions will be answered...

 

I think R2s piece of the map was nothing special in reality and it was just the same part of the map the First Order had got from old empire records.

 

first comes the day___then comes the night

after the darkness shines through the light

The day is Luke in ROTJ. The Night is Kylo (after he destroyed Luke's temple). Rey is the light that shines through.

The difference they say, is only made right,

by resolving of grey through refined Jedi sight.

meaning, individually, the light or the dark won't make a difference, but if they work together aka are in balance, they'll make a difference. That's the Symbolic Red/Blue saber forming the Jedi symbol. The trio has to get their sitcom together.

 

There's a simple explanation to Luke not getting involved during the TFA events. He does not have the power/knowledge to kill Snoke.

I have no doubt Luke found something that changes his whole philosophy, he removed himself to re-think his whole outlook and reflect on his and the Jedi's history. But in my view, there's no way he would just sit back and not get involved if he had the means to. Luke hiding on the planet is multi-purposed.

Snoke will be linked to this, I think he goes back to the original Jedi and a full understanding of their ways is needed to defeat him. Until Luke reaches that point of knowledge he has to hide. It's clear from Snoke's words in TFA, he has no doubt Luke can defeat him.

Either way, the Whills is a great new story point, it will hopefully give us a whole new outlook on the Force and it's history. It sets TLJ apart immediately from the other movies. Bring it on.

 

I agree with someone above who posted that these books probably contain ancient language or symbols that when touched or meditated on create Force visions for Luke and Rey.

I think these books contain the earliest Jedi writings, the truest path for the Jedi and peace in the galaxy, and probably the original prophecy of the "chosen one." "Misread it could have been," Yoda states in ROTS, and I think he's right. The judgement of the Jedi of the prequels was severely clouded.

I think Luke is the first to lay eyes on this original Jedi information for millennia, and it is his calling to bring the Jedi Order back to its original vision and intention. We are going to see Luke and Rey completely reform the Jedi and do away with the broken system that helped let Palpatine seize power undetected, that in part pushed Anakin to the dark side and that also created hatred and fear inside Ben Solo to become Kylo Ren. All of it, done away with and something new and more lasting and powerful in its place!

Luke's destiny was not just to do away with the Sith by confronting Vader and the Emperor, but to reform the Jedi, and that's what was still left to accomplish at the end of ROTJ. It'll be exciting to see!

 

I actually like the idea of meditating and force visions quite a lot, but there is a problem. Force visions can very difficult to interpret and sometimes very vague making it extremely difficult to get a true understanding from them. If the Journal of the Whills was designed for knowledge and understanding about the force, then it doesn't really make sense to create something that can be easily misinterpreted.

Unless they approach from the angle of depending how clear your mind is and how unbiased your views the more clearer the visions. So if you where completely unbiased and clear minded the visions would appear in perfect view giving you an accurate vision of what needs to be done or the lessons that need to be learnt, whereas if your mind is clouded or biased then the visions appear more vague and can be misinterpreted easily, for example the original prophecy of the chosen one and Yoda saying "Misread it could have been", Because we know for a fact the Jedi's minds where clouded and biased, which is why they could have easily misinterpreted the prophecy.

As a result the Journal of the Whills can work perfectly for knowledge and understanding of the force because you only understand it if you're unbiased and clear minded, and not if your 100% Darkside/Sith or 100% Lightside/Jedi because as such you are biased.

 

It's not just about bias. Sometimes there just isn't enough information, or the information could change.

Besides, destinies need to be indeterminate for the sake of story-telling. If we, or the characters, know exactly what will happen, then there's no suspense.

What I find interesting about Ben's comment about Yoda is that, here's Ben...one with the Force...and yet Yoda apparently has more insight into seeing the future than Ben does. That said, I think Ben and Yoda knew more than they let on to, but that's a different matter for a different thread.

 

How do you know what they are supposed to be? All we know is that they were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic for a thousand generations. That the order was maintained for a long period. We aren't sure what the Whills are just yet; originally they were recorders of galactic events developed by GL to convey the original SW story to us here on Earth before rejecting that idea. Now we are getting to a rework of old ideas, but we don't know what they are yet. The Bendu on Rebels was just a reworking of the original name for the Jedi.

"Anakin was deceived by a lie. We all were..."
Obi Wan to Padme, Revenge of the Sith

 

"Always in motion the future is."
Yoda, ESB

"Shadows cast by the dark side have clouded their vision."
Dooku, AOTC Re: the Jedi

"Careful you must be when sensing the future."
Yoda to Anakin

"But Master Yoda says I must be mindful of the future."
"But not at the expense of the moment.Keep your thoughts here and in the present."
Qui Gon and Obi Wan, TPM

Are the Jedi doing what the Force wills or what they think the Force is going to will?
Devotion to the light isn't bias. Its difficult to achieve. It isn't the adherence to the light side that brought down the Jedi. It narrows down to the flaws of people handling something that is far larger than their capacity to fully understand it. Even the best Jedi is still flawed. Doesn't make them less or wrong. Fallacy is inherent in everything. That is why Yoda constantly stressed caution and patience before reacting. But even that will come back to haunt you sometimes. The Jedi can't be solely blamed for what Sidious did to them. He infiltrated the democracy they were sworn to protect and had them shot in the back by their own allies. The original Jedi fought the Sith coming at them in the open. They weren't prepared for what happened to them. Neither was Luke apparently in regards to Ben.

 

It wasn't largely ignored. The first lines of the film bring TFA back to TPM, since that's where the first mention of the Force and Balance arose.

"Without the Jedi there can be no balance in the Force"

 

I'm not talking about the future because as you rightly say it's always in motion and very difficult to read. My point was that if the Journal of the Whills is of ancient text and symbols regarding balance, understanding and the will of the force, then you need to have an open mind and cannot let bias stand in the way of true meaning. I illustrated the point of the prophecy to back up my point of what happens if your biased or your judgement is clouded, that you can end up missing the point, or least very important details.

Devotion to light or dark does IMO make you biased because it means that you do not accept the other side, nor do you study it. The force is made up of light and dark so to appreciate both sides and understand both sides means your more knowledgeable as regards to the force as a whole, not just your particular views. Palpatine said in wonderfully in ROTS "To become a wise leader you must embrace all aspects of the force, not just the dogmatic narrow minded view of the Jedi".

 

I would argue that Ben's and Yoda's ability to block and manipulate Force lightning on their first tries in the PT demonstrate that they have studied the entirety of the Force....not to mention their ability to make themselves one with the Force. This also fits in with Qui-gon becoming the first Force ghost, since he also had a different view of the Force than did the rest of the Jedi Council. Yoda, himself, began to see the Force in a new light by the end of ROTS, due to his other-worldly communications with Qui-gon.

There's also some lines in the novelizations and annotated screenplays that are interesting:

Keep in mind that Luke and Vader are capable of all the same powers in the films, but Luke is a "Light-Sider" and Vader is a "Dark-Sider". In this regard, "Light" and "Dark" refer to the intent and use of said powers, rather than the powers, themselves.

 

Yes. The force does not have a moral spectrum by itself (at least as I see it). The force is exactly what it says it is. A force. A natural force. The mystical equivalent of the building blocks of physics. The Bendu represents that. Nature, simply put, with all its beauties and horrors.

It is sentient beings who utilize the force to promote a moral purpose. Who bend it towards light and dark.

 

Don't forget the oral presentation

 

I disagree, Ben and Yoda's ability for blocking force lightning had nothing to do with studying the force especially the dark side. Anakin had literally just been blasted by lightning from Dooku seconds before Ben was, Ben then understood how powerful Dooku was and used his lightsaber to block it because he knew Dooku was capable of lightning because he'd just seen it.

Same with Yoda, Now sure Yoda hadn't experienced force lightning before (I'm assuming anyway, let's just say he hasn't for argument sake). Yoda doesn't manipulate it, he pushes it back to Dooku using force push, this gives Yoda the opportunity to see how strong the lightning is and upon finding out it wasn't extremely powerful he could probably deal with it by absorbing it rather then pushing it away. Same situation for Yoda against Sidious, considering that Yoda experienced lightning against Dooku and must of known Sidious was more powerful then Dooku, it still took Yoda by surprise as to how powerful Sidious's lightning was.

We all know Qui-Gon thought very differently from the Jedi that's why he was able to achieve becoming a force ghost, but remember it was Qui-Gon that taught it to Yoda and then Yoda who taught it to Ben. It was only through their teachings with Qui-Gon that this happened, not from them studying the force themselves.

 

My hope is that Kylo can be saved, shown whatever truth Luke has found, and stop the First Order.

Someone asked about how the map ended up on Jakku. Lor San Tekka had it, and apparently he was involved with Luke and his new apprentices since Tekka knew Kylo, who remarked on how old the man had become.

For good or ill we are about to get a breakdown on the history and meaning of the Force that'll either be received well or not. The midichlorians were simply a device used to gauge the potential one had to attune to the Force but obviously not mastery over it. People claimed the mystery was taken from the Force that way. Well get ready, I think we're getting a Genesis type story

 

@Plan 741 yep, Genesis type of a story is something we've been mulling over in the Trees thread. So you are in the right place.

 

One other detail to remember about the map to Luke in FTA; Luke left half with a member of the Church of the Force. In the Aftermath trilogy, we see *they* possess fragments of teachings from the Guardians of the Whills too. It certainly seems Luke's journey was taking him in an, ah, Whill-ish direction.

 

I'm not going to delve into differences in interpretation in regards to Force lightning, but I never said Ben and Yoda learned to become Force ghosts on their own. My point was Qui-gon showed Yoda an aspect of the Force that Yoda hadn't known of before. TLJ could show even more new aspects of the Force.

 

I guess studying and learning can be interpreted as the same thing, My original point was to symbolize that to truly understand the force you have to be willing to accept and study both sides, not just pick and chose what you want to.

 

I believe that the Jedi were well aware of the Sith's teachings. You can't prepare to stand against something you couldn't recognize. I imagine they studied its nature and its side effects with enough detail to pattern a training program against its lure.

 

Studying all aspects doesn't necessitate using all aspects. Ben and Yoda taught Luke all he needed to know to defeat Palpatine.

And having spent 30 years studying more aspects doesn't seem to have aided Luke in teaching Ben, nor encouraged him to confront Snoke.

 

That shot of the books in the trailer is beautiful.

'First comes that Day
Then comes the Night
After the darkness
Shines through the light
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray
Through refined Jedi sight.'

The books have been in darkness for a very long time.

The Jedi failed to access the knowledge in these books.

The light fading allowing the Dark Side to strengthen and cloud their vision. (clouds block out the light)

Their (the Jedi) insight has 'greyed' over the last 1000 years or more because of the lack of retaining the knowledge in these books.

Luke will once again have the knowledge in the books.

He will restore the Jedi to the true light side.

 

You seem to be forgetting that the Jedi didn't accept the Sith had returned until AOTC even though there was evidence to prove otherwise long before (Heck Qui-Gon flat out stated it in TPM), and they where also unaware that Palpatine was a Sith until Anakin informed them in ROTS. It seems to me the prequel Jedi was clueless in regards to the Sith and the power of the Darkside, they may of had some teachings and knowledge of ancient Sith and the Darkside, but they where clueless against the new Sith threat. Why? Because the Sith adapted and studied, the Jedi rested and thought through arrogance they knew everything there was to know.

 

I don't. Just throwing mud on the wall, like everyone else.