Amph [Wheel of Time] A Memory of Light (HTR spoilers allowed)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jek_Windu, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Actually, AMoL will be before the next Stormlight book. The tentative schedule is AMoL in March 2012, and Stormlight Archive book 2 in late 2012.

    Sanderson's said he needs to reread the series again before he really gets into finishing the series - its been too long now, and he doesn't want to forget stuff. I'd rather it come out a bit later and be the best book it can be instead of coming out a few months earlier but leaving stuff out or not be his best work.
  2. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I get what he's saying, but I find it odd that he would forget certain things he has to wrap up.

    How complete are Jordan's notes?



    I haven't had time to read much in the last few days, I've been too tired, but I'm enjoying the book. I agree with Pat from Pat's Fantasy Hotlist that he's mostly given up trying to sound like Jordan, or at least, less than in The Gathering Storm.

    Sometimes it's irritating because certain things the characters say or descriptions of events simply aren't in Jordan's style, and quite frankly, he's not as polished a writer as Jordan, IMHO.

    Then again, given the Hydra that he's dealing with, he's doing a fantastic job.
  3. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    As far as Jordans notes go, lets just say they are extensive? I was on Dragonmount shortly after he died and was reading some of his comments from interviews. He said that several books could be published on notes alone lol.
  4. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Yeah, Jordan's notes are supposed to be pretty extensive. Some chapters are even mostly Jordan, IIRC - though I got the impression those chapters were mostly TGS and AMoL, and not so frequent during "the middle chunk". But that doesn't mean rereading the series can't help a lot.
  5. Evil Incarnate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2003
    star 6
    Finished. I don't want to wait a whole year for the last book. :(

    Evil.
  6. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Closer to a year and a half :( AMoL is currently scheduled for March 2012 (though since the delay is to make sure we get the best book possible, I can't complain too much)
  7. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    I hope the time flys by, I want this story finished!

    Hey RJ you close to starting Gardens of the Moon yet?
  8. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Check the other thread. I started it yesterday ;) Haven't gotten very far yet, but still. Reading other stuff too :p
  9. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Well, this was certainly one of the better books in the last 6, probably the best except possibly for Knife of Dreams, simply because Sanderson can't truly write Jordan's world....not his fault though.

    This book finally wrapped so many of the plotlines that were out there for so bloody long. Blood and bloody ashes, burn me if it isn't true! So Sanderson had that going for him, most WOT fans are going to love the book because stuff actually happens. I thought that generally speaking, there wasn't a huge surprise, and most of the plotlines ended as I expected them to.

    Thoughts:



    - What was with the Aes Sedai and Asha'man who were "possessed" or whatever? That was strange. Was that people who had been forcibly turned to the Dark Side - is that what the effect is like?

    - God I'm so glad Perrin has come around, although the Slayer/Dreamland thing is getting a little tiring.

    - What was with the Bizarro Aiel at the end with red veils? I'm assuming these were Aiels, mostly channelers who went to fight the Blight and were corrupted? Not really sure why they even have to be in the novel.

    - the Aviendha chapters were incredibly depressing. The Seanchan eventually conquer all. Does Rand truly have to bow to the Crystal Throne? Is that a true prophecy or a Dark Prophecy? Didn't Ishmael have a strong influence in Seanchan, or am I imagining things? Is it going to come down to Mat and Aviendha convincing Rand not to surrender to Tuon?

    - one thing no one has mentioned so far: Aviendha, in one of her future dreams, mentioned the FOUR lines of the Dragon - Aviendha, Elayne and Min - I'm guessing the 4th is Cyndane/Mierin. That whole Mierin thing really came out of left field. Wonder if Mierin really is going to come back to the light. Or Lews Therin and Mierin somehow come together.

    - the Jesus Rand effect is pretty cool. Still not convinced Rand is actually going to FIGHT the Dark One in any way, it might be more like surrending or not giving in to temptation.

    - What is the True Power?

    - Is there a "good" version of the True Power? What does the True Power have to do with the One Power? Are both saidin and saidar inherently bad in some way because they come from the Dark One?

    - Can Rand use the power when he is Jesus Rand, or just when he is Darth Rand?


    What I'm irritated about is that most of what should be minor plotlines (Taim/the Black Tower, Elayne's bloody politicking about and talking about being pregnant[face_sick], etc.) still aren't wrapped up.

    I can almost see Sanderson (quelle suprise, say the cynical) needed another two books to finish the series. Much of the garbage that's left should have been cleaned out by now.

    I'm just afraid that the actual Last Battle part will be about 80 pages at the very end of the book.
  10. Scholomancer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2010
    I do want to add in that while I am looking forward to completing the WoT, I'm beginning to hate how "other people" will break up much-anticipated finales for their own interests. And I may be wrong, but I understood that Jordan's vision was to have the last book written as a single novel.

    Some people may argue that to "get the complete thoughts" of the original author in they have to break it up, but frankly I smell that some publishers or production companies are just eager to squeeze out the final drops of a much-anticipated finished series.

    Cases in point are the final Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallow pt. 1 and pt. 2 movies, the notes to DUNE 7 broken up into two novels by "Mr. McDune" himself Kevin J. Anderson, and of course the Wheel of Time. In the future I fully expect the final "Twilight" series to be broken up into two as well.

    I look forward to reading the conclusion to the Wheel of Time series, but I am actually going to wait until A Memory of Light comes out in 2012. Then I can get the complete picture in one "reading", the way I think the author intended.
  11. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Scholomancer, welcome to the boards! :)

    If you haven't seen this already, you should read Sanderson's comments on splitting AMoL. I was initially upset about it being split as well, but after reading Brandon's comments about it (mostly there, but also in a few other places) I didn't really have a problem with it. It really came down to either not doing the story justice and leaving entire storylines just hanging and cut out of the ending, having a book so big that physically could not be bound in normal format, or the solution they settled on with splitting the book up. Of the options, splitting it is far more preferable IMO.
  12. Scholomancer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Well.. call me cynical, but I find certain types of people can rationalize any method to make more money. ;)
  13. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Would you honestly rather have significant plotlines just cut out of the book and dropped just for the sake of condensing it to one book? Jordan wanted it as one book, yes, but that's when even he had little more than an outline (some parts written, but a pretty small portion) and probably before he realized just how much it was going to take to fully wrap the series up.

    Having a book too big for conventional binding really isn't an option. People would complain even more about the additional cost that would cause, along with making it impossible to have the final book match on the shelf, at least for anybody who collects the paperback copies.

    Consider this: TGS was over 1000 pages in paperback. ToM was longer than TGS, and it sounds like AMoL may well be longer still. 3000+ page mass market paperbacks just aren't possible.
  14. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    2 books I expected, 3 seems a little excessive, I agree
  15. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    While I see where you're coming from, I don't it's easy to make an honest argument that the last two books have been filler. Events have been moving at a fairly quick clip.
  16. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    If any books can be classified as filler, it would be 7, 9 and 10. Sanderson is actually getting things accomplished in his novels.
  17. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    And not to mention fast as hell...2 HUGE books in a yrs time. Jordan didnt do that since book 1&2 I believe?
  18. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    The first five came out fairly quickly, really. It was after that that things slowed down.


    I'm continuing my reread of the series. Things have been slow enough at work that I've been able to get reading done there, much to my pleasant surprise. First time in months things have slowed down. In any case, rereading the series has been fun so far. Verin was one of my favorite characters to begin with, but now knowing where her character was coming from and where she was going, it's been quite fun to look at how she plays people. Egwene was a character that increasingly irritated me as the series went on, and going back to the start, she's worse than ever. Nynaeve was a character that grew on me as the series continued; when I originally started reading the series I didn't care too much for her one way or another, but at this point I like her better than anyone but Min. Reading her from the start has actually increased my respect for the character.

    Which flows nicely into my next point. I just reached the part in The Shadow Rising where Nynaeve and Moghedien square off, and Nynaeve is terrified, expecting the Forsaken to suddenly throw her full might against her and crush her like an insect. And then Nynaeve realizes that Moghedien isn't holding back. Nynaeve, half-trained, is going toe-to-toe with a creature out of the world's darkest nightmares and she's holding her own. Up to that point, we'd seen the Green Man kill one Forsaken, Rand empowered by the Eye of the World would kill another, Ishamael was defeated by Rand three times in a row but Rand had massive power boosts in two cases and had a serious equalizing factor on his side the other case, and Moiraine killed Be'lal by being really sneaky. This is the first time in the series that one of the heroes matched themselves directly against one of the Forsaken and straight up held their own.

  19. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Eh, Nynaeve's gone the other direction for me. I used to like her but she just keeps on being irritating... now I really don't like her. Go figure :p
  20. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    Well about her....atleast now her damn hair was slice off! yay no more tugging.... lol
  21. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Could never stand Egwene, she's such a Mary sue it's almost Ahsoka-level ;) . It was probably the worst when she was training with the Wise Ones, and using some of their teachings whilst continuing her overall insufferable know-it-all attitude.

    Perrin was interesting for a while with his new marriage to Faile and then becoming a lord, but their plotline probably became the most annoying plotline I've ever read.

    Mat was a bit of a Mary Sue as well, but he's grown on me the last 4-5 books.

    Always liked Nynaeve. Moiraine was gone for too long and Cadsuane was a poor replacement.

    Rand I always found interesting but nothing interesting really happened to him for maybe 4 books.
  22. SoloKnight Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2003
    star 4
    Just finished it. It's been ages since I've read the earlier books, but from what I remember of them, I like Sanderson's books better than any of them except 1-4. Some thoughts/questions:

    -I expected Mat's rescue of Moraine to be the focus of the book, but in retrospect it didn't need to be any longer than it was.

    -I know Thom and Moraine's love was apparent once Mat watched Thom read her letter, but was it ever foreshadowed before that? Any of you guys doing a reread see it? Because for me that seemed to come out of left field.

    -Agree with everyone that Perrin is dull, though I did like seeing Galad again, the reveal of Morgase etc. It's kinda cool to see all the pieces start to line up for the final battle. Not just people but objects too. Mat's preparing to take the Horn again, Min's researching Callendar, etc.

    -Speaking of Galad, every time he was referred to as "Damodred", I kept mixing him up with "Demandred."

    -And speaking of Demandred, I'd have liked to have seen what he was up to. He's the only Forsaken we don't have accounted for, right?

    -Mat still seemed a little goofier than he was in the first 11 books, but I really liked him in this one. His letter to Elayne was awesome and I like that he realized Birgitte might be able to help him.

    -When we realize Aviendha was seeing the future in Rhuidean, I had a major Lost deja vu to where we realize the flash backs are actually flash forwards. Very cool, but hopefully the future can be changed.

    -Who was that woman Aviendha met on her way to Rhuidean?

    -What's up with those Not Aiel at the end?

    -And apparently who killed Asmodean was revealed and I completely missed it. Where was it mentioned?


    Overall, great read and I'm bummed at waiting over a year for the last one. Gives me time to finally do a re-read of the series though, I suppose.

  23. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    On the killer of Asmodean:

    Graendal is noted as having been involved in the deaths of three Forsaken. Aran'gar and Mesaana are obviously two, and the third has to be Asmodean. This is confirmed in the glossary in the back.
  24. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    No other comments on the 4 lines of the Dragon from Aviendha's viewing?
  25. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    I'm going back through and doing a slower read through of TGS (at the moment) and then ToM again... likely will go through some more detailed comments then.