PT Whats up with Jar Jar Binks?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Aaronaman, Nov 10, 2013.

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  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Point taken there, I was referring to the idea of a "let's discuss what we like about Jar-Jar" thread as being good, not a "let's discuss how people disagree with me suck" thread and assumed the OP was going for the former more than the latter.

    I didn't see Jar-Jar as a racist caricature but I understand the argument.

    My father tried to watch TPM and turned it off halfway through, asking why the Neimoidians had Asian accents. (That wasn't why he turned off the movie, he just generally didn't like it.)

    Sure, Lucas has had over-the-top characters, but some people have a limit on how much over-the-top they can handle. I think Michael in The Office and Tracy Morgan's character in 30 Rock are too over-the-top to be watchable, but those shows are popular.
  2. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Whey you say dialect do you mean his grammar?

    my bold
    WHAT?
  3. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Were they? I know many that always found 3PO annoying. In fact, I can't see how people can criticize Jar Jar's antics and yet be fine with 3PO's behaviour.
  4. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    R2 and C3PO's bickering in the OT beats Jar Jar hands down. R2 in ROTS beats Jar Jar hands down.
    Malcolm Reynolds likes this.
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Yep. The comparison was to Stepin Fetchit, who was the first successful black actor, but his success was filled with what is considered racially insensitive these days. The real man, Lincoln Perry had crafted a character arch type of the "lazy" black man, during his days as a stage performer, before going into films. His characters were all comic sidekicks that lazy and poorly educated, with even worse grammar skills. "Amos N' Andy", Buckwheat from "Our Gang"/"The Little Rascals" and actor Willie Best would all imitate Perry. If you ever watch the film, "The Ghostbreakers" with Bob Hope and Best, you can get a good idea of what I'm talking about.

    And Watto was accused of being a riff on Jews. Then there were the Fett clones which prompted accusations of trashing Mexicans because of their skin color, their cheap labor and that the plant was named Kamino, similar to El Cameno. Mind you, all of the Fett actors were from New Zealand and were not Mexican.

    Yeah. That and his accent.

    A lesser known complaint was that Jar Jar was linked to the idea homosexuals shouldn't serve in the military, because they would be a liability. I think in part because they would panic in a combat situation and automatically surrender, or run away in terror. This is more commonly believed from the more effeminate homosexual males. If you have seen Nathan Lane in "The Birdcage", then you'd have an idea of the stereotype. This was applied to Jar Jar because he runs away during the Battle of Naboo, gives up when surrounded by the Battle Droids and always panics at the sight of something scary. My response to this is that if Jar Jar was a homosexual due to cowardice, then so was Scooby Doo and Norville "Shaggy" Rodgers. This was a subject around July of 99. It didn't gain traction like the racial claims.
  6. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4

    [face_laugh]
  7. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Jar Jar is just a happy-go-lucky lizard man who helps a sad queen reclaim her planet.

    What's not to like?
  8. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Why do people think that the Neimoidians speak with a Asian accent? I don't hear it

    I can not comment on his accent but when it comes to his grammar, to my understanding he is supposed to speak a creole languages and I find it fully acceptable as made up creoles go.

    How in Korriban's all Sith did people come up with this theory?
  9. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    While it might sound hare-brained and downright hilarious, it likely has, if you'll excuse the pun, more sinister origins:

    http://www.villagevoice.com/1999-06-08/news/the-nelly-menace/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco_Demolition_Night

    Interestingly, a similar hatred -- though perfectly "sane", "rational", "objective", "principled", and "aesthetic", of course -- today accompanies the name "Justin Bieber", his soft, high-voiced dulcet tones, and his boyish, near-androgynous image ... albeit, to *some* extent, divested of the African-American element.

    Just my 0.02 cents.
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Nov 10, 2013
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    My Dad doesn't post here and I rarely pay attention to that sort of thing so I can't tell you why some people thought the accents sounded Asian. *shrug*
  11. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    You might want to check out on Youtube some clips of Charlie Chan, which was a white man playing a Chinese national, with a really bad accent.

    Most didn't see it that way, which shows how narrow minded some people could be.


    I have no idea.
  12. WatTamborWoo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2011
    star 3
    Jar Jar was the first major CGI character to interact seamlessly for over 30 minutes within a movie.

    [IMG]

    Along with Watto and Sebulba he is a technically creative work of art. He was intended to be a Buster Keaton bumbling type of character.

    I prefered watching Watto interact with Quin-Gon but to be honest the kids who saw TPM really liked him.
    SlashMan and Count Yubnub like this.
  13. Aaronaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2013
    star 3
    Firstly, hahahahahahahaha....secondly, I clearly stated in my first post 'in my opinion' so for you to add your little tid bit sorter makes me laugh because you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of??!!

    All I was trying to say in my thread was hey you know what I don't think Jar Jar's as bad as everyone thinks and that maybe people have decided to just go along with every one and not give him a chance.....if you like Jar Jar cool and if not then fill your boots because that's fine as well just as long as you've come to that conclusion yourself and not just followed the negative SW 'fans' who seem to thrive on bagging every aspect of every film.

    ...........mind you that's only in my opinion :)

    ????????????? That's it folks I have officially now heard it all 8-}even if it was remotely close to being true Jar Jar was a General and actually, in his own way, took down a lot of Droids himself??!!
    Last edited by Aaronaman, Nov 10, 2013
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  14. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    You really know how to seduce a man / boy / girly-guy with an image...

    I LOVE IT!!

    The association of Jar Jar with roaming beasts is palpable!

    The fanning ear flaps, Qui-Gon's hair -- many characters in TPM have these drapes / head extrusions.

    The archway that connects the two.

    The disagreement in shadow.

    Orange tones, blue sky.

    The equalizing concept of height.

    How these two are kind of confidantes to each other (watch Qui-Gon turn to Jar Jar when Anakin says, "Sandstorms are very, very dangerous")

    Their odd -- somewhat misfitting -- place in SW history.

    It's soooooo good.
    WatTamborWoo likes this.
  15. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, the Gungans' language has always come across to me as a creole language:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_language

    And it seems perfectly reasonable that the SW galaxy would have creole languages in it.

    Makes it grittier. [face_plain]
    Last edited by Count Yubnub, Nov 10, 2013
  16. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    What do you mean with grittier?
  17. Darth Eddie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2013
    star 3
    When this particular point is brought up, I like to point out that Ahmed Best is an African American, and that George Lucas gave him fairly free reign to express and characterize the role of Jar Jar. For this reason, the notion that Jar Jar is a racist portrayal of a black person is outright preposterous. And I especially reject the idea that Gungans in general exhibit racial stereotypes, because I have never seen human of any color behave even remotely like a Gungan.

    Same goes for Watto and the Nemoidians - Those who see Star Wars aliens as racist portrayals should probably take a closer examination of themselves.
  18. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    There's a thread on the Episode 7 board about people that want Star Wars to "get back to its grittier roots." Gritty, per Merriam-Webster, means uncompromising realism--something that Star Wars is, well, the opposite of. In other words, I was mostly being facetious... mostly.
    Last edited by Count Yubnub, Nov 10, 2013
  19. Loupgarou Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2010
    star 3
    Of course you haven't ever seen a human act like a gungan; it's their similarity to caricatures that's unsettling. And not even modern racist caricatures, but older caricatures of slaves. There is a similarity there. I don't believe that there was any intent to make the gungans this, but someone in the process should have noticed and said something.
    Really though, gungans are the most defensible ones. Watto fits every negative stereotype of a Jew i can think of, while having an exaggerated nose to seal the deal. And the nemodians fit the whole evil corporate asian stock character template, plus being fish people. In these cases, i think it's unfortunate cultural osmosis. These stereotypes are ingrained into larger archetypes now, and it's not obvious until they're given alien form where it can be physically seen.
    So once again, i'm not accusing anyone that works on star wars as racist. I am accusing them of not ever taking a step back and seeing if they're saying something they don't mean to.
  20. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Here's some grit for ya'...

    VIOLENCE!
    [IMG]

    AND NUDITY!!![IMG]
  21. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Why is nudity gritty? And were can I find a larger version of that pic?
  22. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Personally I find him more of a red neck than a jew and the nemodians are to me more British or Dutch than asian
    "fish people"?o_O How are they fish people?

    EDIT: Ops; double post[face_beatup]
    Last edited by Gamiel, Nov 10, 2013
  23. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    I can understand Mon Calamari, Quarren, or even Sullustans being described as fish people, but Neimoidians?
    Last edited by Mr. K, Nov 10, 2013
    Gamiel likes this.
  24. Loupgarou Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2010
    star 3
    Well certainly not to the degree of the Calamari, but I've heard multiple non-star wars fans call Nemoidians Fish People.

    Now here's the thing; i actually like gungans. Jar Jar not so much, but the gungans i think are a pretty cool and funky alien race. Similarly i don't think nemoidians are all bad though i prefer Skakoans when it comes to Separatists. I just don't think that every one who sees racism in these characters are simply looking for it. It's a larger societal problem that some older, less than sensitive ideas get meshed into places they don't belong. Sometimes intent isn't all that matters.
  25. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    I liked Jar Jar as a kid, which is probably why I can stand him now. Though if I were bitter man-child, maybe he wouldn't be my cup of tea.
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