What's your problem with feminists?

If it's a private club, I'm not sure there's much that can be done about it.

What about organized sports where women are not allowed? If women wanted to play major-league baseball and could play as well as most of their male counterparts, shouldn't they be allowed? (Maybe they are; I don't know.)

And is there anything more insulting than "women's chess"? ?

 

Wars are a life and death matter. We should take people that are definitley fit. There shouldn't be any "giving people a chance" in a situation like that.

Sorry, you're right. I'd much rather draft those who don't want to fight than give people a chance who do want to fight.

I have a problem with statistics that do not show if time taken off work for child bearing/rearing is taken account of, experience, and years in the field. Secondly, really all it proves is that women are willing to work for less. I know women who make the same wages (or more in some cases) as men in the same positions.

This is a good point chibiangi, and if anyone can find comparisons of women's vs. men's salaries taking maternity into consideration I would be very appreciative. I would find them myself but I have a terrible headache right now. And while it's true that sometimes women will work for less, they don't always have the option in some areas.

 

If women wanted to play major-league baseball and could play as well as most of their male counterparts, shouldn't they be allowed?

As far as I know no professional sports are exclusive towards women, but let's face it, could WNBA players compete with NBA players?

NO

Therefore, they have their own league.


o]||||{ -------SaberSlinger-------

 

I don't have a probelm with feminists . . . I'm all for destroying the crap that women get for being women.


Although, I have experienced situtations in where women get jobs over certain men through politcs, even though the other male is more qualified. Its probelms like those in where if the women didn't get the job-- people would bitch at the company for having no female managers.

 

Let's not be hasty and label "feminists" as one monolithic group.

It's been my experience that when people complain about feminists, they don't mean the twenty-something woman down the street who wants to be treated fairly at work without the neanderthals leering and groping at her. Most of the time they're referring to the hardcore "leaders" of the feminist movement that get plenty of air time on television news and make vitriolic speeches at rallies.

Just as environmentalists as a group get a bad rap due to the actions of small sects such as ELF, modern feminism has been plagued by the backlash against the few who claim to lead the movement and claim to speak for all women.

 

Stumbling around on the same site as before I found this, which may help to explain different theories.

And I couldn't have said it better myself, Herman.

 

And I think that is an important difference in the extremist feminists and extremist pro-lifers. The feminsts that I have seen from the media are the extremist kind that want to go beyond equality, or equality in things that just can't be equal, such as physical.
I have yet to see a known abortion clinic bomber speak out on FoxNews.

I think that we should have equal pay for equal work. However, when a woman is physically weaker than a man, and is doing a job that needs physical strength, if the woman cannot do what men do, I do not think she should get paid the same. Case in point: A woman firefighter cannot lift the hose, yet gets the same amount as a man who can. However, if the woman can do the job just as well as the man, of course she should get the same wage.

 

"Wars are a life and death matter. We should take people that are definitley fit. There shouldn't be any "giving people a chance" in a situation like that."

Well I agree that women should not be given easier training than men. If men and women are gonna be equal, they gotta be equal in every way, including the standards they are held to. But if a woman can pass every obstacle, every test, every part of training as the men, I see no reason why she shouldn't be allowed to serve.

 

"What about organized sports where women are not allowed? If women wanted to play major-league baseball and could play as well as most of their male counterparts, shouldn't they be allowed? (Maybe they are; I don't know.)"

As far as I know the four major sport leagues: NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL ae not men only. In fact I'm pretty sure that there was a female goalie in the NHL for a little while, can't remember which team. But for the most part women can't compete with the professional male athletes and tha's why there aren't any in those leagues an why they have started their own leagues

My problem with feminists is that the only ones that seem to be left aren't interested in equality. They're interested in women having superiority. Feminism for the most part is an outdated concept. I think we're at equality. They only thing holding it back is individuals' biases and there's not much we can do about that.

 

It wouldn't hurt to give the movement a new name. Call it "Egalitarianism" or something. The very term "feminism" sounds sexist.

 

I already said I considered myself more of an "equalist."

 

I agree with Rebeca on this one

Yeah, I want to be able to have the same opportunities as men even though I'm a woman, but that stuff has been accomplished! Feminists today seem to be searching for a way to get extra advantages, and they call this 'fair'? Sorry, I'm not buying it. I don't want something handed to me just because I'm a woman.


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Did anyone read the page I linked to? I really think that people you have encountered are the extremists. I've seen plenty of environmentalists on the news, just as Herman said, who live in trees and believe that we should kill all the loggers. This doesn't mean I disagree with environmentalism just because I've seen the extreme of it. The people that scream the loudest get the most coverage, as it is with any group. I could make the generalization that all Christians are book-burning nazis, because a church near where I live recently held an actual book-burning. I see Jerry Falwell spouting his crap on TV all the time. It doesn't mean that I believe all Christians are like that.

And, for solojones, here's a brief list of causes feminists have been fighting for lately:

They have been working to help the women of post-Taliban Afghanistan. They have donated money and helped to get health care centers for women and contributed a good deal of money toward building better schools where women will be allowed to go. They've also started many support groups for the Afghani refugees in Pakistan.

They have worked hard to fight Bush's funding of abstinence-only sexual education programs and had several workshops that teach birth control methods. They have also supported places like Planned Parenthood which give birth control options to women without insurance.

The UNFPA, or United Nations Population Fund, is designed to help reduce the rate of pregnancy and STD's in developing countries. The Bush Administration recently cut $34 million in funding because it may go to fund coercive sterilization and abortion in China, though Bush's own handpicked investigative team has shown nothing of the kind. UNFPA representatives have actually said that Bush's lack of funding could mean 2 million unwanted pregnancies, 800,000 induced abortions, 4,700 maternal deaths, and 77,000 infant and child deaths. Feminists have been fighting for the UNFPA.

They have funded and volunteered their time at countless rape crisis centers and shelters which house victims of domestic or sexual abuse (male or female, in most cases) who have nowhere else to go. They have also supported women's self-defense classes, focused on rape prevention.

Contrary to popular belief, many feminist groups also support men's rights. In fact, the Individualist Feminist movement works in conjunction with male activist groups to work toward true equality. Their site has some very interesting information I'm sure you would all be interested in. I encourage you to check it out.

 

They have been working to help the women of post-Taliban Afghanistan. They have donated money and helped to get health care centers for women and contributed a good deal of money toward building better schools where women will be allowed to go. They've also started many support groups for the Afghani refugees in Pakistan.

Just a side note, Mavis Leno has been working to help the women of Afghanistan under the Taliban for a few years

It kind of cheeses me in a way that the women's issue was never in the public spotlight until post-9/11.

 

Nothing wrong with Feminism. I agree that in some ways...women are still being held down by men.

There is a difference btween an honest to god feminist and a crazy, looney FEM-NAZI.

The feminist is trying to level the field between sexes.

A FEM-NAZI is a hateful, spiteful person who believes that women can do no wrong, and men are the only ones to blame. (In some cases they are).

To any woman who chooses to stay home and take care of the kids...

You are doing the hardest of all jobs, and you should be celebrated...not bashed by your own kind.

 

"It kind of cheeses me in a way that the women's issue was never in the public spotlight until post-9/11."

It was for me. I'd known about it for some time. Of course, I also used to post at chickclick, so I might not be the best example of the average guy

 

They have worked hard to fight Bush's funding of abstinence-only sexual education programs and had several workshops that teach birth control methods. They have also supported places like Planned Parenthood which give birth control options to women without insurance.

To my knowledge, please show me that I'm wrong, Bush is not funding abstinence-only sex education. Bush doesn't FUND anything, he either signs or does not sign said funding as submitted by congress. But Congress isn't, I'm sure, passing any such legislation. Planed Parenthood doesn't want abstinence taught at all. This is a group that sued Operation Rescue under anti-trust litigation. Planned parenthood doesn't want to loose their cashflow. And our unconstitutional government funded schools have been the biggest proponents of ANY abstinence teaching. So I don't know who is teaching any of this abstinence you refer to.


The only people who have done anything for Afghan women have been Christian groups. The only thing groups like NOW and Planned parenthood want is to subjicate the US to the UN and try to force us to hand over more tax money for world-wide abortion on demand.

As far as women in the military, well, if you changed the standards tomorrow and told all the women they had to meet the male standards withing six months, you would loose 90% of the women in the military. It isn't even that they can't, it is that they won't. As far as the tough jobs go, I have a theory called the 1% rule. 1% of the women out there could compete in the toughest military jobs. 1% in my opinion is not worth turning the military upsidedown.

I could talk all day about reverse sexism in the military, but I'll leave it there..

 

Here's an instance where Bush alone overturned Congressional funding:

"the president froze the funds Congress had just appropriated for the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) for FY 2002. A few weeks later, in his FY 2003 budget proposal to Congress, he asked that funding for the U.S. Agency for International Development's family planning and reproductive health program be cut from the FY 2002 level and that no funds be allocated to UNFPA.Shortly thereafter, the administration began using the opportunities presented by various United Nations (UN)-sponsored global meetings to aggressively export its domestic "abstinence-only" campaign as well as its antiabortion views. Further,
the administration began using these meetings more generally to distance itself from the worldwide consensus on reproductive and sexual health issues that the United States itself was instrumental in forging at the 1994 International Conference on Population and Development in Cairo and the 1995 World Conference on Women in Beijing. " - From the Alan Guttmacher Institute.

This was widely reported in TV/print media when it occured.

Here is Planned Parenthood's discussion of abstinence from their webpage:

Abstinence

(edited to add website)

 

It is within the president's power to withhold funding for organizations if he so chooses. An excellent example was the funding for states towards maintaining their highways. When many states began to raise their drinking ages to 21 from 18 in the 80s, Reagan withheld funding until states, such as Louisiana, raised their limit.

 

Well it is nice of Planned Parenthood to provide that information, albiet burried in their website. But what do I find when I go the homepage, the lead story:

Young Women Would Stop Using Birth Control if Their Parents Were Notified

This is one of those things that defines modern feminism. The desire to remove parents from the loop because they (the feminist in question) feel they can run childs life better than you. In addition to telling parents and the world that young girls are just a bunch of uncontrollable animals that will have sex anyway, we should provide this nifty service where we provide medical advice to children without the parnet's knowledge. Planned Parenthood also supports teenage abortion without parental notification. Chalk up one Problem I have with feminist

 

To my knowledge, please show me that I'm wrong, Bush is not funding abstinence-only sex education. Bush doesn't FUND anything, he either signs or does not sign said funding as submitted by congress. But Congress isn't, I'm sure, passing any such legislation.

Yeah, cause I'm sure we all assumed I was talking about Bush handing over cash to teachers personally. Anyway, Here's some links about Bush and the whole abstinence-only thing: here, here, here, here, and here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A477-2001Jul28&notFound=true. (The link is too long to actually link.)

Planed Parenthood doesn't want abstinence taught at all. This is a group that sued Operation Rescue under anti-trust litigation. Planned parenthood doesn't want to loose their cashflow. And our unconstitutional government funded schools have been the biggest proponents of ANY abstinence teaching. So I don't know who is teaching any of this abstinence you refer to.

Um...I never said that Planned Parenthood teaches anything. I said that Planned Parenthood gives contraceptive options to women who don't have health insurance. I'm confused about these unconstitutional government-funded schools you refer to. Would you care to elaborate?

The only people who have done anything for Afghan women have been Christian groups. The only thing groups like NOW and Planned parenthood want is to subjicate the US to the UN and try to force us to hand over more tax money for world-wide abortion on demand.

I'd like to read your sources on this. NOW is not the only feminist group, you know. In fact a good deal of feminists disagree with many of the things NOW says. Here's a few organizations that have donated money and formed action teams to help Afghanistan women:
The Feminist Majority
The Tahirih Justice Center
The Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan
Equality Now
V-Day

As far as women in the military, well, if you changed the standards tomorrow and told all the women they had to meet the male standards withing six months, you would loose 90% of the women in the military. It isn't even that they can't, it is that they won't. As far as the tough jobs go, I have a theory called the 1% rule. 1% of the women out there could compete in the toughest military jobs. 1% in my opinion is not worth turning the military upsidedown.

What a fascinating theory. I'm sure all the women in the military agree with you 100%

Edit: This is one of those things that defines modern feminism. The desire to remove parents from the loop because they (the feminist in question) feel they can run childs life better than you. In addition to telling parents and the world that young girls are just a bunch of uncontrollable animals that will have sex anyway, we should provide this nifty service where we provide medical advice to children without the parnet's knowledge. Planned Parenthood also supports teenage abortion without parental notification. Chalk up one Problem I have with feminist

Planned Parenthood is NOT the only feminist organization that exists. If you want to disagree with the things that they say, go right ahead. But just because they happen to be feminists does not mean that all feminists support them either. I'd say their interests are more pro-choice than feminist anyway, since their primary function is women's reproductive rights.

 

unconstitutional government-funded schools you refer to. Would you care to elaborate?

Yes. Could you please tell me where in the US Constitution it says, the right to taxpayer funded school system. It is a joke I use when people tell me that they are against "under God" in the pledge because it violates the establishment clause.

What a fascinating theory. I'm sure all the women in the military agree with you 100%

I don't care if they do or not. Some actually do. Having been in 13 years, and 5 of it as a SEAL, I have plenty experience by which I form my opinion.

I will read your Washington Post articles.

 

I will read your Washington Post articles.

They're not all Washington Post. I have plenty more if those aren't enough.

 

Reagan withheld funding until states, such as Louisiana, raised their limit.

I hate that. I hated it when Clinton did the same thing to force states to adopt a national .08 limit for drink and driving violations. Only a couple of states had above that, and none more than .10. In both cases it was just another excuse to nationalize something.

 

I think parents should have the right to know if their underage daughters are seeking birth control. Parents should have the right to know what choices their kids are making, and sit down and talk to them about these choices. And I think abstinence should be stressed in sex ed, but I think birth control methods should be taught as well.