ST What's "the hook" that Lucasfilm will be betting on, which sells Ep IX as a must-see blockbuster?

Probably because each ST director was, effectively, blindly throwing their single-episode-narrative against a wall - and leaving it to the subsequent director to find out what stuck... and run with that.

I think in *jj's* mind, Rey was most definitely a main character when he made TFA. In Rians mind while he made TLJ? I dont think so. End result? Nobody knows what to think.

If you asked me whether Rey was a main character, id have said for TFA she was being prepared / positioned that way yes - and for TLJ, no, it had no interest in continuing with that.

 

Well, uhh.... it seemed completely clear to me Rey is the primary protagonist. I think the idea she wasn't is just bizarre. <shrug>

 

I always thought Captain Candy was the primary protagonist, and I got very confused when he didn't show up in TFA and got blown up at the beginning of TLJ.

 

That may be true. But I think if it is, it's where the problems with this trilogy have been rooted. It shows that there was no laid out plan and no definitive direction or even general direction. It's like that game where one person says a sentence and then the next person adds a sentence and so on and so forth in order to create a story. The person who started it probably has an idea of where they were going but once it gets to the next person, it's gone. Then when it comes back around to the first person again, they will probably try to swing it back to what they originally planned but it won't look anything like it did.

You are right that Rey was rather sidelined in TLJ. However, things were still from her point of view. It was just that her own story was not from her own point of view. Her visit to Luke was about Luke and Kylo. Her confrontation with Snoke was about Snoke tempting Kylo to kill her. And then when Snoke was dead, it was about Kylo's next move.

BUT JJ centered his story around Rey. No doubt in my mind he will do the same for IX but also give good depth to Kylo.

 

I'm in the camp which is completely puzzled as to how Rey would not be viewed as the main protagonist of TLJ.

If anything she strikes me as more central to TLJ than TFA, where the POV's were split between her and Finn, tilting in some ways toward the latter.

In TLJ, the two main threads are Rey's (with small side scenes for Luke) and the Resistance plot which shifts POVs as it unfolds. It seems to me that all of the Kylo stuff is more in service of Rey's story than the other way around, but that's just me.

In any case, Everything in the film hinges on Rey's choices from start to finish. It's a logical middle chapter for her, and I don't think JJ has to do much at all to glue the films together to make them primarily her story. How he's gonna sort out the plot... well, that's a hell of a challenge, and one concern I do share with your average ST detractor is... yeah, an overarching plan might have been nice (to put it mildly).

 

From this thread so far, it seems the most common suggestion for a compelling hook is: Luke. And with news today that Mark Hamill shaved his beard, ~2 weeks before IX filming begins, lets go wild with speculation:

What if Hamill not only was reappearing in IX (which wouldnt surprise too many people here)... but was going to appear in a de-aged form. Whether he comes back in a younger corporeal form somehow until his 'task is done' (like Gandalf!) ... or whether its simply in flashbacks where Mark Hamill is playing his younger self and de-aged.

The de- aging techology used on Kurt Russell (GotG), Sean Young (Blade Runner 2049) and Michael Douglas / Michelle Pfeiffer (Antman) is stunning.

I can imagine a lot of people would be intrigued with the thought of a younger Luke onscreen again, and I think it would be a compelling hook for mass audiences. Luke Skywalker.... is back? No, not that old jaded cynic hermitt Luke we saw in TLJ, but a younger more fresh faced Luke.

 

No, I want an old Luke Skywalker that is actually Luke Skywalker as we knew him and not a grumpy or de-aged Luke Skywalker.
And I want this Luke Skywalker doing his Luke Skywalker business to help a new generation to continue this franchise in an interesting way.

I do not need a grumpy or de-aged Luke Skywalker as I do not need a suddenly comical charming Kylo in Episode XII and I do not need a dark side cruel Rey in Episode XIII.
All I need are characters that do not get twisted and turned just to fit to a certain story idea.

 

Which is the point as TFA says she is the primary protagonist to Kylo Ren and TLJ says she isn't because it has to be Luke. Except the thinking is to destroy Luke, undermine Rey then pass the primary protagonist role back to Rey while at the same time undermining Ren so you're left with two underwhelming adversaries. Ren can't possibly defeat Rey and Rey is still a mystery as to why she is where she is.

So what hook is there for IX? We know Ren can't possibly defeat Rey and we have no real reason as to why Rey is who she is. So no hook. It will have to be generated elsewhere.

 

I agree that it being the finale alone doesn't quite cut it currently. ROTJ had the conclusion we'd been building up to plus the Luke/Vader thing and the Solo/Carbonite thing. ROTS had a MAJOR hook: Anakin vs Obi-Wan and Anakin finally becoming Vader. That was easy.

Having saved Snoke and planning a nice familial reveal for Rey would have been nice. But on the flipside, Kylo would not be the leader of the FO without Snoke dying and if they plan a surprise now for Rey it will be more shocking. They should have made Kylo defeat Rey in TLJ and/or make Kylo a more powerful, stable leader of the FO. Keeping Luke alive in TLJ would have been useful too as it would have kept the question as to how they will bring him back into the resistance alive.

There are little things they could have done to make the plot they DID have in TLJ more of a hook for IX. But other than just beating Kylo or redeeming him, there wasn't much left. I suppose the idea was Luke telling Leia "nobody is truly gone" was supposed to be the hook. Because the question of how to stop Kylo isn't much of a hook since Rey kicked his @$$ already. That's why they almost NEED to have Kylo defeat Rey early on and showcase that in the trailers. Then the marketing could be about Rey finding out who she REALLY is (whether it be family or her place in Jedi history) after being beaten.
So it's all up to the trailers and marketing to create the hook:
* Show the relentlessness of the FO by showing the horror they are creating
* Show Kylo as being the leader Snoke could have been if he were younger and more ruthless than Vader.
*Show that Kylo has TREMENDOUS powers.
*Feature and/or tease the Knights of Ren so people know they are coming
*Perhaps tease the destruction of the Millenium Falcon
*Show Rey in despair and tease that she WILL find out more about her family whether she is related to the Skywalkers or not so that people know they will find out more of her story
*Feature some new plot angle (Finn getting stormtroopers to turn, young "Forcies" being hunted, etc.) so that people want to know what it is all abuot
*Leia's voice-now THAT will haunt people and make them wonder what is going to happen

 

Yes but that would mean doing that in the movie and revealing it before the movie and JJ doesn't do that.

At this point it's desperation time. I would have an "Episode 8.5" that would be released free digitally that would set things in motion for IX. I'd make it about 15 minutes long and it would be a prologue to IX featuring Ren and Rey and showcase the points you have above. They have a showdown and there is a reason as to why Ren has gained incredible power. It might be some Sith ritual whereby he taps into the Dark side so he can match Rey. The old Ren has to be gone and replaced by a version that isn't at all any version seen in the last two movies. He needs to be a threat and there has to be some direction for Rey where she can have actual growth.

 

@Qui-Riv-Brid That would certainly be a unique method of marketing. A prologue to Episode IX to tease. Not a teaser itself but an actual short to prep things. Nothing like that has ever been done before.

I do think that JJ is going to have to tease fans a bit or let it be known that we should expect something. After OW is too late for people to find out that the movie has elements that we want to see. You don't have to say how it will go plotwise but just tempt folks with what mysteries IX will answer and tease with visuals. At this point, knowing there will be some Knights of Ren is MUCH better than showing mysterious figures and finding out they are the KOR after the fact. Gotta hook 'em for OW because OW determines the end result in this case.

 

Something similar was done with The Matrix. Before Matrix Reloaded was released, they dripped out The Animatrix series (collection of 9 animated films - fleshing out key moments in the backstory / events of the Matrix universe). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Animatrix

And Ridley Scott did it - a few substantial scenes for Alien Covenant were released prior to the film as well in this fashion, showing key moments or adding backstory, using the films actors. Examples are the "Crew Messages" series and the ~5minute "Last Supper Prologue":



So the idea of putting some prologue scenes out (in some form, animated or acted) isnt without precedent. I think it could be a great idea. All depends on what prologue events/scenes they wish to show.

If I was going to indulge and go wild making up a fantasy prologue scene, set between TLJ and IX (where Leia is still alive, and Luke is a ghost but still around...): a dimly lit feminine silhouette (implied to be Leia, maybe we see the ring on her hand from TLJ) is shown meditating - and we hear the voice of Luke Skywalker speaking to her.. "You must... feel the Force". Implied to be training Leia. Which could be used as backstory for when its revealed in IX that Leia is now a force ghost / how she managed to become on.

That might be a bit far-fetched fanboy for a prologue, so something more reasonable would be like showing the very moment Lando first receives / reacts to the Rebel transmission sent at the end of TLJ. (since its expected he'll show up in IX - but unlikely its the first he hears about the rebellions predictament the very second he shows up). Kindof like a "Sir - sorry to interrupt, but you have an urgent transmission" scenario where he sits down to hear Connix talking about how the resistance needs help.

 

Wasn't the Luke at the end of TLJ exactly what you're talking about?

 

An interesting thought to pull in a hook...I would say for a teaser, two moments I think would get people talking. One would be probably if you have Thrawn (since he's known now) or someone from the Chiss welcoming them to the Unknow region. Something short with Lando and...possibly a hint that Snoke isn't dead. That would be something that I think would make people go "What the hell?!" and want to see where it goes. Who are these blue guys, what's the connection between probably Maz and Lando, and how is Snoke still alive.

Longer trailer I would say, focus on Rey learning more about the Jedi and give hints that what she thought was the truth wasn't, have Poe being suddenly thrust into a larger role in the political scene with Lando. Have Finn reading the Jedi books and maybe give a hint that he might be force senstive and that he didn't know it, or Rey teaching him. I would even say with Rose, have her step into Finn's "Normal human" role in that she can become the character that's the one that helps them out. Maybe some shots of Luke and again, hints of the Unknown region with the Chiss and Snoke. That's my best bet here.

 

I think this would have the same type of attraction as the "Chewy, we're home" line did in TFA trailer. Maybe not as big, but definitely would be a big positive element instead of the dark negative dramatic things TLJ tried to attract people with. This is the sort of positive "Hook" this movie needs to attract some of the disenfranchised fans.

 

God, no.

 

I think there's only about three concepts that would get me pretty excited at this point.

First is Lucas's original idea for the ST of having force ghosts come back into the flesh. So Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin, and Luke could go kick some FO butt.

Second would be something dealing with Mortis. It showed up at the end of Rebels but the story with it still feels unfulfilled. Perhaps Anakin/Luke could be come the new father, with Rey as the new daughter and Ben as the new son.

Third would be also be tying into the end of Rebels. What mystical events did Ezra and Thrawn witness in the unknown parts of the galaxy? Could the return back for EP9?

 

JJ could have Luke travelling in and out of the spirit world/Force ghost realm. Luke approaches Kylo and he dismisses him as a Force Ghost by waving his ignited saber “through” Luke. Imagine his surprise when Luke’s ignited saber physically blocks Kylo’s.

 

"OW"?

 

Opening Week.

 

Aaaahh!! Thanks

 

"Lando's in it."

 

Yeah Lando's in it. Not the draw we need but still cool.

The "hook" will have to come before the movie's release this time around. The "wow I wonder what that is" is great but will have to be handled differently this time. TFA had the "wow a new SW film" draw. RO had the "wow the death star and boy was TFA great!" draw. TLJ had the "TFA was great, so was RO, now we FINALLY get to see Luke and learn more about Rey" draw (only to apparently let a LOT of fans down after initial inevitable first weekend draw). Now, none of those matter. TFA's allure no longer registers. The most previous SW film, Solo, will be LONG forgotten after not having made much of a dent anyway. People are polarized about TLJ which didn't leave any cliffhanger. Nothing from previous films has the power of draw for IX. At the current moment, it's just a closure to a trilogy that has lost much of its luster and a franchise which, while not at all dying, has truly waned (and nobody can deny that fact).

Remember when, probably a year ago, most of us believed that they could just slap the SW brand onto anything and it would be a monster hit? Yeah. Not so much. This time they have to reinvent the wheel but I think that JJ can do that and will. Creative hooks and marketing are imperative now, ESPECIALLY because people will have spent so much money at the movies already in 2019 by December.

 

Also if Rey is by some slim chance Luke's daughter normally you'd think they'd be using that has a hook for Ep. 9 but considering TLJ went out of its way to say that she's "nobody" I'm guessing the marketing department isn't going to turn around and say, "we know TLJ said Rey was nobody and for a lot of people that put the parentage question to rest...BUT! here's some footage and cryptic dialog that will get people speculating that maybe she actually COULD be Luke's daughter".

Ha. Who am I kidding that's exactly what they might do! Get ready for a voice over saying "you thought you knew the answers...but you only know them...from a certain point of view".

 

Now THAT would get people talking about a teaser trailer for Ep9! And it would be consistent with Yoda's staff knocking Luke on the head...