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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

What's your preferred viewing order for the Saga, and why? (Mine is IV, I, II, V, III, VI)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Pazuzu, Jun 10, 2009.

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  1. drg4

    drg4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2005
    So it's come to this, huh, folks? Adults forbidding children from watching space-wizard movies which they feel compromise the integrity of older space-wizard movies? Deranged. Absolutely deranged.


     
  2. Dark--Helmet

    Dark--Helmet Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2003
    O THE HORROR!

    What an evil guy!
     
  3. drg4

    drg4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2005
    It's not evil; it's patently absurd.

    I'm the most zealous ROTJ critic in all of fandom. Hell, I don't even consider the movie canonical. But if my little nephew wanted to watch it, I'd sit with him and take satisfaction in the delight that the movie would inevitably evoke in the little guy.
     
  4. Boba_Squeak

    Boba_Squeak Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2007
    More than that, it's empty posturing.

    As I've just been talking about in another thread, you have certain individuals coming here to cause a ruckus, posting in contravention of the core of this place's purpose and function.

    This forum: STAR WARS SAGA

    This thread: What's your preferred viewing order for the Saga, and why?

    If you don't recognise the PT, then you don't recognise the saga, and if you don't recognise the saga, you don't have anything meaningful to bring to this thread. It's simple logic.

    Saying you won't let your kids watch the PT or you hate the PT and must act like it doesn't exist can be stated ... and then what? Yes, thank you, goodbye. There's nothing of any substance that such remarks and such mentalities can add to the thread. It's mindless attention-seeking. No more, no less.

    The funny thing is that these people then try and turn it around and make out they're being persecuted. But how, exactly? One doesn't go to a stamp-collecting site and berate people for collecting stamps. Some people have issues that run deep. I personally wish that they'd stop inflicting them on the rest of us.
     
  5. Merlin_Ambrosius69

    Merlin_Ambrosius69 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Yes, I see that too. The (jar-)jarring stylistic shift between the two trilogies, which is enhanced by alternating episodes OT to PT or vice versa, can easily be chalked up to a shift in cultural aesthetics and socio-political events over the course of the 30+-year difference between TPM and ROTJ. "Contemporary OT" and "Classical PT" is an excellent shorthand for this idea.

    Boba_Squeak, you've commented a couple of times on others' viewing orders, but you haven't yet offered one of your own. Do you have a preference for any one order?
     
  6. halibut

    halibut Ex-Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Yeah, I'm not particularly happy with the continual tendencies for this forum to become a new bashers sanctuary. There's nothing wrong with not liking the PT, but enough of the drive-by bashing without anything substantial to add. I've said it before, but if one prefers to deny the existence of the PT (which is your right), then this really isn't the forum for you. We have a CT forum where you can discuss the wonders of the CT all day and night. But this forum is for ALL the films.
     
  7. Boba_Squeak

    Boba_Squeak Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Merlin, that's a good interpretation, but I don't hold it to be totally accurate, for my own person, at least. What I think it is more accurate to say is that, yes, ship designs change, holograms go to colour and so on, but what's really going on is Lucas deliberately showing then omitting. That is, Naboo and Coruscant are still technically "there" in the story of SW as the internal chronology of SW continues from the PT into the OT, but they are no longer the focus of the story; conversely, in the PT, they are critically important places, and their design motifs are an essential part of the PT's look and appeal, because Lucas is using them to structure the PT and saturate it with a more "epic" feel. Perhaps this can be best understood in terms of Dagobah. While a vast planet, no doubt, its surface feels clammy and claustrophobic, stressing Yoda's closeness with nature, adding to the personal nature of his training of Luke (we never see Yoda training anyone so intimately in the PT) and his personal connection to the Force and resulting philosophy, just as the tight confines of the cave add dramatically to Luke's very personal encounter with a phantasmagoric Vader, and literally, an inner part of himself. Lucas evokes the cave and Luke's "failure" within it in AOTC and the hangar where Obi-Wan, and, critically, Anakin, confront Dooku. Here is a wider, brighter, less intrinsically-threatening space, and when Anakin fails, he is instantly rendered unconscious, as if unaware of his fate to forces larger than just himself, which is radically different to the way Luke gradually gains enlightenment, due to much tighter and more palpable circumstances, the contrast made that much stronger with the severing motif, where Luke loses a hand versus an arm, is wide awake when it happens, screaming in pain, and gets it replaced with a much more organic prosthesis. Have I made any sense there? I think I may have muddied the waters of what I was trying to say.

    My preference remains IV-VI, I-III. I think it's wonderful to see the progression of the story in production order, and a flowering of Lucas' imagination, which is also commensurate, in an odd but satisfying way, with a sharpening of focus across the six pictures. Ian McDiarmid is a very intelligent man. He has said that Star Wars could be subtitled "Fathers And Sons". If you were to look at Star Wars through any lens, that is the one it is almost brutally consistent through. In every film, and each successive film, there is an almost overwhelming agglomeration of father-son detail and subtext. Again, it is very satisfying to see this in production order, to me, especially as I see, in my mind's eye, Lucas tightening the link between Anakin and Palpatine in each prequel, which itself is built out of an unarticulated paternal relationship between them in the first trilogy (which simply began as the solution to a problem -- i.e. Vader needing someone to answer to in
     
  8. PoodooWarrior

    PoodooWarrior Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 22, 2005
    If you like all 6 movies, here is the perfect way to tell the story:

    Episode IV

    Episode V

    Episode VI - up to the point where Obiwan talks to Luke on Dagobah
    (stop the movie at this point)

    Episode I

    Episode II

    Episode III

    Episode VI - continue on after the Obiwan/Luke discussion, as that could have been one big flashback story of Obiwan telling Luke, and the viewer the backround of how everyone got to where they were in the movies so far.

    This will preserve Star Wars as a standalone movie so a newcomer can enjoy it like 1977. Then by not showing them the PT yet, they can be shocked by the revelation in ESB. Then by showing them the PT, before the ending of ROTJ, they won't know the fates of Luke, Leia, Han, Emperor, Darth Vader, and the Empire, so that is still left in tact.

    Try it with a newcomer!
     
  9. Merlin_Ambrosius69

    Merlin_Ambrosius69 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2008
    No, that makes perfect sense and I am in total agreement. Anakin's losing an arm and falling unconscious further relates to his nightmares about his mother, during which his arms are symbolically constricted beneath the covers, as opposed to Luke's visions about his friends, in which he too is suspended, but by his own power and his own choice, with his arms held out from his body in balance. It's an interesting contrast or series of contrasts. I also see what you mean about Lucas' choice to focus on the more organic designs of Naboo in the PT, and the fact is that the "chunkier" designs which are focused on in the OT are indeed present in the PT, as we can see in the various Corellian ships docked on Naboo as A & P land in AOTC. That said, this contrast could be used to bolster the contention that Naboo and its curvaceous and organic sense of design has fallen out of favor in Imperial times, replaced by the blockier, chunkier and more practical design that was present in the PT but not as prevalent. Anyway, I'msplitting hairs and you make some good points.

     
  10. DarthBane95

    DarthBane95 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2009
    I saw episode 1 first when I was 5 but after right when the movie got over I went Shopko and bought the OT on vhs. I dont hate the PT but OT is way better. The main problem with PT for me is the all cheesy lines and Hayden Christensen.
     
  11. Dark_Lord_THX_1138

    Dark_Lord_THX_1138 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2009
    IV, V, VI, I, II, III. For me. I think that's the best way to view it. But it would be interesting to see how you feel about the saga if you saw it in chronological order from TPM first, I suppose you would find it more of a tragedy than others may do.
     
  12. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    I love this subject.
    I was an original OT fan. Taped the trilogy off TV.
    Liked the SE's, but assumed they were a one-off deal.
    TPM came out, and my SW obsession waned. I liked the action, didn't HATE Jar-Jar, but just didn't know anything about or care about the characters.
    I watched AOTC the day it came out, a high schooler, and I left with only one tight white clingy memory.
    I never bought the DVD's.

    I watched ROTS the summer it came out, not expecting anything. The Palpatine-Sith revelation actually came as a BIG surprise to me. I knew Palpatine would rise to power, I knew he would turn evil, but being that Episodes I and II were never in my mind, I always assumed Palpatine would be seduced by Sidious in Episode III.

    So, to me, that surprise is central to the saga. That being said, I watched episodes 1-6 with all my college buddies the day Episode III came out on DVD. ZZZZ was the general consensus as soon as episode IV started. Return of the Jedi never seemed so lame. Never tried it again.
    Recently, I was told about Adywan's SW: Revisited edit. When I watched it, the possibilities of a cohesive saga in my mind sparked anew, but again when I tried to watch the 1-6 saga (by myself this time), I began to doze off midway through Episode 4.
    My new theory was that in order for the prequels to make sense, the OT movies had to be watched first. I tried what has been called in this thread the Alternate Alternating Trilogy method. But as it has been pointed out, Episode 1 clashes with ESB real bad, and Episode 2 is a real letdown after ESB as well. I gave up right there.

    Finally, I tried the Alternating Trilogy method. Perfection. The best part of course was IV-II-V-III. THAT is the heart of the saga. Though I do indeed love The Phantom Menace, its storyline is mostly inconsequential. What I like most about watching EpI before EpIV is that they take place in the same universe, so while Episode I situates you within a completely unexplained universe, which is what I believe George Lucas had in mind. Episode IV situates you within the world of the Force. What about Return of the Jedi? Oddly enough, none of the SE changes bother me following ROTS, but George should have used different Anakin footage. Instead Shaw's "I'm proud of you, son" look, Hayden seems to be saying "I's gon git cha. In ya dreams. Wooo..." but who cares after 12 hours of Star Wars?
     
  13. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008
    I usually watch it in this order - Episodes I thru VI. Or sometimes, I'm simply in the mood to watch one particular movie.
     
  14. Avian005

    Avian005 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2009
    I prefere to watch them in order

    The Phantom Menace
    Attack of the Clones
    Revenge of the Sith
    A New Hope
    The Empire Strikes Back
    Return of the Jedi


    Unlike fans who grew up with just the OT (I got to see the Special Editions in the theatre), I grew up basically with the entire saga. I watched IV-VI before the prequels, but I was seven when TPM was released, and I've lived off that. Therfore I do not hate any one of the six amazing films. I find TCW to be my icing on the cake.
     
  15. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Another thing that doesnt work for me watching I-VI is that the OT is about an hour shorter than the PT. The characters kinda come out of nowhere in the OT, making IV, V, and VI seem like an afterthought. Ya know?
     
  16. QUIGONMIKE

    QUIGONMIKE Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Ive done both myself. I watched them all with a friend and his son and we did them in the order they were released: 456, 123. We also watched them a second time in chronological order: 123456.

    He and I both prefer watching them in the order they were released or filmed. Something just feels better about it. Maybe its because going from EP3 to EP4 has totally different feel to it and it doesnt work as well as going the other way did. The prequels are more modern looking and have a slightly different tone so thats probably some of it too.

    Either way is fine, but 4,5,6,1,2,3 is best IMO
     
  17. ZEM

    ZEM Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2009
    I have watched them 1-6 several times, and even though I've never tried it 4-3, I think in order of the internal chronology would be my preference. It brings a sense of awe to it that way. And I like seeing how the light side wins out in the end.
     
  18. Merlin_Ambrosius69

    Merlin_Ambrosius69 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Several months on -- big surprise! -- I'm changing my preference again. Watching the above "Triple-A Method", as I've discovered today, does not preserve Yoda's mystery, showcases a plethora of new Jedi powers that feel super-powerful compared to the low-key Force usage in IV, and generally employs characters, imagery and themes that are more resonant after having seen V.

    Therefore I'm currently testing a new quadruple-A method -- IV, V, II, VI, I, III -- and will report back with the findings soon.
     
  19. halibut

    halibut Ex-Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Whilst I can totally understand mixing and matching the OT and PT, I don't get how you can't have IV and I first in their respective trilogies. Both IV and I introduce the characters inherent in their own stories. I don't understand how you can put II before I. Who is Palpatine? Who is Amidala? Who is Windu?

    I think I'm gonna have a IV-V-I-II-III-VI day soon.
     
  20. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2000
    Serious question: how could you know Palpatine was the Emperor-to-be and NOT recognize that he and Sidious are the same person? Sidious in TPM/AotC resembles the RotJ Emperor more than the RotS version...

    I mean, I can understand not catching that they're the same guy if you've never seen the OT, but the first time Sidious shows up in TPM, the Emperor's Theme plays very loud and clear...
     
  21. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Well, when I saw Sidious the first time, I must have just thought. "Oh, he's evil just like the emperor."
    And when I saw Palpatine in TPM the first time I just thought "Oh, thats Palpatine before he turns to the dark side."

    I gave very little thought to Episodes I and II when they came out, because they just didn't feel like Star Wars to me. I probably didn't even go "Oh, that's Darth Sidious" the one time I watched AOTC.

    BTW, I tried watching episodes I-VI in order again. It's growing on me.:)
     
  22. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2000
    Fair enough. It's just weird for me to think how someone could reconcile this

    [image=http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/4928/esb-emperor.jpg]

    and this

    [image=http://www.slschofield.com/star_wars/emperor_palpatine.jpg]

    as the same guy but think this

    [image=http://tomgpalmer.com/wp-content/uploads/legacy-images/Lord%20Sidious.jpg]

    is someone completely different, especially when #2's theme music plays whenever #3 comes onscreen.
     
  23. Merlin_Ambrosius69

    Merlin_Ambrosius69 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2008
    But II introduces characters in the same way I does: as though you already know who they are. We might ask the same questions -- "Who is Amidala?" -- of part I. The answer is of course: "The Queen", just as with II the answer is "a Senator". "Who is Windu?": "A Jedi Master". That's all we need to know. All the important character information is given quickly and early, as with all the other SW films, including IV. Part of the Saga's appeal is that events always begin in medias res: "in the middle of things". Staring with II, the audience is no more in the dark about who these people are than if we started with I or III.

    My problems with putting I directly after IV or V are that, first, I is so visually different, so busy and "cluttered" with visual data, that cinematically it simply does not compare favorably with the older films; and moreover, the child-oriented nature of the story and characters of I represents too sharp a contrast to the more mature approach, stylistically speaking, of IV and V.

    For these reasons, I believe I is best positioned near VI -- either before or after. Since the chronological release order was VI-->I, my mind is already conditioned to accept this, and further, IMO the story of I is non-essential (read:apocryphal} to understanding the origins and motivations of the characters.

    To me TPM is a sort of after-treat, a bit of fun-n-games icing on a more serious cake.

    Please let us know how you think TPM compares, visually and thematically, after feasting your senses on ESB.

    EDITS: Pesky formatting!
     
  24. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    ESB "palpatine" was "THE EMPEROR"
    ROTJ "palpatine" was "THE EMPEROR (Palpatine)"
    TPM "palpatine" was "Senator Palpatine" or "Lord Sidious"

    "Sidious" neither had a face or a name that I recognized, so I just thought Palpatine was Palpatine, and that he'd become the emperor.
    Of course I feel dumb NOW, but I probably wouldn't have enjoyed ROTS as much if I'd made the connection off the bat.
     
  25. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    And then there's the Emperor's theme being played at the end of TPM, but I confess I didn't realize what it was at the time...[face_blush]
     
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