Amph [Wheel of Time] A Memory of Light (HTR spoilers allowed)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jek_Windu, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Mat's letter to Elayne is absolutely hilarious. I was stop reading for a few minutes, I was cracking up so hard.
  2. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    I agree he got Mat spot on this time. On pg 700 something now and the only real compliant I have is how much Wolf dream etc.. and Avenida's ter angel bits are in here. I get bored with those fast...
  3. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    I admit, I basically skimmed a lot of Perrin's chapters in my first trip through. I'd hoped that Sanderson could do for Perrin what he did for Egwene (i.e., make the character interesting for me), but it was pretty much a failure. Perrin was perfectly in character, and such his chapters were only interesting due to the events taking place around him.

    If the characters were food items, Mat would be a banana split with loads of peanuts and chocolate syrup and gummie candies thrown on top. Rand would be a hearty deep dish pizza with a spicy sauce, loads of cheese, and tons of meat and veggies. And Perrin would be plain unsweetened oatmeal. Only interesting when mixed with something else.
  4. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    To the question over Asmodean, yes it is answered. But only tangentially in the book itself, it's spelt out at the back.
  5. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    Literally just got done reading the book! Did I finish before you RJ???????

    Wow just wow! I was floored, bored and pissed all rolled into one, but in a good way! Except of course the sheer lenght of Wolf/World Dream that bored the hell out of me everytime....

    About what Dingo said above that is pretty much where the pissed part comes in since it just so flung in there like it is no big deal... I expect details from the other perspective dammit!!!
  6. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    I'm not. Jordan had always wondered over the big fuss since he thought it was obvious who did it, and wasn't going to cover it again. I personally would have been more annoyed if Sanderson then went and made it a big deal. This way we get the final answer everyone has been after without having a specific "oh, by the way, HERE is the answer" scene thrown in.
  7. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    One thing that interests me right now is how Egwene will deal with Rand's intention to break the seals.

    The meeting that's about to start will feature Rand, Egwene, the kings and queens of Saldaea, Kandor, Arafel, Shienar, Arad Doman, Ghealdan, Illian, Tear, Cairhien, and Andor, the Steward of Emond's Fields, the Aiel clan chiefs and wise ones and the Sea Folk will almost certainly be there, the uncrowned queen of Malkier will be there, and I figure that it's almost certain that the Prince of Ravens will be there, and quite possibly the Seanchan Empress herself. I think that on Wheel of Time message boards, there's quite a few who seem to think that Egwene needs to convince Rand not to break the seals, that just as the pattern led to the Faithful Compact in the Age of the Legends that ensured in a backhanded way that women wouldn't be affected by the taint, this current meeting is the Pattern's way of trying to convince Rand to turn around and give up.

    I think it's pretty much the opposite. Right now, I can't see anyone backing Egwene's ideas other than the Aes Sedai. I think that the Borderlanders will understand quick and decisive action is necessary, and they've tied themselves to Rand now. The Aiel will follow Rand; they might have more trepidation than most with the plan, but they will follow. Illian and Tear and Arad Doman will follow without question I think, the latter two especially - they've seen first hand what JesusRand is like. Perrin has seen Rand's transformation, and he thinks that Rand's plan makes sense - he'll side with Rand. Mat, when he shows up, will understand that the war can't be protracted, and he'll be willing to side with his friend I think. Min, who might now be the foremost scholar of the Prophecies, is certain that breaking the seals is the way to go. And I can't imagine Elayne siding against Rand at the moment - she can feel the Light in him, and will follow.

    What that all means is that Egwene will stand alone. And it gets worse: Egwene has given the Hall the authority to conduct the war, while she has authority in the dealings with the Dragon. That little bargain isn't going to work out the way she expects, I suspect. The decision to break the seals is one regarding the conduct of the war, not one of dealing with Rand - it's purely a tactical and strategic decision. The Hall can and I suspect will side with Rand. Egwene is going to find herself arguing against the remaining assembled free peoples of the world.


    My main interest in speculating right now: how is the Dark One's prison to be resealed?
    -The seal itself can't be made with the One Power; that would result in the same problem as the Age of Legends (potential alternative: ALL of the one power is used, people in the Fourth Age don't have the ability to use the One Power; sealing the rip in the pattern also leads to lack of One Power available to use).
    -The Golum/Vader solution: a human soul is used as a patch. The Golum solution uses Fain (he pulls a Golum saves the world by accident while trying to kill Rand), the Vader solution uses Lanfear (she finally does a good thing, to save Rand). The Golum solution might also use Ishmael, and the much speculated Rand/Ishmael body swap.
    -The thing that can't be touched by power: Mat's fox head medallion might make an effective seal.
    -The Fearful Blade, Callandor creates the seal.
    -Perrin whips something up in the blacksmith shop.
    -The Ogier sing it shut.
  8. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Kinda figured the first one, Raven. Next Age has no One Power to use.

    Although I'm curious about the True Power as well.

    Wasn't the problem with the last Seals that Lews Therin wasn't linked with a female Aes Sedai?



    Perrin....initially a great side character. Both Jordan (and now Sanderson, I suppose) I think were mistaken in believing he would be a great main character. His storyline was agony for me for much of the last 5 books.

    And what really happened with Perrin over that time? Not a whole lot.

    I even think they shouldn't have focused as much on Mat; he is an enjoyable character, but you delve too much into his life and his marriage to Tuon and the series gets bogged down.


    I think only Rand and Egwene are complex enough characters to spend a great deal of time on, and even with Egwene it's a stretch sometimes.

    The fact that it's the 2nd last book in a 12 book series and half of it is spent dealing with Perrin's Quest to Man Up is almost laughable to me.

    I can't wait until someone takes the time to skim the fat off the 2nd half of this series and have a Fan Edit, although I suppose that's a huge undertaking.


    At any rate, I was at Costco and TOM was there for $20, so I sucked it up and bought it.
  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Given the history detailed in the guide where the female Aes Sedai basically refused to back Lews Therin which saw the results that defined the age for the next few millennia, it could be suspected that that theme of the female Aes Sedai, who for all their talk, arrogance and power, back down when push comes to shove in a real crisis that they cannot simply coerce their way out of, will continue to the final book but come to a head there. That it was disunity that killed the world last time, not Lews Therin and the hundred companions driven mad by a counterblast that they maybe could have been defended against with more support.

    But in this, I think it may be Moiraine who will play a decisive role because she went beyond the other Aes Sedai in perceiving what the future would demand of them, that it would require to actually live up to the ideals they invoke, to uphold freedom and abandon the control freakery that has too often defined them. In her letter to Rand she tells him he has to be free to save or damn the world as he will, that conviction requires a level of courage a good many Aes Sedai don't have.
  10. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Just finished.

    Wow. That... might have been the best book in the series yet, and that's saying a LOT. Absolutely loved it.

    I'll post more specific comments later :)
  11. ImpKnight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2008
    star 3
    Finished the book. I really liked it, but there were so many plot points that were barely touched on. AMOL is gonna be quite the book.
  12. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    There were also a ton of plot points closed or significantly advanced, though. Some of which had been hanging out there for more than half the series.
  13. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    Im just crossing my fingers that AMOL will hardly have any Wolf/World Dream sections.
  14. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    Jordan has said that if female Aes Sedai had assisted Lews Therin, both sides of the power would have been tainted rather than just one. The Pattern couldn't allow that, and the Faithful Compact that held female Aes Sedai from assisting Lews Therin was the method by which that eventually was prevented. The point that some people are making on the Wheel of Time boards is that if Egwene opposes Rand's plan to break the seals, then it must also be in accordance with the Pattern looking to preserve itself. I think the opposite is occurring - after Towers of Midnight, virtually every major force in the world will stand with Rand rather than Egwene on the issue, due to rekindled trust in Rand and the will of the Pattern.





    On a different note: I've gone back and started rereading the series from the start. I've never reread the entire series that way (the first time I read the series, it was in the bizarre order of 1, 4, 5, 6, 2, 3, 7, based on when the library was able to get them to me. Subsequent books were read as they came out, and I sometimes went back and reread some of the earlier books, usually focusing on one or two characters I liked and skipping the rest. I've never read the entire series to date from front to back.

    I'm currently 256 pages into The Eye of the World, and some of the foreshadowing is a hoot.
    "What kind of need would be great enough that we'd want the Dragon to save us from it? As well ask for help from the Dark One."
    -Rand al'Thor

    The thing that I couldn't help but thinking, rereading the early chapters of The Eye of the World, is just how much and how little the characters have changed. The bit with Mat and the badger made me smile a lot. Mat's a bit reluctantly wiser, and infinitely more dangerous than he was at the start of The Eye of the World, but his heart is the same. That thing with the badger... yep, he'd still do it. Egwene, from almost the moment she's introduced, is causing trouble for Rand and is setting herself against him. Perrin is quiet and determined to do the right thing. Nynaeve's passion and stubbornness and compassion come through. And Rand... from the very start, you can see him seeing deeper and further than the others from Emond's Field.

    There's something Rand says to describe himself in ToM, and I don't have my book on me at the moment, but he essentially says that he's more himself than he's ever been before. Rand, as he was at the start of The Eye of the World, feels similar to that Rand. He's not as wise, he's not as knowledgeable, he doesn't have the passion and anger and love of his future self, but the man he becomes is recognizably an older version of the man he was. If that makes sense.

    For me, the definite highlight though has been from the very start. To see what's become of the world, to see the Dark One stretching out and corrupting the world, to see so many g
  15. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I agree with you about Egwene vs. Rand.

    Certainly since whathisname the librarian (Fel?) and Min, something about his scribbled note "Dragon has to clear away the rubble before he can rebuild", talks about destroying the seals.
  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Ah, in that case Raven, there has to be more to whatever defence Rand is seeking than just combining the two powers, guess that'll be one of the big revelations of the next book. Thanks for the info by the way.
  17. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    While I don't remember the exact quote, basically what Jordan said about the sealing of the Bore is that whatever touches the Dark One is open to his counterstrike. Therefore, as I see it, the options are to a) mend the Pattern directly (i.e. sing it shut, regrow it, etc), or to put a patch in place that doesn't touch the One Power directly (Mat's medallion, a human soul, Fain's dagger, Callandor, etc). Another reason to suspect the Vader option for sealing the bore is that Lanfear is the person who originally opened it - she probably knows better than anyone what must be done to close it.


    In any case: continuing my reread, I have another awesome quote:
    "In any case, I do not think that all the Forsaken together could move a thousand Trollocs."
    -Moiraine

    Oh, how little they knew.
  18. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I'll have to go back and re-read my early WOT history (Age of Legends); I thought part of the flaw in Lews Therin's plan was that he didn't have saidar and a unified One Power. I always thought the implication was that he would seal The Bore with Callandor, guided by, say, Nynaeve and Elayne.
  19. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    We know Ny for sure, I would nt think Elanye since its hard to channel for her at times. Id say Egewne, Cads, or Moriane with her An geral.
  20. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Don't forget Aviendha as a possibility for the second woman.
  21. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    Ha she complety slipped my mind, thanks for that.
  22. ImpKnight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2008
    star 3
    Alivia is also a possilbility, but she doesn't seem like an important enough character to have such a key role.
  23. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    She is the Seanchan that is supposed to help him die correct?
  24. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Yeah, that's Alivia. I don't really see her being particularly likely for that position, though. It's possible, but unlikely.
  25. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    Man after that thriller of a book Im so upset that we have to wait till 2012! I want it now! I would even be happy to forsake the next Stormlight book or whichever he is doing next so we could get it sooner.