What's your problem with feminists?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by womberty, Aug 16, 2002.

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  1. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    "You can argue with Planned Parenthood all you like, but when your insurance plan doesn't cover contraceptives and you (or your wife) has to pay $360 a year just to avoid having a baby, you may change your mind.

    If you want to have sex, and you want to avoid the consequence of pregnancy, why do I have to pay for it? I don't understand that. If I want to eat a lot of fast food, and I don't like the consequence of getting fat, will you pay for my gym membership?

    "Meanwhile, within 2 months of its release, more than 50% of prescriptions written for Viagra were paid for paritally by insurance. "

    I'm not totally sold on the idea of Viagra being covered either, but at least that's a legitimate answer to a physical problem. Birth control is a means of personally avoiding the consequence to a freely chosen action. There's nothing wrong with that, but tell me why it's my responsibility to make sure you don't get pregnant.
  2. Maveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    Can you tell me why you are paying to keep someone from getting pregnant?

    I personally, would think an insurance company would want to pay for birth control pills. It is far cheaper than paying for prenatal care, delivery, and recovery in a hospital every few years.


  3. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    If you want to have sex, and you want to avoid the consequence of pregnancy, why do I have to pay for it? I don't understand that. If I want to eat a lot of fast food, and I don't like the consequence of getting fat, will you pay for my gym membership?

    Why should you pay for anything, for that matter? Why should you pay for Social Security? If people want to get old and don't want the consequences of being poor they should have to save up the money themselves.
  4. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    "Can you tell me why you are paying to keep someone from getting pregnant? "

    Because the more money insurance companies pay out, the more they have to collect from everyone in premiums.

    "I personally, would think an insurance company would want to pay for birth control pills. It is far cheaper than paying for prenatal care, delivery, and recovery in a hospital every few years. "

    This is true, but again, why should I pay for someone else's parental care, delivery, and recovery?

    "If people want to get old and don't want the consequences of being poor they should have to save up the money themselves"

    What's wrong with that?? Social Security is something we are all FORCED to "contribute" to (well, most people anyway), under the belief we will get the money back later in life. That being the case, I'd just as soon make my own decisions how my money is saved.
  5. Maveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    This is true, but again, why should I pay for someone else's parental care, delivery, and recovery?



    Because that is the deal when you buy insurance? Because it is better to pay X amount of dollars a month and have to have surgery that cost tens of thousands of dollars and you only have to pay your deductable than to pay the tens of thousands of dollars?

    Am I missing something in your arguement?
  6. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    Insurance should exist as a means of voluntary protection against financial disaster. The concept being, such disaster is likely to only strike a small percentage of people. So to reduce your risk, you pool with other people who also want to reduce their risk.

    I don't see where getting free contraceptives falls into that. Unless there is "unwanted pregnancy insurance", which I have no problem with as long as I can voluntarily opt out of it.
  7. dustchick Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 1
    Back to gender roles for a moment:

    I've seen boys and girls of various ages participate in science outreach programs. I'd say that, until early teens, boys and girls are equally interested in science. Afterwards, girls show up on the arms of boys and wait patiently for the boys to leave.

    It is my opinion that the girls aren't less apt at science, but that by the time they are teenagers, they are socialized to believe what their role should be. How many of you have heard the joke that girls go to college to get their MRS degree?

  8. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I've never been interested in science, not even when I was young. I found it either boring or gross.
  9. Leia_Solo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2002
    star 1

    I am the same way, once I understand it, I feel so stupid. *shrug*
  10. Maveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    There is indeed a pregnancy insurance that one can get if they are trying to become pregnant. However, it must be purchased prior to becoming impregnated.
  11. TeeBee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    I love science, and was good at it as well as English in school. Math was difficult once we got into algebra. Like tenorjedi said, I had trouble with abstracts. But I could learn it if I applied myself better. I probably would have gotten even more into science if math had come easier, since anything beyond high-school science, particularly astronomy and chemistry, requires a good grasp of math.

    Also, on the genderized toys, I had some of each, dolls and trucks, and played with both kinds my cousins and friends had as well. But my favorite toys were genderless: bikes, pails and shovels, swingsets, and the Fisher-Price 'Little People' community. These are the kind of toys I'll buy for my own children someday, not just Barbies OR Tonkas. And lots of educational books and a good set of encyclopedias. :)
  12. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    Yes, there are diffenate gender rolls for kids today, but it is still a persons choice.

    But the argument here is that children are influenced long before they reach the point of making that choice. Don't you think people can be taught what to like?


    That may be the case, but it is made out to sound that women should not be diffrent (again, by the extream annoying feminists). The feminists that annoy me are the ones who wont concider any other options other than somehow blaming men or society.

    The point I want to make is that women may not really be that different. It's nearly impossible to test that hypothesis when you can't find a child who hasn't been influenced by their surroundings.
  13. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    Oh, I think women are quite different in at least ONE respect.

    How else do you propose babies be born?
  14. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    I have on small problem with feminism. Cleary women are capable of preforming the same tasks and duties as men at the workplace, but at what price. As far back as we can view are history, women have always been the primary caretakers of home and family. Now, it seems, more and more, children are being placed into daycare situations and being raised at school. While I understand this has now become almost a neccessity, I believe in the long run it will hurt us as a whole. In fact, I believe it already has. I don't know who started the notion that a woman taking on the role of Mother was somehow inferior to a working woman, in my opinion it should be viewed as THE single most important job there is. Period. Of course, this is all my opinion.
  15. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    But what is it that's so wrong with a man staying home and taking care of the children? I know lots of people that have been raised by stay-at-home dads who came out just fine.
  16. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Nothing wrong with that! It just doesn't happen to often. I can understand wanting something more, I just think that after the dust has settled, we all really lose. Do you know what I mean?
  17. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I know what you mean, I just don't really understand what it has to do with feminism. If a woman wants to work all day, then either she should hold off on having kids until she's ready to raise them, or she should find a man who would be willing to stay home with them.
  18. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I think it's important that children be raised at home by one parent. And often it's simply better for the family if the mother do it, because the father can make more money, and the children will then be better provided for.
  19. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    This is an excellent example of how our society resists change. How many men out there are truly willing to give up a chance at a career in order to raise their children? But many of them expect to find a wife who would do just that. And they will find willing women, because there are so many who have been told that it is the greatest job they could ever have and that it is something they want to do. They're told this in many ways: what their parents tell them, what they see around them, what they eventually perceive their role in society to be.

    I'm not knocking the women who choose stay home with their children. I'm asking how many men are being told that staying home to raise their kids is the greatest job they could ever have?
  20. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Rebecca, one of the reasons that women make less than men over time is because many women take time off to give birth to and raise children.
  21. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    ". I'm asking how many men are being told that staying home to raise their kids is the greatest job they could ever have? "

    Well, I for one would love to. And I can't post here the names I've been called because of that. So it's not just women who take abuse for it.

    Why can't people just let others decide what's best for them, instead of imposing a duty to do one thing or another in the name of some kind of -ism?
  22. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    Women still make less for the time they are there though, don't they?

    Anyway, my parents always encouraged me to have a career. But what I WANT is to be a stay at home mother. I love my kids, I want to have kids, and I want to be there to raise them.
  23. TeeBee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    If a woman wants to work all day, then either she should hold off on having kids until she's ready to raise them, or she should find a man who would be willing to stay home with them.

    Good point, gwaernardel. And I, for one, do not care if it is me or my future husband who stays home until the kid is of school age, as long as one of us is there to answer questions, be a playmate, or kiss boo-boos.

    Don't you think people can be taught what to like?

    Yes. Another reason to not swing the pendulum so far to the other side that we glorify jobs that either put women in danger (truck driving) or negate or outright demonize their predisposition towards certain fields (kindergarten teacher).
  24. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    A couple of points,

    I think feminism change that mentality because it was that movement that urged "equality" and "pushed" women into the workplace.

    As far as it being the "greatest" job they could have, that is a bit misleading. A better way to state it is that it is the most "important" job anyone can aspire to have.
  25. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    A small aside:

    A male poster who I was corresponding with via PM just had to say goodbye for tonight, he had to leave to cook his children dinner.

    :)
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