main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST When did Kylo realise Rey was Force sensitive?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by nonesuch, Feb 16, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. nonesuch

    nonesuch Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2015
    I think there are two possible answers to this:

    1. He realised as soon as he first came into contact with her, either detecting her FS when he first entered her mind on Takodana or realising she was the FS girl he had dropped off on Jakku many years prior.
    2. He only realised she was FS when she turned the tables on him and entered his mind during the interrogation.

    I think most people would be inclined to say that the correct answer to this is #2, since that's the 'big' moment and Kylo is very clearly startled and taken aback by Rey's mental invasion. However, I don't think that takes into account the "don't be afraid, I feel it too" line - Kylo says that with no surprise or shock and seems almost as if he is confiding in her. While he isn't explicit about what he's referring to, I don't see how it could be a reference to anything other than Rey's Force sensitivity. What else could Kylo be 'feeling' that Rey was feeling in that scene? I see no reason for him to identify with her fear or distress, but I see every reason for him to identify with her power and potential in the Force (given his strange affinity with her).

    I'm curious to see what people make of this, since I think it's potentially very significant. Let me know your thoughts!
     
  2. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Well... according to Pablo Higaldo, it was when the light saber flew to her hand instead of his...
     
  3. AmySolo

    AmySolo Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2016
    He literally says "she's strong with the force, stronger than she knows" long before that. o_O

    I'm going with the moment she reads his mind. The look on his face says as much.

    Also, can we not act like him being the one who left her is canon, please. :rolleyes:
     
  4. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2004
    That's why I take everything he tweets or "declares" with a big grain of salt. I think it's #2 since he declares it to Snoke moments later.
    This.
     
  5. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    What would GL say?
     
    Enkei likes this.
  6. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Belive me, I don't believe a single ounce of what Pablo said... but he did say that "It is you" from novelization refers to Kylo acknowledging Rey as the awakening of the Force he felt earlier.

    ETA: sorry, I wasn't calling Pablo a dumbass, but Kylo. The girl read his mind and he didn't notice she was FS? Anyway, sorry.

    Mod edit: Unnecessary
     
  7. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Come on, Pablo. Watch the movie. :p
     
  8. AmySolo

    AmySolo Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2016
    We have no actual evidence why he says that to her. It could be that as easily as it could be she is someone from his past.

    I don't mind speculation. I do mind speculation being treated as fact.
     
    Jedi Merkurian , turnip white and EHT like this.
  9. RobbyV

    RobbyV Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015

    Realizing that Rey was the awakening he and Snoke felt is not the same as realizing that she was Force sensitive. The guy you don't believe is in charge of maintaining canon across all Star Wars film and literature, so maybe a tiny ounce of respect may be in order.


    I think it was #2, but maybe he already was suspecting by #1 but couldn't say for sure.

    I think the "I feel it too line" simply meant that he was also feeling the pain Rey was feeling with the mind-read.
     
    Mana, rowan_greenleaf and AmySolo like this.
  10. nonesuch

    nonesuch Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2015
    That's definitely a legitimate interpretation, but it seems unlikely to me, mainly because it would seem deeply uncharacteristic of Kylo for him to straightforwardly identify with Rey's fear/pain - in doing so he would make himself seem weak and vulnerable. It's also worth remembering that Rey's capture follows immediately on from Rey's "first steps" moment in the Forceback, where she was truly introduced to her potential destiny and Force sensitivity for the first time. I think that the fear Kylo picks up on is that fear specifically (i.e. the fear brought about by her new awareness of the Force) - he tells her not to be afraid of it because it's something he himself has mastered, but he can identify with Rey's predicament because he was once there himself.

    It's just a theory, but it's what makes the most sense to me. I think Rey's ability to use her latent Force powers was what shocked him at the culmination of her interrogation, rather than the simple fact of her FS.
     
  11. AmySolo

    AmySolo Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2016
    To build on this, isn't it a dark side power to dive into the mind? Or at the very least what she might be feeling is the dark side in him? Based on Maz' words we know she is full of light (even if she might tap the dark side without realizing it.)
     
  12. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    I edited my post to clarify that I wasn't calling Pablo a dumbass, just Kylo, who apparently didn't realise Rey was FS when she read his mind.

    So how does recognizing she is FS and acknowledging her as the awakening differ from each other, in practical terms? Why was the former motivated by her entering his mind and the latter by the light saber "choosing" her?
     
  13. RobbyV

    RobbyV Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Well, not believing an unambiguous answer from the guy who maintains canon is a form of disrespect.

    First, we don't really know much more about "awakenings" in general, other than in TFA it was felt by Kylo and Snoke and that it was Rey's. Second, I didn't get the feeling that Snoke was a dumbass, and he also didn't think Rey was the awakening.

    Having said that...

    Kylo and Snoke always pejoratively called her a scavenger. They're so dismissive of her that they never even bothered to find out her name. Obviously they looked down on her. And so it's this prejudice that keeps Kylo from realizing that the scavenger actually beat his mind-read. Most probably he thinks she just got lucky -- don't we all react that way when someone beats us the first time over something we're very good at? But then when she escapes the interrogation room then later beats him in grabbing the saber, then he realizes this was no lucky girl.

    To me this actually implies two things. First -- that you don't automatically associate awakenings with the first new FS you run into. Meaning there are many FS's in the galaxy and who's to say that the awakening they felt was Rey's? For all they knew Rey could've awakened a month, a year, or five years ago. Second -- and I think more importantly -- it implies that the "awakening" Kylo and Snoke felt is something rare and special. Perhaps it's something felt only when someone of much greater Force-sensitivity than normal wakes up, so to speak -- which is why it was only in Rey's repeated demonstration of superiority that makes Kylo realize this. You beat me once, you're an FS who got lucky. You beat me twice (by escaping the interrogation room) that's the guard's fault. You beat me three times in a row by grabbing the symbol to my birthright -- well then, "it is you."
     
    turnip white likes this.
  14. Dagobah Dragonsnake

    Dagobah Dragonsnake Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Perhaps Pablo Hidalgo was referring to the point where Kylo Ren knew Rey was able to effectively use the Force: For me it is very clear, with the moment of realization expressly discussed by Kylo Ren and Snoke, where Snoke seems a bit taken aback that "the scavenger - this girl - resisted" him. Kylo a first tries to blow it off by saying that a scavenger is all she is from the inconsequential Jakku, He continues that she is completely untrained but "... strong with the Force ... stronger than she knows." Since Kylo seems to be taken aback at the interrogation when Rey pushes back and enters his thoughts, and the later dialog between Snoke and Kylo with Kylo stating she is strong with the force and stronger than she knows, it seems to me the moment is during the interrogation.
     
    rowan_greenleaf likes this.
  15. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    He looked it up on Wookepedia.
     
    Rellum Kire likes this.
  16. Storm_Cloud

    Storm_Cloud Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Tweets aren't sent under oath.
     
    AmySolo likes this.
  17. rowan_greenleaf

    rowan_greenleaf Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2015

    To me the likely answer is neither option 1 or 2. I think Ren knew OF Rey prior to actually encountering her in Takodana; I'm inclined to think that he had picked up on her presence in the Force before knowing anything about her. To me that explains the "What.GIRL?" flip out and his obvious interest in "the girl" without there having been an actual prior meeting between them. So if Ren thought Rey was the girl he'd felt in the Force, he may have known her to be Force sensitive even before entering her mind in Takodana. (Although strictly speaking he would have confirmed it in that moment, so I guess I'd choose option 1 if I had to pick between them, lol.)

    I do think that he obviously didn't realize she was a force to be reckoned with until she invaded his mind during the interrogation, and he didn't know just how powerful in the Force she could be until she pulled the lightsaber. It's just one shock after another for poor Kylo Ren when it comes to Rey. XD

    Re: the bolded, I don't think when he said "don't be afraid, I feel it too" he had to have been talking about her Force sensitivity necessarily. He may have been talking about how weird/strange/distinctive it felt to have their minds touching like that.

    He may have been talking about her fear, letting her know that he was aware of it because he was in her head and could literally feel it. That's less likely, but still possible.
     
    rumblewagon likes this.
  18. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    When she read his mind about his fear of never becoming as strong as Vader was.

    Regardless of any previous indications there might have been before hand, this was truly his "oh ****" moment.
     
    AmySolo likes this.
  19. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Well... I was under the impression that Snoke and Kylo thought they had exterminated all FS people from the galaxy after the massacre at Luke's academy, so any unknown person they happened to find after the awakening was likely to be the one.

    But good points.
     
  20. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    When she was able to resist his mind probe, and even turn it back around on him. Seems pretty obvious to me. Someone should inform Pablo Hidalgo, if he's unaware of this, that Kylo calls her "strong with The Force" BEFORE the final duel. I DON'T think, at least from what the film gives us, that he recognized it on Takonada. He treats her like some random scavenger girl who'd made herself a nuisance to him/The FO somehow. A curiosity, but not all that formidable.

    Also Snoke IMMEDATELY wants her brought before him after hearing about that, which is even more telling imo. And also, I've seen the movie five times and yet I still don't recall Kylo ever saying "it is you" in the film itself. If I just missed it, then someone let me know.
     
    AmySolo likes this.
  21. Jakku

    Jakku Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    No, he doesn't. It's in the novelisation. In the film, he just gawps at her, dumbfounded.
     
  22. WookieDance

    WookieDance Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2015
    I think Kylo knew pretty early on, at least before the interrogation. Especially in the novel, he seems to sense something about Rey. In my opinion it was only after mind probing her that Kylo realized how powerful Rey was, and the threat she could be.
    But, when Rey force grabbed the lightsaber? Eh, Pablo might want to get his memory checked.
     
  23. Forceuser707

    Forceuser707 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Well. There's about a minute or so between him saying that line and then having his own mind read. Not much of a difference really and you have your answer: #2.
     
  24. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    I always took that line to mean the idea that their minds were "connected" by his using The Force, and the pain/discomfort that can come from using it in that way.
     
    AmySolo likes this.
  25. nonesuch

    nonesuch Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2015

    While it's a small difference in terms of the time between the moments, I think there's a big difference in terms of how he responds. There is no shock or surprise evident when he says "I feel it too" but he's clearly deeply alarmed and troubled when she invades his own mind. If he was referring to her FS with "I feel it too", then the first moment indicates that her FS didn't surprise him, which seems very strange and potentially significant.

    Since most people seem to think #2 is the correct answer, I have another question - what do you think Kylo was referring to when he said "I feel it too"? Some people have suggested interesting answers, but I'm keen to gauge the spectrum of opinion.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.