Amph [Wheel of Time] A Memory of Light (HTR spoilers allowed)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jek_Windu, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Dingo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    I'm actually of the opinion that they are quadruplets that Rand conceives with Aviendha and thus are all Aiel.
  2. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    The POV chapters for Thom and Moiraine in the Stone hint at some mutual attraction, while in his conversations with Rand and Mat previous to that Thom expressed admiration for Moiraine.


    I remain convinced that he was the peddler in Lord of Chaos that tells Gawyn that his mother was killed by Rand, and that compulsion was used to reinforce the suggestion.


    My suspicion is that she's there because she's meant to be there. There are things that happen in the series that cannot be explained by the One Power; I think that that woman was one of them.




    My reread continues apace; I'm on the Path of Daggers now, and I can feel the pace of the series slowing down with every book. If there is one that is impressing me more this time around, it's Rand's descent into insanity. Read like this, the progression is quite well done. Both the overt (talking to a person in his head) and the real threat, with the Dark One cutting away at Rand's capacity for hope and compassion, through the Taint and through events.
  3. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

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    Jul 20, 2002
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    So, I finally finished the book a couple weeks ago, and I LOVED it (and the badger thing was really funny too). Seriously one of my favorite WoT books, possibly in part because plots are starting to get wrapped up (like Perrin accepting his wolf side, Morgause?s kids finding out she?s alive, Egwene and Gawyn getting together, etc.).

    I thought it didn?t overdo the detail while still adding lots. Plus, I really enjoyed Rand being sane again. I haven?t actually liked him for about half the series, so it?s nice to like him again. And I think he?s right about breaking the seals; hope he can convince Egwene to stand with him.

    I loved the humor, too. Mat?s letter was PRICELESS. Didn?t like so much that?as someone in here predicted?they spent very little time getting Moiraine out, and at it was the end. She and Thom were cute, though I?m sad about Noam (and Mat?s eye!). I?m really, really glad she?s back, though. I mean, I?m not TOO upset it didn?t take that long, because I hate things getting dragged out (Perrin Wolf Stuff, anyone?) but I guess I thought that with so much buildup (not to mention being the cover, though don?t judge a book by the cover etc.) that it would take longer. And I wanted her back sooner rather than later. I saw the Moiraine/Thom thing coming because of Thom?s reaction to the letter, but I was surprised to see it returned. It?s been way too long since I?ve read the earlier books.

    Loved Olver at the end suddenly being able to win?looks like he has Mat?s luck. I think Verin definitely miscalculated with the letter. She should have straight-out told him, or at least told him to wait less than a month, because Caemlyn?s in trouble, and it?s lucky Olver was nosy.

    I still don?t like the Aiel, but what else is new? I?m also not a big fan of Rand?s harem. I think he loves Min the most; just pick her and be done with it. I also think he?ll survive the Last Battle (Min?s predictions are never wrong, and she saw Aviendha?s kids, so he?ll have to knock her up tomorrow or survive). I?m not a huge fan of the Seanchean plotline?it feels like it?s taking away from the main thing, the Last Battle, especially since Aviendha?s vision shows them as the thing that destroys the world, not the LB.

    WHAT is up with the Lanfear thing? I?ve very curious about that.

    I wasn?t thrilled about Perrin for a bit, but he got better. The confusing thing was that because of the split, Perrin?s stuff for a while is actually further back in time than anyone else?s, so having Tam seeing rand again (and boy was that a cute scene) and then telling Perrin he needed to go see Rand was a bit odd. I don?t see a good way to do that (because the Perrin stuff needed to be in this one), but it was odd.

    Raven, the food comparisons are hilarious :D

    Also ? I didn?t read the back, and now I?ve returned my copy, and I STILL DON?T KNOW WHO KILLED BLOODY ASMODEAN!!! My theory is that Taim is one of the Forsaken (whatshisname who starts with a D and who RJ was wondering who he was disguised as when TGS came out) and did him in, but it?s literally been years since I?ve read that one and I can?t remember who was in Caemlyn.

    Dustin: ?Perrin?s Quest to Man Up? cracked me up, though I agree that it took too long and was kinda boring. My least favorite part of the book for sure. And I do think the second half of the series does have a lot of stuff that could go, and still keep the main plots and the enjoyability. Though I am interested in the Mat/Tuon relationship. Really can?t wait for a Rand/Mat/Perrin powwow.

    I want to see what?ll happen to Lan. For the last couple books I was like ?Duh, they?re not going to kill him off,? but the last bit made me wonder a little.

    I want the last book SO BADLY to see what happens, but at the same time . . . I don?t want this story to end. It?s huge and epic and I adore it, for all its downsides.

    I realize as a Sanderson fangirl I?m a tad biased, but I actually like him writing in Jordan?s world. Whether it?s because things are getting wrapped up or because I thought the second half of
  4. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Brief response to just part of that which caught my eye:

    Also ? I didn?t read the back, and now I?ve returned my copy, and I STILL DON?T KNOW WHO KILLED BLOODY ASMODEAN!!! My theory is that Taim is one of the Forsaken (whatshisname who starts with a D and who RJ was wondering who he was disguised as when TGS came out) and did him in, but it?s literally been years since I?ve read that one and I can?t remember who was in Caemlyn.

    Taim and Demandred? It makes perfect sense and was a popular opinion for a while... except that then Jordan stated multiple times publicly that Taim was most definitely NOT Demandred. So that's out.

    As for Asmodean: Graendal is noted during the text as having a role in the death/loss of Three Forsaken. Aran'gar and Mesaana are seen in ToM, but those were the only two clearly seen. The implication there was that Asmodean was the third. The glossary also states that a bit more clearly, and lists Asmodean directly.
  5. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

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    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    There goes my brilliant theory. I wonder who Taim is then - because he's certainly not a good guy.

    Ah, okay. That makes sense - I'll have to reread that bit.
  6. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    No, he's not a good guy. Almost certainly a darkfriend, but probably just that.

    There's also a point in one of the earlier books where someone (I forget who off the top of my head) mentions that he was told to do something by BOTH Taim and Demandred - one came to him with the orders, then the other came and did the same. Which wouldn't be proof against that, but was probably intended as evidence to them not being the same.
  7. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Yes, that was what finally killed the Taim=Demandred camp, although for the info we had, it certainly seemed like Taim was Demandred. So much about the characters were similar and it would explain Taim's abilities and survival....and dark side.

    So much of the series has become "mere puffery" or fluff in the last 6-7 books it's just nice to get some things done.

    My main problems with Egwene are (a) she is the ultimate Mary Sue in the series, and if she's right about the Seals and not Rand, I am going to throw up, and (b) she really comes across as condescending in a way the other characters don't.

    Did anyone else find the Perrin plot confusing in how exactly Galad/Whitecloaks get tied up with Perrin and the Forsaken setting the trap? I mostly just ignored the plot there because it really seemed irrelevant.

    Really feel that Jordan/Sanderson has left way too much for the last book: Rand/Lews Therin/Moridin, where is Demandred (we don't know and IT'S THE LAST BLOODY BOOK!!!), what is going to happen with Padan Fain/Mordeth, Perrin will kill Slayer but sweet zombie jesus are they playing that out, will Rand kneel to the Crystal Throne, what effect will Moiraine have on Rand at this point, since he's already Jesus Rand, what will happen with Lan and the Borderlands, what will happen with Elayne and Caemlyn. Plus we haven't even gotten to the Last Battle yet!!!!!! and then all signs point to the epilogue of the book being somewhat like the Scouring of the Shire in ROTK, where we look at Randland after the Last Battle.

    Obviously it's going to be an action-packed final novel, just seems like too much is being rushed for my taste.
  8. ImpKnight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2008
    star 3
    ^ My thoughts exactly. I don't think it can be done. Brandon Sanderson has said it wont be spit up again but he'll have to pull out a miracle on this one.
  9. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

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    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    I'm kind of worried. I'm hoping it means that there won't be a lot of useless fluff and people being pansies and there will be a lot of Getting Stuff Done. Even if it takes a thousand pages.
  10. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    From what I've heard, AMoL will be the longest of Sanderson's three, and possibly the longest of the series overall. Which is really saying something. But there's certainly more than enough to fill that up.

    (b) she really comes across as condescending in a way the other characters don't.

    Really? Nynaeve comes across as vastly more condescending than Egwene most of the time. She's also the ultimate in feminist superiority, of which there is plenty in the series. (Sure, there's quite a bit of male superiority attitudes as well, but not to the same extent).
  11. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

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    I'd actually peg Cadsuane more as that - (or at least, Nynaeve can do it and still be likable).
  12. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Oh, Cadsuane's definitely pretty condescending (making Rand's comments to her in ToM all the more awesome). She's not as blatantly obnoxious with the extreme sexism as Nynaeve, though. Of course, that might just because we still see more of Nynaeve.
  13. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    No, but with Nynaeve it's a part of her character that gets her in trouble, and she has grown and realized she's not the Village Wisdom anymore.

    Egwene, on the other hand, has been insufferable for about the last 7 books. At least.
  14. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    Regarding condescending attitudes in the Wheel of Time among women, I find Egwene the worst by far. For me, the kicker comes in Towers of Midnight, where she has her meeting with Rand and thinks about how the White Tower can control him. Because trying to control Rand has worked out well for everyone else who's tried to control him one way or another. The only Aes Sedai who've had a meaningful impact on Rand's policies have been Moiraine, Nynaeve, and Cadsuane. Moiraine only became able to advise Rand to any effect when she swore to put his interests ahead of those of the White Tower. Cadsuane's goals were not to try to control Rand, but to try to keep him on the right side. Nynaeve was always looking out for Rand's interests ahead of those of the Tower.

    Nynaeve was bad early on for being condescending; I found that the transition point for her was after Elayne made her apologize to Mat. After that point Nynaeve isn't really that bad; she transitions to being one of the most accepting and balanced characters in the series. Cadsuane has had a life of being the smartest and wisest person in the room, as well as the most strong-willed and most powerful. And her life has been over three hundred years long. Old habits are hard to break, and to no small extent the way she acts around Rand prior to Towers of Midnight is a deliberate way of trying to keep control of her situation regarding Rand; she knows better than to try to control Rand, but she wants to try to keep Rand from making mistakes (like losing his reasons to fight the Shadow and instead trying to destroy the world - that'd be a mistake). Cadsuane


    As I see it, the things that need to happen are: the Field of Merrilor, Lan's charge against the Shadow, the breaking of the Black Tower, Mat getting the Horn of Valere, the Seanchan assault on the White Tower, the breaking of the Seals, the Last Battle, and Elayne/Min/Aviendha taking Rand's body across some body of water. Some of this can happen off-screen: for example, the Black Tower's breaking doesn't need any more screen time than the White Tower's breaking.

    My projected timeline for A Memory of Light:
    -Prologue shows the peasant army arriving at the Fields of Merrilor, as the major powers arrive. We see various minor characters from the rest of the series gathered to fight the Shadow. The prologue moves on to show Moridin putting a Soul Trap on Graendal, Naeff rescuing Logain with the help of other Asha'man and Aes Sedai and the battle for the Black Tower starting, and Fain arriving Shayol Ghul.

    -The initial third of the book will cover the meeting at the Fields of Merrilor, reunions between the main characters and such. Mat will go to Tar Valon to get the Horn, and be there when the Seanchan attack. Someone will leash Moiraine, Mat will pull rank and go straight to Tuon, and get Moiraine unleashed. Mat will convince her that they need to fight the Shadow, and to go to the Fields of Merrilor. Aviendha arrives, and sleeps with Rand.

    -At the fields, we'll see the major reunions, Rand will make his demands for a peace between all the major powers (including the Seanchan and Aiel), and Egwene will threaten Rand. Egwene will be somewhat lost and confused when all the major powers support Rand, rather than the White Tower. Rand will insist that Mat be given
  15. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

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    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    Hmm, very interesting theory. I can see all that happening.


    One thing I've been thinking about in regards to Aviendha's visions - the ones with her kids and garndkids aren't too far distant in the future - what, 20-ish years for her daughter? - but she's dead, and with her granddag=ughter, so is Elayne. And yet, assuming they die natural deaths, the two of them are going to live a damn long time with their power.
  16. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    They certainly have spent quite a bit of time (in limbo, really) dealing with the Black Tower, for no purpose so far.
  17. tjace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2008
    star 4
    I got the book for Christmas and just finished it.

    I was disappointed that the Tower of Ghenjei stuff was put off to the end of the book. I mean, that was the main plotline being advertised. Other than that, it was pretty good. The gender politics didn't interfere as much in this book, and all the misunderstandings (like Gawyn wanting revenge on Rand and Elayne calling Perrin a traitor) start to get cleared up. Egwene was a bit irritating, still trying to oppose Rand, but the way he is now I don't think she could cause any trouble for him.

    Apparently most people here didn't like the Perrin plotline, but while I agree it dragged a bit in the past few books, he actually had some character growth and I thought all the battles in Telaranrhiod were pretty cool (I mean, he stopped Mesaana's balefire. How awesome is that?!?!?!). It was good to see Rand act as "Jesus Rand", as others have put it. I just wish he had dealt with the Black Tower (and the other dreamspike that Taim no doubt has) in this book, it seemed like they were building towards that but now he's bypassed that for his big meeting. Speaking of that meeting (in the fields of Merrilor), I figure that that is where Rand is going to start to put his "Peace of the Dragon" together (as Avhienda's vision called it). The random invasion of Caemlyn at the end was pretty random, I have no idea where they're going with that.


    Anyway, it's really late, so I'm going to stop rambling for now. Awesome book, 2012 is so far away...
  18. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

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    The invasion of Camelyn is definitely making me wonder. And I'm wondering how much that's going to draw away from the big meeting.
  19. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

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    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    It seems to random to me though. Why would The Dark Lord commit his troops to Caemlyn this late in the game? It seems way out of the way and quite a stupid move to me. Commit the majority of our forces for defense since he knows Rand has to go to SG to fight him. Of course he should keep reserves to have flanking forces but why go to Caemlyn NOW? I know that they could "Travel" right back out to come back to SG or flank from behind but it just seems like a pointless plot arc this late in the saga to me.
  20. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Don't forget that Trollocs can't travel by Gateway. They can go through the Ways, but Traveling won't work for them. Remember the Deathgates?
  21. tjace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2008
    star 4
    Well, the force he committed to attacking Maradon was probably about the same size, as in he can spare it. Besides, messing up one of the strongest nations opposing him is worth several thousand Trollocs. The strength of the Dark One's armies is not just the sheer numbers of it, he has many other, better weapons that he is no doubt saving for the last battle.
  22. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

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    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    Lol actually I dont. Ive read through the series twice to....
  23. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

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    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    I think it was in Knife of Dreams... Rand (and company) in big mansion, Trollocs and other Shadowspawn attack, Rand tries to seize the source but Lews Therin gains control and starts spouting off new weaves... Deathgates (gateways for traveling that constantly spin open and closed, sending Trollocs (and pieces of Trollocs) to random places - though Rand notes then that they can't survive going through a gateway to begin with, so it doesn't matter if they pass through whole or not - and a couple others... fire from his fingertips (forget what the name of that one is) and one called Blossoms of Fire, IIRC.

    It's a pretty sweet scene.
  24. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    Sanderson has of today offically started working on AMoL!! He said today on his blog.
  25. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

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    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I think the point of the Trollocs attacking Camelyn is to capture Elayne. Anger Rand or draw him out into a stupid confrontation.

    Or else it's simply hitting from a spot that the enemy doesn't expect.

    Wonder how Verin knew it was coming though.