What's your beef?

Discussion in 'Edmonton, AB' started by Rogue_Thunder, Apr 17, 2006.

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  1. Rogue_Thunder FanForce CR, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2003
    star 6
    I brought it up at the meeting on Friday, but it was quickly passed over, because I think a lot of people don't want to face this issue, but I feel this fanforce has communications issues. If someone has a problem with someone else nothing gets said. Instead resentment builds up and a lot of behind-the-back-talk and gossip develops, which is never a good thing for a group of people like this.

    A case in point would be the issue of John's CR-ship. Granted it's been more than a year since he was last really active, but no one took the time to actually TALK to him. I've pm-ed him hundreds of times since his sabattical and he's always gotten back to me promptly, whether it's a board issue, or something else. He has an email address and he's always willing to talk over the phone, and yet no one talked to him about his activity as CR. Instead I heard a lot of "Where's John?" and "Howcome he hasn't been to events?" and the like, and while I'm "E.D." (no special ed jokes :p ) and I don't mind answering questions, I think it would have been far more productive to just PM john and find out what was going on with him.

    But that's just one of many specific incidences in this group where no one tried communicating their issues. That's why I created this thread. I figure we're all adults in the figurative sense, if not the literal, and that we can discuss our issues with each other, if any, so instead of just talking about a persons activities that you find aggravating, or annoying, just bring it up here (or try PM-ing them if you don't feel comfortable making it public) and give them a chance to respond themselves.

    Just make sure to stick to the TOS, and be civil and try to keep criticism constructive. Remember we're all human beings here and we need to keep that in mind. :)
  2. LDS_JEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 10, 2006
    star 1
    I agree with you Berx...

    There are communication issues in this group. I've thought of leaving it behind several times... instead I take a break from posting...
  3. SHAAK_GG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2005
    star 4
    Why?
  4. Achilles_of_Edmonton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2005
    star 4
    I'm sorry I'm not clear on this. Leave what behind exactly? Have you actually been to an event yet?
  5. Rogue_Thunder FanForce CR, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2003
    star 6
    I'll let Shawn explain why, but to answer your question Mark, I've seen Shawn more than I've seen you this year man :p ;)
  6. Rogue_Thunder FanForce CR, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2003
    star 6
    I'm going to post why I think no one would make a better choice for CR than John. Note that the following isn't the only reasons I support him.

    First I'll start by listing the core group of people who have both been around the boards long enough and are consistent enough about going to events that could be CR:

    Terry
    Liann
    Jason
    BerX
    Shanna
    Connnor

    Now if I haven't included you on this list, please don't be offended. It just means you're a relative newcomer, and possibly after a few more months of consecutive attendance would you make a possible candidate.

    Secondly I wanted to establish the "ground rules" for a CR as we established at the meeting last Friday. One of the conditions is that you should be able to go to a good majority of the events. Even the costumed ones. Another condition was that they be available as a contact person for said events, as well as an organizer.

    Now I'm going to state why I think none of us really has the qualifiction

    Terry - Terry isn't a people person. She has leadership potential, and she's organized, and she gets things done, but she doesn't show the qualities of a CR, by dealing with issues people may have with her. A case in point would be a PM I sent her more than a year ago regarding some issues I had with her (it was between the two of us). She never replied to me in any manner and left the issue unresolved. John has always gotten back to me promptly and rationally when we've had issues to be addressed.

    Liann - She has expressed no interest in the position. She would make a decent CR, but she doesn't have the take-charge-attitude and really only makes decisions when no one else has, or will. She does have good organizational skills however, and maybe in the future she could fill the position quite adequately. She also works on shift, which can be a hindrance.

    Jason - Jason, while he has poorer organizational skills than Liann or Terry does have a confident attitude and has the ability to take charge, but he works strange hours, so if an events were consecutively any other day but Friday or Saturday I can't see him being able to book off that much time.

    BerX - I do have the time, usually, and I can be organized, but like Liann, I can only make decisions when no one else has made them, or I get impatient, and I don't have the attitude and the confidence to be a contact person or to approach outsiders. I can be reserved around newcomers in the group until I've gotten to know them.

    Shanna - Just know that I love you like a sister when I say this, but no one understands Shannanese! ;) :p (j/k) Shanna has decent organizational skills and has no trouble approaching people, but she's as indecisive as I am, and doesn't have the take-charge attitude. Not to mention that she has expressed absolutely zero interest in the job.

    Connor - In 3 years he might make a great CR. He's got a good attitude, but some anger issues when it comes to certain young actors. ;) The big issue is that according to board policy you must be 18. In three years I may nominate them. If we're around that long ;)

    Now I just want to mention that the preceeding is not a criticism of PEOPLE. You're all great people, good friends and I respect all of you highly, but when it comes to CR, it's clear that John is capable, and if it weren't for his sabbatical (and if people had previously bothered to communicate to him his need as CR) then there would likely be no question of his leadership. He knows the situation now, and he had asked for a second chance to prove himself.

    I say he deserves that much from his previous exemplary service as CR. :)
  7. Achilles_of_Edmonton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2005
    star 4
    Yes well I understand those exact circumstances. I'm not one for games nights per se. I'm more inclined to be there for the bigger more socializing type of events, if I have the time that is.

    But I've also had a lot going on. A relationship that I choose to devote time and attention to because it is very important to me and it's where my future is. Right now I'm also producing and directing a very large scale project. I'm managing and overseeing a crew of over 200 people. I set deadlines for having 40 page shooting schedules and then have to stand by them. I have to make sure everything is going as planned because I have over 20 people flying in to Edmonton from all over the globe over a 3 month span to work on this project. I have to make sure all of the set pieces and costumes are ready, that the lighting grid is functional and in correct position. I need to book flights, organize exactly who, what, when and where I will need things positioned. I have to deal with setbacks and then work twice as hard to catch up when they occur. I have to make sure we have the budget to cover any expenses we haven't forseen.

    I do it because I love it and I have passion for it. Every day something new happens that makes me realize exactly how huge this is going to be. We have Jeremy Bulloch and Zach Jensen, not only enthused about performing for us but investing in the company as well.

    This project is going to launch a company that I'm starting from scratch and become a flagship for us, raising the bar and setting a standard, not just in fan related film but in the entire Independent film genre period. It takes a lot of work and a lot of time but it's a cause that I know everyone involved will get a lot out of. I'm making Secrets of the Rebellion because I think fans deserve to have this story told the right way.

    So if I miss a mallwalk because I have something more productive I could be doing than spending 4 hours painting my face and walking around a shopping centre, it's because I'm making an investment in something I have discovered to be much more rewarding. I certainly don't look down on people who do these things because I was a total convention junkie for a few years myself, everyone knows that. But now I don't just frequent cons, I present at them. I get to give back to that community what it gave to me, inspiration.

    At least I don't post to say I'm going to be somewhere and then don't come. I can't tell you how often Jay walks through here ranting and raving about this, that or the other thing and I'm starting to see his point. I think I finally get now why he wanted to leave the fan force in the first place. I also understand why he stuck around. He's invested quite a bit into the group and wants to make sure the image put forth is a positive one. Basically he wants to make sure it's in good hands and being handled properly.

    Look, whenever you get people from multiple different walks of life, attitudes, opinions, ages and professions into one big group like this you're going to have friction. It's a fact of life and this thread is something that's been needed for awhile. Face it, if it weren't for Star Wars, what would any of you really have in common and would you even be hanging out with each other on a regular basis without it? If you guys want things to work out in this group it's going to take work, and everyone taking ownership of their own shortcomings.

    IMHO the 'he said she said' act should stop and someone should step up to the plate and be a CR. The job is not that hard. Babysit the site once in awhile, be a liason to the outside world for booking stuff, answer a question here and there and show up to at least a 3rd of the events. Most of all, just have fun.

    What happened to that directive?
  8. Rogue_Thunder FanForce CR, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2003
    star 6
    First of all Mark, just know that I ain't harping on ya for not coming to events. You've got your own bag and that's cool, man, and I know what you mean about Mallwalks. Costumed events in general just aren't my bag. If I wanted to go out and walk around I have miles of empty road to do it out here.

    Secondly, I want to say: "Well said". I'm glad someone else agrees with me that we need to be more open with each other, and you bring up another good point: When did this group stop being about having fun?

    Ask yourselves that question while you're thinking about the CR position. It should be something fun that you wanna do for friends, not a job. Most of us already have one of those.
  9. Achilles_of_Edmonton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2005
    star 4
    Ok this brings up the question of what do you deem as an official fan force event?

    Is it a public gathering of any kind? Does this mean games nights, movie get togethers of three or more people, and costumed events or just the costumed events. Cause I can tell you right now, cons local to Edmonton will not be nearly frequent enough to have monthly or bi monthly gatherings that could be considered an event.

    You might want to define what an event is if it hasn't been defined already.
  10. LDS_JEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 10, 2006
    star 1
    Well Mark.. let's see...

    "Yes well I understand those exact circumstances. I'm not one for games nights per se. I'm more inclined to be there for the bigger more socializing type of events, if I have the time that is."

    Notice the part in bold for just a moment. Now, "leaving it behind" in my statement is the whole kit.. the whole shebang... why? Well, the cliques around here might as well offer a blood oath for one, and the "My costume is the best ever so don't try" attitude is a good show stopper for someone new to the scene outside of personal fandome.

    Second, I realize you have your own bag of tricks.. and hey all the power to you. But please, do not put the idea that you are working on a fan film above the lives of others. I may not be begging people for $5000.00 to fund my hobby but I am trying to support a small family with plenty of health issues. Let's look at a brief re-cap of things I've done as a "labor of love" as you put it... Let's see...

    * Joined into different groups to help expand and enhance my own fan experience
    * Nearly lost a 9 year old son and was put into a position to decide if he lives or dies multiple times in one month.
    * Watch as my Wife's health slowly but surely melts away and consistantly wonder when we'll be back in the hospital again.
    * Based on my Wife's health I am the only one working - I just lost my job due to a store closure.
    * Was re-baptized last year into a Church I had once left and I am seeking to have the Priesthood restored to me.
    * Was recently married after a messy divorce that took nearly six years to work out

    So some good some bad.. par for the course right?

    I can understand why you would rather do something else than show up at a silly mall walk, but let me tell you something.. your target audience and your wishful fans were at the mall walk.. chances for some great publicity and advertising were at the mall walk... but then I guess the mall walk was below you since you're just too busy. Oh wait, I wasn't their either.. I had to work. When missing a shift has a large impact on a small family you take what you can get. But then, if you can't make it.. show some support for those who did. If it wasn't for them keeping the spirit alive so to speak, then movies like yours and others wouldn't make it past the average FanGeek and may never be seen or cared about by the public at large.

    Mark you're a good guy, and you have more on your plate than many could handle.. I wish you all the luck, I truly hope your movie and family are a success. But please hop off the high horse once in a while to meet the common folk... you might find us friendly and less likely to rip you limb from limb. :eek:
  11. SHAAK_GG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2005
    star 4
    Not picking any sides here, but:

    Very well said LDS.=D=

    But like I said, I am not picking any sides. Everyone has good points and bad points, nobody is perfect.


    When did someone say that?
  12. Achilles_of_Edmonton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2005
    star 4
    I don't know who told you their costume was the best ever so to not bother because it sure wasn't me. I seem to remember you emailed me once asking about ideas for costuming and I provided several ideas and options on the subject. I even extended an offer for you to use my machinery if you needed to and I also offered to teach you how to construct some of the items you may not know how to build yet.

    Second, I never put the concept of the film above anyone else. I specifically made a point of pointing out that everyones interests are equally valuable because of what it holds for the indidvidual regardless of scale or cost to pursue. Just in case that point wasn't registered it ought to be now.

    Furthermore I am begging no one for any particular amount of money to fund any hobby. I am simply running a promotion right now that changes terms once it reaches a certain level, allowing people to take part in a growing company. A company I have spent hard earned money developing. I have written business plans, made financial investments of my own and registered my company as a corporation in the province of Alberta. I offer financial rewards and gains in return for participation of interested parties, not asking for handouts. I am putting $50K into this project to help launch the careers of everyone involved. This is no mere hobby, it's a chosen profession. Everyone involved values it that way and takes it seriously which is why we are able to do what we do and I will thank you to respect it as such.

    It is too bad that you have had to deal with such hardship in recent times. Some of it I can relate to out of personal experience, some I cannot and I sympathize with your situation but I do not find it a suitable excuse for becoming judgemental. When I commented about posting to say someone would be at an event and then not showing up, I meant in general. You are not the only one who has done this. John and Berx have done it too, hell maybe even I did it a time or two. I'm just throwing something out there. You obviously took it personally but if you read my post you will see that I did not single you out.

    You may have just referred to the mallwalk as "silly" but I did not so please don't read between the lines with me. When I write something, there is no between the lines. I mean exactly what I write and nothing more. I never put down the mallwalk or the people who participate in it. I simply used it as an example of events I may not be able to attend due to other duties. If I could have made it, I would have.

    And lastly, I don't presume to place myself above anyone or think of myself as better than anyone here. If that were the case, I wouldn't even bother posting here anymore. I would simply disappear quietly from the face of these boards forever because that's what someone who doesn't give a rip would do.
  13. LDS_JEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 10, 2006
    star 1
    Mark,

    This thread is for open communication... not a flame war. I won't argue with you over differences in points of view. We both have good points and we both have flaws.

    For example, my response about events was to your direct question to me "I'm sorry I'm not clear on this. Leave what behind exactly? Have you actually been to an event yet?" and not to the general statement you posted later of " At least I don't post to say I'm going to be somewhere and then don't come."

    Like I said, I won't argue with you over this... I posted what I posted to support the idea of open communications. If I wanted you to know the exact person I meant with my comment about the costume I would have posted a name. But to be clear, I wish I had the e-mail you spoke of... I would have quoted your thoughts on the topic, they weren't all too encouraging -- though from your perspective honest and I accept that.
  14. liannb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 5
    um berx you didn't post any reasons why you thought John would be a better cr than the rest of us, just why we wouldn't be.

    i'd just like to say in defense of myself, that i can have a take charge attitude and can make decisions, i just haven't because i'm not in charge, its not my place too be making decisions for the group but when needed to i do step up. if i was i would have, and i'd like to say that the comment about my shift work was a low blow and a lame reason, i come out to everything, i've maybe missed a few games night due to work but other than that i never miss an event.


  15. Achilles_of_Edmonton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2005
    star 4
    Liann are you saying you would like to be CR?
  16. ms_ventress Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2004
    star 3
    Liann is the best!

    She is the most awesomest girl ever... and it is true she never has missed an event! I still remember the first costume meeting I met her. She is one of the coolest girls I have ever met.

    She deserves a million roses.

    @};- @};- @};- @};- @};-

    (bahhh the boards won't let me do more that five roses.... but Liann still deserves a million)
  17. liannb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 5
    i'm sorry, i overeacted.

    Berx is of course intitled to his opinion as everyone is. perhaps a better way of approaching it might be to tell us why you think John should be CR as opposed to why everyone else shouldn't be (i know i'm repeating myself from my other post) I really don't think your going to win over anyone to your way of think by telling all of us why we wouldn't do a good job of being CR, nobody is perfect, we're just a fan group, we're not trying to run the country here, and i'm sure whoever is eventually chosen as the new CR by the group will do a great job with the support of the group. Please remember it is John who decided not go forward with the vote. i know i was against it at the time, but after thinking it over i was willing to give him another chance but then he decided against it.

    Change is good, if the new CR doesn't do a good job then they can always be replaced but at least give someone the chance before judging weather they will do a good job or not.
  18. Achilles_of_Edmonton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2005
    star 4
    That sums it all up right there.
  19. Indigo_Jade Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2002
    star 5
    Please don't take what I said out of context, I did NOT say I didn't want to be CR anymore. I said I wasn't going to ask to be allowed to "stay on" because I didn't want to cause problems in the group and be the cause of any fighting between people.

    I do still want to be the CR of Edmontooine.
  20. liannb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 5
    sorry i didn't mean to take you out of context, i never said you didn't want to be CR anymore, i meant you decided not to go ahead with the vote and that was your decision we were all willing to have the vote.

  21. Indigo_Jade Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2002
    star 5
  22. Achilles_of_Edmonton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2005
    star 4
    Then forget the squabbling and ask yourself if you're up to the task?

    Can you perform the following? Show up to about a third of the events give or take, be the go to guy with answers to the questions people may have and coordinate the fan forces involvement in events and post the times and locations of said events?

    If you can do that, I say keep the position.
  23. jellicle_jedi73 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2005
    star 4
    block, flat, microphone, rampy piece, some one pass Terry a vent quick!!!

    A year ago righ now, we the EDMONTON FANFORCE were kicking butt all over INDY! Lego connects guys, c'mon. We did not even get to practice ensemble and we still rocked. That is because everyone worked together as a team, and knew each others strengths and weaknesses.

    i am not really sure what LDS and Mark are arguing about as it does not seem to have anthing to do with the topic at hand, really, but nevermind.

    Liann i do not think that Berx meant anything by commenting on your shift work, he commented on Jays too. I think his point was more to illustrate that EVERYONE has limitations.

    i also think he was pointing out that up until John came upon tough times, people were please w him.

    he also had a valid point in that its not fair to complain about John to everyone but John. that is counterproductive.

    Maybe you all should try going for a few months with a committe instead of a CR. there are cases where the title of CR is just a title and there are actually one or more people in charge, its just that the FF prefers there to be one name. Ceartain people i know almost made up a fake person to take the position of CR. Becase there is really more than one. hehe

    anyway remember, we build a freakin Star Destroyer Four Times. We rock, and simply put you all have more talent and action going than most of the other chapters combined. Play on your strengths guys, and may the force be with you.


    by the way, i nomiminate myself as CR. as i am incapable of getting to any of the events and as liann can tell you for sure, i am totaly unable to answer the phone!!!! BUT i love you all, and i parley shannaese.

    thyt wy icnbe a rely good crjustlek bannana

    hugs and kisses
    adi

  24. Domino_Leia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 3
    Wait, I'm so confused now. 8-} I must have misread your post as well because I thought you wanted a second chance, and then you posted that you didn't, but you really did? Okay, I think I have it straight. Right?[face_worried]
  25. SHAAK_GG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2005
    star 4
    OK, everyone take a chill pill and just relax.

    There is going to be fights. You cannot avoid them. We make it a up later on. But what is the point of this thread? Isn't it to share your thoughts? LDS did, and now that has escalated into a fight. But we must all relax and see that it is just going back and forth now.

    Maybe this is the reason people keep their issue bottled up? When they post them, a fight begins? Everyone has to be more open to other peoples opinions.


    Could be a good idea if this continues.:)


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