What's In Vader's Mind and Heart?

Growing up with the OT and now an inevitable fan of the PT, as I watch and rewatch the movies from time to time, more and more I wonder what does Vader's heart and mind tell him, if anything.
When I was five in 1977, it was simple. He was the bad guy, period.

All these years later, I wonder if anyone has any ideas about Vader's motivations, intentions, or just what makes him tick.

Does he realize that Palpatine is evil when he turns to the Dark Side(too late), but, thinking he can never go back to the Light Side, he instead serves his Emperor, while little by little undermining him for 20-odd years til the final hurl down the reactor shaft?

Or does he still believe he's on the righteous side even after he gets the iron lung and black helmet, believing that the extermination of the Jedi is a good thing for the universe and its inhabitants?

When he goes to the Dark Side in Episode 3, do you think he regrets his choice over the course of the next 20 years or do you think he even gives it any thought?

I guess I'm just really hoping that Vader will be truly evil, and not some unfortunate and noble prisoner of evil that he can't escape, or a puppet of the Dark Side.

Sorry if this is kinda rambling, I guess I'm just trying to figure out how to word this question, but hopefully someone will understand what I'm trying to ask!

 

This is what the prequels are for. Come Ep. III, you'll get a pretty good idea. You'll just have to watch them a few times, all Eps. It'll come to you [face_smile]

 

Does he realize that Palpatine is evil when he turns to the Dark Side(too late), but, thinking he can never go back to the Light Side, he instead serves his Emperor, while little by little undermining him for 20-odd years til the final hurl down the reactor shaft?

I think Vader feels he can never go back to the Light, from the way he speaks in RotJ. By his words, it seems he believes he is hopelessly lost. I don't, however, believe he was undermining the Emperor that much. Very little gets past the old buzzard...he even sensed that Vader was starting to have a change of heart. In a way I think there was always the tension of one wanting to wipe the other out, but not in any overt ways. I definitely don't believe that the Palpy Toss was in any way planned.

Or does he still believe he's on the righteous side even after he gets the iron lung and black helmet, believing that the extermination of the Jedi is a good thing for the universe and its inhabitants?
That's a good question, and one that I hope we'll get an idea of from EPIII. I'd like to think that Vader, or Anakin, started out thinking he's doing the right thing.

When he goes to the Dark Side in Episode 3, do you think he regrets his choice over the course of the next 20 years or do you think he even gives it any thought?
I definitely feel there will come a time when Vader wakes up one day and realizes that it's not quite the way he wanted it, that things are not happening the way they should. In ESB he told Luke they'd "bring order and end this destructive conflict" (paraphrasing). I think he realizes that it's now way out of control and somebody's got to fix it. I'm sure he was promised that things will get better for the universe and he's going to see that that's not happening. He'll come to a point where he realizes that he's been manipulated and duped, but by then it's too late to back out. For Vader, there's no where else to go.

I guess I'm just really hoping that Vader will be truly evil, and not some unfortunate and noble prisoner of evil that he can't escape, or a puppet of the Dark Side.
Old theories abound that the Emperor controls everything including Vader. I guess this could be true considering the "clouding" of the Jedi that's going on in AotC, but I don't know if I like the idea that Vader himself is being controlled. You're right: it would take away from his evil-ness, make him weaker and make his redemption less meaningful.

 

Maybe somewhere in Ep.III or shortly after it, Palpatine will rellentlessley pound it into Vader's mind that the Jedi are evil and must be exterminated. I mean it didn't just happen overnight. Anakin had the anger in him, but he needed the guidance in the dark side. And maybe the finding of Luke conjured up all of those lost feelings of Vader's. Maybe up until he found Luke, he truly with out a doubt believed that he was doing the right thing, but when he found Luke it brought back many old emotions and questions about himself and his actions.

 

I think Ani's ideas of right and wrong are confused to begine with. In AOTC we see realy start to slide. My guess is by the midle of ep 3 he doesn't know which way is up or who to ask, and DS is there with easy answers that make him feel in control.

I do think some where in his head he thinks the only way to "fix" the universe is for Palp to rule with an iron fist. By the time we get to ANH he starts thinking he could do a better job. (read the novel, Takin and Vader are basicly planing taking over with the death star.) In ESB he definatly thinks, Luke is the only thing that can stop the Emp, and that him and Luke should be in charge. In ROTJ he actualy kills Emp, and for all we know thinks Luke is going to be a kinder gentler Emporer. He doesn't know his son that well, and (in my oppinion) thinks the universe needs an emp.

 

For me, in the next flick Anakin has to willingly embrace the Dark Side. Anything else won't cut it.

Now obviously circumstances are going to influence his decision, but I see a big clue in Anakin's talk with Padme in AOTC where they're discussing the political system and Anakin says that someone should "make them" listen.

Now obviously I can say that the Republic is crumbling without being spoilerish and if Anakin can be manipulated into believing that the Jedi are part of the problem rather than the solution, that might easily make him change his allegiance and back someone who he believes has the strength and will to force order upon the galaxy.

Above anything else, Anakin seems to focus on results, not methods.

 

All Anakin has done is other peoples dirty work and in doing so he has been a slave his entire life even as Vader he was a slave.
The only time he was free was when he killed Palpatine in Jedi and indoing so he not only brought Blance to the Force but he also freed the slaves not only on his home world of Tatioone but of the whole Galaxy.

 

That I agree with. When Anakin returned to the light and Vader "died" Anakin was truely free. How transcendental..

IMHO, Vader was born of anger and pain. We already have a foreshadowing of how Anakin copes (or doesn't cope) with the darker more intense emotions, such as extreme grief and anger. When he took out the Tuskens he crossed to the darkside, but was able to come back.

The next time something like that happens (in my opinion, Padme will be the next loved one he looses) he will shut down the light side of him and turn his back on what he was. He will be fueled by his anger and pain. It isn't until his son ( a personification of Padme in many ways) shows him there is another way, that Anakin finally returns to the light and balances the Force by taking out Palps. (Palpy toss, I like the sound of that, sounds like a new event at the SW Olympics.. next up in the Palpy toss, Yoll'h Nosnhoj..).

Anakin is still inside there, but he has been buried deeply Vader has let his hurt and anger and pain become his fuel and his motivation..turning him into a very dark and bitter Sith Lord.

 

Well said IamZam.

 

thank you.. Vader always seemed to me as a person who was fueled by some very strong rage and pain..

 

Heart. I did'nt think Vader had a heart. I figured it was destroyed in his accident.

I think Vader wants to do the right thing. His morals are just really flawed.

 

Anyone else notice that the ONLY person he injures since the ESB duel is Palpatine? Ever since he slices off his boy's hand, he hurts NO ONE on screen. In the EU, in Shadows of the Empire, he doesn't do anything except try to save his son from Xizor. It seems that even before he admits it, he gets a soft spot when Luke refuses to join him.

 

Yes, I have noticed that change in attitude of Vader's from ESB on - and I think it is deliberate.

Hope this isn't too much - but Anakin is going to willingly choose to go to the dark side. McCallum and Lucas have been quoted in reference to an AOTC line where his is talking politics with Padme, "No, he wasn't kidding her. He really believes that."

And in recent quotes they indicate that he chooses.

So I think he is 95% dark before the suit, before the Obi Wan duel, and on his own accord.

But - I think what makes him so obedient to the Emperor is that the Emperor uses the Dark Side to keep him alive - "defeat death." I believe he sees Palpatine as key a life support system as the suit.

 

i think he choosing to go the dark side is b/c of his hate for Obi-1. And one he was destroyed in ANH, I guess Vader felt there was nothing more to do, he had "become the most powerful jedi ever". as of that moment I beleive he felt alone. If you see in ANH he is calm before and after feeling OBI but once he started to feel him, his demeanor changed. I dont think he was completely to the darkside.I think just confused. He just wanted to feel like a human and use the force at the same time. So in a scence he was never bad, just alone, and after all the jedi were destroyed he chose to be powerful and servant then solitde. So suffering he was. If anyone has seen the movie Equilibrium with Christian Bale, you will know what i mean about wanting to feel emotions and be what you want to be at the same time, it is a STRUGGLE.

 

Ooh, good points.

 

I've always wondered if he still thinks about his wife, as I feel it may be one of the reason's he gets pissed when Piett interrupts him in the mediation chamger ("Yes, Admiral?")