when did vader turn?

There were little moments when the good was creeping back into his bitter soul. Probably it began during the end of Empire when he didn't kill Piett after the Falcon escaped.

But the real choice was given when Luke was being zapped. It's the same as in Sith when Palpatine was zapping Mace and said, "You must choose!" Anakin made the wrong choice then, and it cost him his soul. The second time he had to choose the same thing was happening, only now it was his son being zapped. This time he made the right choice and redeemed his soul.

 

I think Vader started to turn when he saw Luke go....I think he saw a glimse of himself in his son, and then killed vader himself coming back to the LITE again in ROTJ

 

Very interesting observation I like that. Piett did have that "Oh $#!^" look on his face didn't he? He knew what was comming, and Vader didn't respond in his normal fashion. I always thought it was for other reasons, but now in this perspective, I am in agreeance. Good job RK_Striker_JK_5.

 

I very much disagree. There is a Big differance between the two. Anakin's decision was selfish, based on a possesive greed. It wasn't really about Padmé, it was about Anakin. He even admited it to Palpatine: "Help me save Padmé's life. *I* can't live without her".

In ROTJ, however, he selflessly gave his own life out of compasssion to save his son, with no regard to his own well-being. As Lucas once said, children teach you compassion, to love unconditionaly (sp?). I would say that Vader learned his lesson.

As for the orginal question: Vader begun to falter in his evil ways as early as the end of Empire, but the ultimate turn did not come until he saved Luke. Before then he was still in denial ("there is no conflict").

 

I don't see this at all. What leads you to believe that he "turned back"? Nothing he does is out of character for either a Sith lord or, like stated above, Anakin and his do-anything-for-love mentality.

I think you want him to "be good", so you're just projecting.

 

Vader isn't exactly stupid. You can't tell me that he didn't know the lightning was gonna go straight into his suit. Maybee he thought he could survive, but it's a way to big a risk to take if you're in it for power. Which leads me to think that he didn't care if he would live or die, saving Luke was the most important thing. I haven't seen anything in Revenge of the Sith that even remotely convinces me that Anakin would give his life for Padmé, since his whole purpose for saving her was to keep her from leaving him in the first place. Takeing others lives, sure, but not his own.

 

And that proves he turned how? All that does is reenforce the idea that he would never willingly give his life. If he wouldn't do it for Padme, his Wife, then he sure wouldn't do it for some kid he just met and doesn't even know.

And no, I don't think he knew the lightning would arc back. Who could guess that Palpatine would just keep on spewing it. One would ligically think the shock of Vader's actions would have made him stop.

And it just occured to me; The last time we saw Palpatine go all frenzied with the lightning was against Mace. During that event, he was expending a whole lot of power and was very obviously weakened. Same thing here. Vader saw that the Emperor was entering a weakened state, and took advantage of that. Nothing more.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I still think he sacrificed himself.

 

yeah...

 

yeah I feel yah. He wanted the power not just for Padme, but for hhim, but he changed!!

 

I really think the conflict began when he cut off Luke's hand. Like Luke in ROTJ, just following a deep rage, he gained a bit of clarity upon doing something terrible. Part of him couldn't believe he had just done that to his son, and the conflict snuck in. And this was also when he took a more sympathetic tone. Revealing to Luke that he was his father and basically saying that he wanted him by his side, even if that desire was still tinted with evil and power lust. And of course this would be the conflict Luke first feels in his father... a point where Luke was totally at his mercy, and Vader suddenly had absolutlely no intention of hurting him further.

 

DS615

I would agree with you if it wasn't for one thing.
Vader tells Luke before he dies:
"You were right about me. Tell your sister... you were right"

What could he be talking about if not the fact that there was still good inside him?

 

^ Well said.

Vader as others have said was conflicted by the meeting in Endor and did not fully turn until Palps lightning show on Luke.

I do not buy the fact that Vader had turned the time of his showdown with Luke in ESB. Vader wanted Luke to join him, thats hardly him turning to the goodside. And as for sparring Piett, he just had more important things on his mind. At no time does Vader show any good in him by the end of ESB. "Luke it is your destiny". Yeah destiny for Luke to join him in Vader's mind not him turn to the lightside. The turn definately happened in ROTJ IMO.

 

Clearly he did not actually turn until just before he turned to attack the Emperor.
But, the real conflict definitely began in TESB (likely, there was always conflict deep within Vader. But it probably rushed closer to the surface than ever before at the end of TESB). Luke sensed it back then, and he mentioned so to Obi-Wan, Leia, and then Vader himself. Whatever goodness he felt in Vader on Bespin drove him throughout ROTJ to bring that goodness all the way out. And his insight was validated "You were right. You were right about me."

 

I agree............I think that the turn was very gradual over a long period of time, starting late in ESB. The final scene when he doesn't kill Piett, is an indication that the 100% evil Darth Vader's thougths are someplace else...........

 

Vader started turning after he struck down Kenobi in ANH...that duel was AWESOME!!!

 

i think it was more when palptine was using the force lighting on luke then vader (more of anakin now) killed palptine

 

As others have suggested, I believe that it began in TESB. I don't think Vader realized what saying "I am your father" really meant to him. He was telling Luke that he was his father, but he was also telling himself that he was the father of Anakin Skywalker's son. What does that mean? It means that he is Anakin Skywalker. Up until this moment, he had viewed Anakin Skywalker as a thing of the past. That man was long since dead and from his ashes, Darth Vader had risen.
In ROTJ, he tried to forget once again: "That name no longer has any meaning for me". But it did have meaning for him. It was the name of the father of Luke, his own son, who was standing right in front of him. The past had caught up with him. Or rather, by pursuing Luke and telling him the truth, he had caught up with the past. Unwillingly? I don't think so. Vader longed for the past. He longed for a time when he was happily married and looked to the future with hope in his heart. He longed for a family. A family that he had thought was lost forever. When he learned the name of Luke Skywalker, he knew that, in spite of all the darkness, there was still a ray of hope.
What Vader did not count on was that his revelation to Luke would make him realize the truth - that Anakin Skywalker was not dead. He may have sold his soul to the devil, he may have chosen to forget the past and don a new identity, but that would never change who he was - who he was born to be.
The real turn happened when he killed Palpatine, though, but the catalyst for it was "I am your father".





Vader - he wants a time machine
/Flames