What's the dumbest reason you've heard for someone hating AOTC?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by seasider, Aug 7, 2002.

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  1. I_WAS_JUST_BANNED Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2002
    star 1
    That's the one where he's the photo lab developer who becomes obsessed with a family throught their photos, right? Is that going to get Art house released or go straight to video? I heard about it but I didn't get the details. It certainly looks very interesting, like "Novocaine" with Steve Martin. That is a great film.
  2. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    It will be relased nationwide; it played at Sundance earlier this year. I saw it about a month or two ago and had to get a copy: it's fantastic.

  3. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Funny how Star Wars got all weird and clunky once the hardcore crewmembers left. What I mean to say is, Star Wars always kind of sucked -- it's just that the sucky parts were never actually in the finished films, if you know where I'm coming from. Now that is an enigma for you to unravel over the next few days while I'm on "basher vacation" from the forum.

  4. AT7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2000
    star 1
    I LIKE THIS THREAD GUYS ! TIME TO VENT !!!
    The things I put up with as a SW fan !

    -"Why does Yoda has a stick, though he fights and flips all over the place"

    -"I thought it was gonna be Episode 7, 8, 9" duh !

    -"Its all fake" Too much computer generated stuff...

    -"George Lucas can't direct"

    -Also, people forever comparing to the OT and "the technology was crapper, even though it is in the future!"

    All I have to say, that averyone has their own opinion, I love star wars, but there are a few strange bits in the prequels I cringe at(much much fewer in E2 thanks GL!!) What is certain is that making these films is an ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE undertaking and accomplishment, and as anyone is film has admitted - only George Lucas can make a Star Wars film ! The scope for expanding the technology and art of film making is progressed with each movie...I'm just happy Im alive to see it..It is the dawn of a new era in cinema...

    So to those who dismiss our beloved SW easily - then go home eat a hot dog, play nintendo and stain their sheets - think about the WORK and the passion that goes into it...find that in your life and then shoot your mouth off !

    Thanks GL and Star Wars !


  5. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    BANNED:

    no, some of my friends are actually kind, considerate people, and i'm not too fond of elitists, but i don't think the definition of an elitist is someone who doesn't like certain things. i mean, seriously - home alone 2? i didn't even like the first one. batman returns? do you have to be an elitist to not like this? it was good the first time, when it was called Batman, and michael keaton was the man. we all know burton's a big fan of his. anyway, the term elitist doesn't really fit here. some of my favorite movies are a bit cheezy, but they have meaning to me, where some others don't. i think somewhere in the production of the movie there is a universal standard of good and bad, relating to the kinds of jobs the directors and other production members do. my brother worked with a director who continuously disregarded continuity errors and did everything as a rush job. you can see how his bad decisions come through in his movie. this doesn't mean that the story is going to be bad, however, which is why even a poorly made movie can be enjoyed sometimes, if the script is good, and despite any lackluster performances on the part of the crew (director included).
  6. I_WAS_JUST_BANNED Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2002
    star 1
    Zeek,

    I agree with you for the most part. but,

    who's making the assumptions here?
    considering that most of the people i know think of all but a few of these movies as utter crud (if they happen to think about them).


    This is a rather broad generalization(even if they are people you know) that is a behavior normally exhibited by someone with an elitist attitude. I like most of the movies on that list for one reason or another. I don't put them in the same category as classics like "Lawrence of Arabia" but I did enjoy them to some degree. Because I did enjoy at least some of the movie, I wouldn't put it in the "utter crud" category, ala debacles like I would Batman & Robin.

    I liked Batman Forever actually, Val Kilmer is a pretty good actor, I've liked most of his work. "Tombstone" specifically. Joel Schumacher is way to much flash and not enough substance, but then again this is Batman, not Ordinary People.

    To be honest it's not whether you like a movie or not that bothers me, AOTC or otherwise. It's the generalizations and assumptions and egotistical "I work in the industry, so I know better" attitudes on this forum that bug me. (not specifically you) There are an awful lot of people who come here that claim to be or be related to an industry insider. I've yet to see how that makes someone's opinion more valid than someone else's.
  7. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    i don't see how it is a broad generalization to make a statement about most of the people i know. it's not like a know a hundred thousand people that all agree on the same movie standard. indeed, one of my friends loves every movie with heather graham in it because he thinks she's hot. and he would still dis certain movies when asked.

    as for the insider crack, i would hardly call someone who worked a few production assistant jobs almost two years ago a hollywood insider. far from it. it was merely an example to make a point.

    and to address the topic - well, i don't have a dumbest reason for attack of the clones yet, but my mom refuses to ever watch the phantom menace a second time because she feels that anakin's fatherless birth is an affront to her religious beliefs.
  8. I_WAS_JUST_BANNED Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2002
    star 1
    Wow really? It's only a movie. Star Wars is an affront to her religious beliefs? I'm going to guess you're Catholic, right? If I'm wrong please disregard what I've said here, but wouldn't the organizers of Catholicism hiding the present(and apparently centuries old) scourge of priest pedophilia be a much more realistic affront to her religious beliefs than TPM's immaculate conception? Obviously this doesn't apply if you aren't Catholic.
  9. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    she is non-denominational christian.
    i am not. i do not share her beliefs.

    i can't speak for catholics, but if i was one it would make me seriously evaluate my faith in the words of these people... but i guess that's why i'm not a catholic.
  10. I_WAS_JUST_BANNED Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2002
    star 1
    Which is why I am now the founder of my own religion, which I share with myself, and am no longer a practicing Catholic. It's quite frightening, especially here in Boston.
  11. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    I was wondering when clergy molestion would become the topic on these boards? [face_plain]

    I wonder if this is why Lucas kept saying in interviews that the Jedi weren't celibate. Did he want to distance himself from the scandals?
  12. BB15 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2002
    My two cents.

    Now the new complaint by DrEvazan is that Lucas did not follow the SW formula and so AOTC is bad.

    durwood and DrEvazan have been arguing about what the SW formula is and if Lucas followed it in the new SW.

    Here's what I think the SW formula is based on comments by the guy who created it, Lucas, from the documentary at the end of the SEs.

    SW is a multigenerational myth set in a fantasy world.

    What is multigenerational myth? SW is multigenerational because it focuses on the Skywalker family and a few other characters; Palpatine, Obi Wan, Yoda over a long period of time. It is a myth because SW is also about classic stories that are told in world literature and in classic adventure films.

    What is a fantasy world? It is a world that seems familiar but which we cannot find (using the Tolkien formula). And it is a fantasy world that is made real by being as realistic as possible by using special effects, costumes, languages.

    The misunderstanding; The new SW fits this formula but it is a flexible formula. Look at the mythic stories like those by Tolkien, it can be about many types of stories.

    So, SW is not simple like most action films. That is the misunderstanding IMHO which our most prolific critic DrEvazan has with SW.

    "where is the sarcasm, the clever banter, the fast paced action, the instantly likeable characters, the instantly hateable characters"

    SW is not a straight forward adventure film like Indiana Jones that needs a certain type of central character, good guy and cardboard simplistic bad guys. SW is about the history of certain people in its fantasy world. As long as the plot includes the main characters and the SW world then a SW film can go several directions. It can have slapstick comedy scenes with Jar Jar. It can be a mystery like the beginning of AOTC which reminded me of Blade Runner. It can be about a hidden villain like Palpatine rather than an obvious one like Vader. As with Tolkien or Star Trek, once the main characters and fantasy world are established, the story can be about many things.

    TO SUM IT UP; IMHO one the most off base criticisms of AOTC is that it is bad because it is not a simplistic action film. SW has action film elements but also has always had more complexity which the term multigenerational myth implies carried over from its main source, Tolkien's myth and other classic mythic stories.

    BB ;-)
  13. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    actually what i said was that if lucas is following a formula, hes not doing it well, as every element of filmmaking he utilizes to do the things he is supposedly trying to do are utilized so poorly that it ends up making AOTC bad on the level of any film. its just bad filmmaking all around, formula or no formula.

    badly written: woefully clunky and awkard dialogue that tries to sound heightened, but fails even on the level of basic grammar.

    badly acted: the performances are wooden, non-convincing, amateurish, plain, uninteresting, lifeless. and when i use the word lifeless, i dont mean i dont like that it was intentionally lifeless, i mean the actor was unable to bring life to the role, and the director was unable to help the actor with this task.

    badly directed: see above, plus the pace is uneven and misused. slow when it should be quick, quick when it should be slow, choppy or non-existent in other places.


    EDIT: IMO!!!
  14. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    And like we've said, we disagree with your opinion.

    See, what bogs these discussions down is when people state opinion as absolute fact. Try saying things like "I felt the pacing was uneven," or "I thought the dialogue was poorly written." That we can't disagree with because it's what you think. However, when you present an argument as "The pacing was uneven" and "The dialogue was poorly written" you're going to get hammered, particularly when you don't provide examples to back up your assertion.

    I'm not trying to turn this into a semantics argument, but too many people phrase their opinions as though it were the gospel truth, and that can really put a burr under one's saddle.
  15. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Not only does it turn into a futile exercise in semantics, it also atkes away from certain facts, which are inherent in the film.

    For example, and this is just an example, the paraphrased line, "if you follow your thoughts to their conclusion, they will take us to aplce we can never gp" is a hideously hammy and clunky line. It is a fact.

    You might not think the world is round but...
  16. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    of course its my opinion. i added a IMO so you wouldnt forget.

    sorry bout that.
  17. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    It is a fact.

    Yes, it is a fact that that's your opinion. And it's a further fact that I disagree.
  18. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    durwood wrote: "It's the same forumula he used to make the original trilogy the enduring classic that it is. And the fact is, it's working."

    and the circle continues.
  19. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Hmm, One Hour Photo sounds suspiciously like the plot of Red Dragon.

    Anyway, what part of this topic title do AL, DrEvazan, etc. not understand? I told Tokyo to create that dumbest reasons for liking AOTC topic so that you guys would leave us alone.

    Not that I don't enjoy your company, of course :)
  20. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
  21. PlastiqPhantom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 5
    I still hold to my opinion that if GL put a clown in the background of the arena scene, just a clown that had happen to lose his way and now is just wandering around trying to find whatever it is that he was looking for. It would make it the greatest star wars movie ever!!! and possibly the greatest movie of all time!
  22. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    And the fact is, it's working.

    Well, you see, that is a fact because Attack Of The Clones is raking in close to $400 million at the box office and has consistently won "Best movie of the summer" polls on various internet sites.

    When I said, "It's working" I meant merely that Lucas is making fun films that a lot of people want to see multiple times. For films that according to the bashers are supposed to be unsuccessful, the prequels sure are doing phenomonal business. I wonder what the basher rationalization is going to be when the AOTC DVD flies off the shelves?
  23. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Well, you see, that is a fact because Attack Of The Clones is raking in close to $400 million at the box office and has consistently won "Best movie of the summer" polls on various internet sites.

    It has not even crossed $300m domestic. You know what they say: a hundred million dollars here, a hundred million dollars there; soon enough, it will add up to real money.

    And those internet sites, I love them. They remind me of one of the finest lines of the tremendous "Groundhog Day".

    "People like blood sausage too. People are morons."
  24. yoda900 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 3
    Fact: Blue whales are the coolest creatures on earth
    Opinion: the Sears Tower is 1,454 feet tall.


    What is wrong with this picture?

  25. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    It's not a picture?

    (Though according to our good friend pooja, it is art)
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