Whats so bad about the Greedo shooting first scene?

Everyone keeps saying how they hate this scene but it isn't that bad, so what he shoots first. People say because he has such a crap shot but Han moves out of the way so what is everyones problem with this little scene?

 

A lot of fans say that it takes away the Han's character. The only problem I had with the scene is not that greedo shoots first, but the way Lucas executed the scene on the screen.

 

I don't see how it took away Han's character. I do agree it looks kind of bad I mean he doesn't even flinch but I can live with it.

 

I don't think it changes Han's character at all. Yeah, it looks silly that Greedo is such a terrible shot (although it's better on the DVD), but Han's character arc is still exactly as it has always been - from selfish rogue to compassionate hero. It hasn't changed that - he's the same character.

 

The scene doesn't flow, not even in the dvd version. It's very disturbing to see that scene pause for just a tiny millisecond, but it's very noticeable.

Maybe Lucas wanted to make Han a bit more of a good guy, but like Ash said in The Army of Darkness: "I'm not that good..." And Han isn't either.

On Cloud City Han did shoot first at Vader, you know. Luckily he could deflect the laser bolts, or someone could've been sidiously injured!!!

 

Like mentioned countless of times, there's a huge difference between shooting at some weak bounty hunter & shooting a Sith (which at the time is one of the most powerful fighters in the galaxy).

 

there's a huge difference between shooting at some weak bounty hunter & shooting a Sith (which at the time is one of the most powerful fighters in the galaxy).

Long ago I swore I'd never use a lame Yoda quote to respond to someone on this forum...but....I can't resist this time...

"No....No different!! Only different in your mind.".

When Greedo had his gun in Han's face...Han naturally felt threatened...and pulled the trigger on poor Greedo.

When the door to the dining hall on Bespin opened...there stood Darth Vader....Han naturally felt threatened. He pulled the trigger on poor Darth Vader.

This tells us that when Han feels threatened....he blows some poor bastard to hell, and apoligizes "...for the mess.".

 

This was the problem with the scene in the SE:

If I sat across a table from you, pointed a gun at you and said "Boy, I'm really going to enjoy shooting you. Get ready 'cause here it comes"...

...would you wait until I fired before you shot back?

Would you jump out of the way and then shoot back?

Or would you just shoot...TO SAVE YOUR LIFE?

As the scene plays now on the DVD, I'm happy with it. To me, they now appear to shoot almost simultaneously.

 

I hate the change because even though everyone says its no big deal, it is becaue Lucas felt the need to change something that is "no big deal". When I was a kid Han always had this aura of being ambiguous of whether he was a hero or a villain, at least until the end of ANH, therefore becoming the most interesting character. Han was the type of guy who calmly distracts a guy with a gun pointed at him then blows him away without thinking about it, then flips the bartendere a coin for the mess. Awesome.

Now, because we still see Han preparing to shoot Greedo, the scene makes Han look smart and cautious, but not dangerous and sly. The scene and change may be small, but the character implications are huge. Everyone says Han's story arc remains the same, but it actually starts ina different place now, a little farther down the arc, IMO.

There is also just the visuals of it which are obviously not acting in a physical way, and it is glaring, unlike some of the other changes. This was a bad idea all the way around.

 

As they scene plays on the DVD, they both shoot at the same time (Han actually shoots twice now) - so Han was going to shoot anyway, it's just that now, we see more of the physical danger to Han, as Greedo shoots as well. It's not like Greedo shoots and Han reacts to it - it's a quick-draw, with one more accurate than the other.

 

It's a good thing that Greedo is such a terrible shooter or it would be both of them that would be killed (since like the previous poster mentioned, they fired at the same time).

 

There are three principle reasons:
1) It alters Hans story arc to make him more of a straight up good guy. Why Lucas should decide to do this 20 years later is bizarre.

2) Even with the change on the DVD, it just looks bad. The lasers don't leave marks and the whole co-ordination of the change is just odd to look at.

3) I know its fantasy, but the fact that Greedo can be sitting opposite Han and miss at piont blank range is just plain silly.

All in all it was a pointless change. And Lucas knew it was shoddy because he had it changed again in the 2004 DVD. It still looks bad though.

My 2 credits.

 

i didnt see anything wrong with it. He's still the Han that i acted like as a kid.

 

I'm pretty sure that if Greedo fired first in the original 1977 version, nobody would be complaining as long as long as Han ducked in a convincing way.

The problem is not that he shoots first, but how blatantly cheap the change looks. The new DVD improves this quite a bit by having them fire at the same time, though Han's head jerk still looks fake.

Why didn't Lucas just have Greedo shoot first? Well, you do have to understand that they weren't working with a super-budget or 21st century technology back in 1977. Maybe the Greedo suit didn't allow for it?

 

Why WOULDN'T Han shoot first? That is my question. Greedo has obviously tried to kill Han before.

The most over used defense in these discussions is the most true. The REAL reason IMO it was changed was because Lucas was making it up as he went. I'm not saying he did not have a general idea of what he wanted to do. I'm just saying he had nearly all of the details hanging in the wind, or left them purposely very open ended so he could fill-in some cool details later.

If you've seen the Documentary and read much about Lucas' early ideas, you realize how fluid his thoughts were and how open to bringing in new ideas he was, right up until the last minute.

So IMO, he did not even know himself how heroic the Han character would become. IMHO, he didn't even have it cemented in his head that Luke and Leia were siblings until he saw how well the chemistry between Han and Leia (and Ford and Fisher) was working in ESB.

So he felt obligated to do some revisionist history. Personally, I think he made the wrong call. It was fine as it stood.

I've seen it reasoned that he most likely did not have the whole Luke/Leia=twins and Han/Leia=couple settled upon until between the end of production of ESB and the writing of RotJ. He can deny it all he wants, but he is just not that dumb to leave such glaring plot inconsistancies. Luckily for him, by the time RotJ came out, no one really cared. But that is another argument altogether!

And luckily for him, most of the "Han shot first" crowd (like me) just like to moan about it, but don't let it stop us from enjoying the SW Universe as a whole.

Doc

 

The reasons why this scene will never work has been exhausted to death. With that in mind, I present something new to this tiring topic.

Lucas heard that the Wachowski Brothers were doing a film called The Matrix. It sounded so original and interesting to him that he couldnt sleep. Staying up countless nites with the whistling wind blowing into his ear. "The Matrix has you". This would lead him to make several phone calls to the Wachowski Brothers wich were never returned. One day Lucas shows up at WB studios after following the Wachowski Brothers to Hollywood where he hid in a Dumpster until they were finished with lunch. Acting as though he was just passing by he purposefully bumbed into them. A folder hit the ground and papers fell out. Lucas scrambled to pick them up displaying his deepest apologies when he stopped at a sketch. It depicted a man dodging bullets. The paper was then snatched from Lucas before the string of spit lowering from his foaming mouth could touch the page. "Y-You have your guy d-dodg-ggg, dodging, bullets?" He said. The Brothers answered "yeah, somethin like that". They gave him an autograph and left.

Lucas thought the image he had seen was so cool that he wanted "The Matrix" to be a part of the STARWARS universe. ANH would have Hansolo dodge pointblank range fire as a nod to the Wachowski brothers. After seeing the completion of The Matrix Trilogy, his mind was completely blown. He would go back and re-spice Han's Matrix scene for the DVDs. Thats MY theory.

 

My main problem with it was that it looked absolutely horrible in the SE version, even people who had no idea about Han shooting first couldn't help but take notice of the weirdness in the scene.

DVD's fixed that though, it's noticeable if you're really looking for it but for the general audience who just watch the scene as a whole it goes by way too fast.

 

I don't know if anyone's mind was truly blown after seeing The Matrix Reloaded of Revolutions ...

 

On the subject of Greedo's aim. Perhaps he moonlighted as a stormtrooper.

 

I thought of that. But even the StormTrooper who bumps his head could have killed Han at that range. I mean, Han and Greedo could have played footsie they were so close.

Ford-"You mean to tell me HanSolo can dodge bullets?"

Lucas-"Come 1997.... He wont have to."

 

I don't see anything wrong with the scene. I mean, does Han still kill Greedo in the end? Yes. Does he walk away unscathed after facing off with a bounty hunter? Yes. So what if Greedo misses? I mean, I don't hear anyone complaining how Boba Fett, who is the greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy, fires at Luke twice above the Sarlacc and misses both times! Seriously, if Han had shot first to begin with, no one would be having this debate.

 

"if Han had shot first to begin with, no one would be having this debate."

Exzactly. If that was the way it was "intended" and done no one would be complaining because it would be a known event of the film. Unfortunately the known event of the film had Greedo never get a shot off. Thats, PART of the problem.

And yes, Fett missed Luke (at a distance). And even with the force as his ally I think Fett could have nailed him sitting at a cozy table for two.

 

Originally, Han did what he felt necessary and couldnt care less that he just blew someone way. The moral ambivalence of Han created him and actually made his story arc ARC.

Now, he is just lucky that Greedo had such crappy aim. Yeah he would have killed Greedo, but lets face it, Han should be dead.

Before, he walked away without any midgivings because he did what he had to do. He was nonchalant because he knew how it was gonna go down as soon as Greedo started talking. In the current situation, you would think that he would be a little more thankful that Greedo couldnt shoot and not so nanchalant. It doesnt fit anymore.

 

His story arc is that he goes from a selfish scoundrel to a loving hero

The shootout just adds to it, i will agree that him shooting first better shows this but it never was THAT important to me - and neither is it to his character.

The execution went from horrible to good, it's not perfect on the dvd but it's good.